Going to basics -What supplements have shown positive results?
viren19890
Posts: 778 Member
Hello,
Just wondering -what supplements have shown positive results (if any?) I have zero knowledge on the subject. So laymen terms would be helpful.
Nitric oxide? Arginine Alpha , Agmatine Sulfate , Citrulline malate ?
Creatine (hydrocholride, Ethyl Ester , Kre-Alkalyn Creatine , monohydrate)
Beta -Alanine ?
Caffeine capsules, highly branched Cyclic Dextrin , L-Arginine
I know some of them *have shown results* but I'm talking on the subject of worthiness -money to worth ratio.
I'm currently in a caloric deficit and only thing I take is creatine mono 5 grams a day (people say it's not enough because for it to even reach cells you need 10-15 grams a day for those 5 grams to get absorbed by cells) Whey protein.
That's it. So many things out of the market claiming a lot of things. Should I always keep my eyes and ears closed or is there any weight to their claims. What have you guys trieD?
Just wondering -what supplements have shown positive results (if any?) I have zero knowledge on the subject. So laymen terms would be helpful.
Nitric oxide? Arginine Alpha , Agmatine Sulfate , Citrulline malate ?
Creatine (hydrocholride, Ethyl Ester , Kre-Alkalyn Creatine , monohydrate)
Beta -Alanine ?
Caffeine capsules, highly branched Cyclic Dextrin , L-Arginine
I know some of them *have shown results* but I'm talking on the subject of worthiness -money to worth ratio.
I'm currently in a caloric deficit and only thing I take is creatine mono 5 grams a day (people say it's not enough because for it to even reach cells you need 10-15 grams a day for those 5 grams to get absorbed by cells) Whey protein.
That's it. So many things out of the market claiming a lot of things. Should I always keep my eyes and ears closed or is there any weight to their claims. What have you guys trieD?
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Replies
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Not only do supplements not have results, for even something as simple as a multi vitamin, the correlation to higher cancers rates is significant. Probably because people who supplement are usually looking for short cuts.
Try eating food and drinking water.0 -
Creatine has a decent record at improving lifting performance.0
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Supplements are the "basics" now? I would have thought calories, then macros, then food quality maybe...then supplements way at the top of the ladder after like...nutrient timing.
Edited because I can't spell or type.0 -
concordancia wrote: »Not only do supplements not have results, for even something as simple as a multi vitamin, the correlation to higher cancers rates is significant. Probably because people who supplement are usually looking for short cuts.
Try eating food and drinking water.
I would not agree with your statement as an absolute. There are certain supplements that have been well studied and have shown positive results. So while I will agree that food and food choices have the greatest impact and should be the items most concentrated on, saying "supplements not have results", does not hold with scientific evidence gathered so far.
OP, as an opinion and reflecting some of the choices some researchers like Brad Shoenfeld, Eric Helms, Lyle MdDonald, etc.. have mentioned in many of their blogs, papers, podcasts, etc... Creatine Monohydrate, as you mentioned, is fine. Once the body is saturated, about 5 grams a day will keep muscle saturation needed. Caffeine as needed for stimulant is proven. Protein powder as needed for supplementation if daily protein needs aren't being met through whole food sources. A mult-vitamin might be prudent if you are in caloric deficit, thus you are not meeting your "maintenance" level of micro nutrients. Fish oil, as most people don't eat enough fish.
www.examine.com is a good reference for these and many others, but realize, that in the grand scheme of things, supplements might only account for about 5% (going off of reference material by Eric Helms and Dr. Mike Israetel who both have come up with importance independently) impact on your body composition.0 -
concordancia wrote: »Not only do supplements not have results, for even something as simple as a multi vitamin, the correlation to higher cancers rates is significant. Probably because people who supplement are usually looking for short cuts.
Try eating food and drinking water.
I would not agree with your statement as an absolute. There are certain supplements that have been well studied and have shown positive results. So while I will agree that food and food choices have the greatest impact and should be the items most concentrated on, saying "supplements not have results", does not hold with scientific evidence gathered so far.
OP, as an opinion and reflecting some of the choices some researchers like Brad Shoenfeld, Eric Helms, Lyle MdDonald, etc.. have mentioned in many of their blogs, papers, podcasts, etc... Creatine Monohydrate, as you mentioned, is fine. Once the body is saturated, about 5 grams a day will keep muscle saturation needed. Caffeine as needed for stimulant is proven. Protein powder as needed for supplementation if daily protein needs aren't being met through whole food sources. A mult-vitamin might be prudent if you are in caloric deficit, thus you are not meeting your "maintenance" level of micro nutrients. Fish oil, as most people don't eat enough fish.
www.examine.com is a good reference for these and many others, but realize, that in the grand scheme of things, supplements might only account for up to 5% (going off of reference material by Eric Helms and Dr. Mike Israetel who both have come up with importance independently) impact on your body composition.
thanks I'll check it out. LoL the description on boxes seems so enticing- like oh damn! muscle pump and blah blah -they do a damn good job at marketing.0 -
arditarose wrote: »Supplements are the "basics" now? I would have thought calories, then macros, then food quality maybe...then supplements way at the top of the ladder after like...nutrient timing.
Edited because I can't spell or type.
By basic -I meant as in -nothing fancy-simple supplements that work. Those above mentioned are basic supplements which are added in fancy brands to make a whole package. So by basic I meant- taken them individually without additional products with them lol0 -
concordancia wrote: »Not only do supplements not have results, for even something as simple as a multi vitamin, the correlation to higher cancers rates is significant. Probably because people who supplement are usually looking for short cuts.
Try eating food and drinking water.
I would not agree with your statement as an absolute. There are certain supplements that have been well studied and have shown positive results. So while I will agree that food and food choices have the greatest impact and should be the items most concentrated on, saying "supplements not have results", does not hold with scientific evidence gathered so far.
OP, as an opinion and reflecting some of the choices some researchers like Brad Shoenfeld, Eric Helms, Lyle MdDonald, etc.. have mentioned in many of their blogs, papers, podcasts, etc... Creatine Monohydrate, as you mentioned, is fine. Once the body is saturated, about 5 grams a day will keep muscle saturation needed. Caffeine as needed for stimulant is proven. Protein powder as needed for supplementation if daily protein needs aren't being met through whole food sources. A mult-vitamin might be prudent if you are in caloric deficit, thus you are not meeting your "maintenance" level of micro nutrients. Fish oil, as most people don't eat enough fish.
www.examine.com is a good reference for these and many others, but realize, that in the grand scheme of things, supplements might only account for about 5% (going off of reference material by Eric Helms and Dr. Mike Israetel who both have come up with importance independently) impact on your body composition.
Love this. I just listened to both Eric Helms and Dr. Israetel talk about this recently.
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viren19890 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »Supplements are the "basics" now? I would have thought calories, then macros, then food quality maybe...then supplements way at the top of the ladder after like...nutrient timing.
Edited because I can't spell or type.
By basic -I meant as in -nothing fancy-simple supplements that work. Those above mentioned are basic supplements which are added in fancy brands to make a whole package. So by basic I meant- taken them individually without additional products with them lol
Ha. Okay...just sounded funny.0 -
I'm assuming you mean for things other than weight loss, like lifting performance or health?
Examine.com is my go-to source for that question.0 -
Just checked out the website DAMN!
I didn't know creatine had such benefits. I never did a loading phase so I'll be getting the lowest of lowest results possible and I don't have enough left to do a loading phase.
I'll be ordering more but I'll order the type which doesn't require loading phase to avoid that.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »Just checked out the website DAMN!
I didn't know creatine had such benefits. I never did a loading phase so I'll be getting the lowest of lowest results possible and I don't have enough left to do a loading phase.
I'll be ordering more but I'll order the type which doesn't require loading phase to avoid that.
Type? You only need Creatine Monohydrate, all other variants are expensive marketing hype and less effective in most cases. You can load Creatine if you want (some people have gastro-intestinal issues with the recommended doses to achieve this), but just taking 5g a day will eventually get you to saturation. Creatine Monohydrate costs about $.02/gram. If you are spending more than this, you need to shop somewhere else.
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I've used all of the supplements mentioned in the original post as creatine is by far the most effective. It's worth noting that there are some people who are non-responders when it comes to creatine supplementation. The problem is that many people miss days taking creatine or aren't taking it at appropriate times, don't see the effects they're expecting and then they assume it doesn't work. If you're looking to avoid any "loading phase" or excess water retention you might want to try creatine HCL (hydrochloride). I've recently switched from mono hydrate to HCL and I've noticed equal gains in strength but far less water retention.0
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viren19890 wrote: »Just checked out the website DAMN!
I didn't know creatine had such benefits. I never did a loading phase so I'll be getting the lowest of lowest results possible and I don't have enough left to do a loading phase.
I'll be ordering more but I'll order the type which doesn't require loading phase to avoid that.
Type? You only need Creatine Monohydrate, all other variants are expensive marketing hype and less effective in most cases. You can load Creatine if you want (some people have gastro-intestinal issues with the recommended doses to achieve this), but just taking 5g a day will eventually get you to saturation. Creatine Monohydrate costs about $.02/gram. If you are spending more than this, you need to shop somewhere else.
Yeah there is one called Creatine hydrochloride - it's just a bit expensive but no loading phase and less water retention.0 -
If you've NOT achieved a fitness level of being able to do pushups, a couple of pullups and squatting at least half your weight WITHOUT supplements, you've not even achieved the "basics".
Many people steer towards supplements as some kind of revelation to health and fitness when the truth is that they need to figure out if they are getting in enough macro/micro nutrient values correct first.
Do you even know your ratio of PCF?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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viren19890 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »Just checked out the website DAMN!
I didn't know creatine had such benefits. I never did a loading phase so I'll be getting the lowest of lowest results possible and I don't have enough left to do a loading phase.
I'll be ordering more but I'll order the type which doesn't require loading phase to avoid that.
Type? You only need Creatine Monohydrate, all other variants are expensive marketing hype and less effective in most cases. You can load Creatine if you want (some people have gastro-intestinal issues with the recommended doses to achieve this), but just taking 5g a day will eventually get you to saturation. Creatine Monohydrate costs about $.02/gram. If you are spending more than this, you need to shop somewhere else.
Yeah there is one called Creatine hydrochloride - it's just a bit expensive but no loading phase and less water retention.
One of the main functions of Creatine is to pull water into the muscle, if your product is stating that you will have less, then why bother taking it. In the end, your call, your money.
Easy read - http://www.muscleforlife.com/which-form-of-creatine-is-most-effective/
In depth read - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080578/0 -
viren19890 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »Just checked out the website DAMN!
I didn't know creatine had such benefits. I never did a loading phase so I'll be getting the lowest of lowest results possible and I don't have enough left to do a loading phase.
I'll be ordering more but I'll order the type which doesn't require loading phase to avoid that.
Type? You only need Creatine Monohydrate, all other variants are expensive marketing hype and less effective in most cases. You can load Creatine if you want (some people have gastro-intestinal issues with the recommended doses to achieve this), but just taking 5g a day will eventually get you to saturation. Creatine Monohydrate costs about $.02/gram. If you are spending more than this, you need to shop somewhere else.
Yeah there is one called Creatine hydrochloride - it's just a bit expensive but no loading phase and less water retention.
One of the main functions of Creatine is to pull water into the muscle, if your product is stating that you will have less, then why bother taking it. In the end, your call, your money.
Easy read - http://www.muscleforlife.com/which-form-of-creatine-is-most-effective/
In depth read - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080578/
lol that's a very good point. I'll read them. Thanks again0 -
If you've NOT achieved a fitness level of being able to do pushups, a couple of pullups and squatting at least half your weight WITHOUT supplements, you've not even achieved the "basics".
Many people steer towards supplements as some kind of revelation to health and fitness when the truth is that they need to figure out if they are getting in enough macro/micro nutrient values correct first.
Do you even know your ratio of PCF?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
40% protein 35% carbs 25% fat
I've learned about CICO being the Master of all the elements in weight loss/gain/maintain- similarly I was trying to learn about supplements.
I see no harm in learning about something that interests me and which I see on youtube videos haha0 -
Zinc - because it helps my immune system and I can stay in the gym. since my food today hasn't been protein heavy, I will have a casein shake sometime after I get home.
After a workout I use whey and BPI Best BCAAs. I feel less soreness when i use it than when I don't. YMMV0 -
MelissaPhippsFeagins wrote: »Zinc - because it helps my immune system and I can stay in the gym. since my food today hasn't been protein heavy, I will have a casein shake sometime after I get home.
After a workout I use whey and BPI Best BCAAs. I feel less soreness when i use it than when I don't. YMMV
Beta-Alanine does the same thing for recovery and I've seen people use BCAAs during a workout.
For casein I used to just add milk with whey which turns into casein lol
What's "YMMV" ?0 -
Well if it helps, 90% of supplements purchased aren't needed. Advertising, hype, and fad use by gym rats and bunnies have somehow made supplements a "must" in getting fit and losing weight.viren19890 wrote: »If you've NOT achieved a fitness level of being able to do pushups, a couple of pullups and squatting at least half your weight WITHOUT supplements, you've not even achieved the "basics".
Many people steer towards supplements as some kind of revelation to health and fitness when the truth is that they need to figure out if they are getting in enough macro/micro nutrient values correct first.
Do you even know your ratio of PCF?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
40% protein 35% carbs 25% fat
I've learned about CICO being the Master of all the elements in weight loss/gain/maintain- similarly I was trying to learn about supplements.
I see no harm in learning about something that interests me and which I see on youtube videos haha
The majority (two thirds) of supplements are manufactured by a third party company that usually uses the cheapest raw materials available to make a good profit. A lot of the raw materials are from China which has NO REGULATION for the purity of product. That's why with independent testing of many products, a high percentage of them have contaminants. They aren't FDA regulated and ANY seller of a supplement can falsely advertise on their product as long as they have the "warning" label instituted by the FDA. DSHEA (who regulates supplements) does literally nothing to confirm if what you buy from your local supplement store is legitimately selling you actual ingredients that are labeled on the bottle. Many supplements use fillers in 50% of the products volume.
There are legit companies that take pride in a complete product, but usually they are the ones that are more costly (not talking MLM here).
All in all, most supplements are smoke and mirrors. And even the best one's may contribute about 1% validity to someone's transformation. The majority of it happened based on CICO and how they trained.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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My problem with supplements is that they're unregulated. Unlike food or drugs, manufacturers can do whatever they want, short of selling poison. But if they want to just toss corn starch into the mix and call it magical weight loss dust, they can. At least in the US.0
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