Carbs...Carbs...Carbs....OMG Carbs EVERY WHERE!!!!

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Replies

  • tanyaelise
    tanyaelise Posts: 28
    200 Calories, somewhere along the way my doctor told me:

    200 Calories for Breakfast
    100 Calorie Snack
    400 Calories for Lunch
    100 Calorie Snack
    600 Calories for Dinner

    If you reverse this scenerio you will have the perfect days plan! Start out with 600 calories for breakfast! You can mix it up!

    I never thought of it that way...makes sense to have lighter calories at the end of the day and energy in the morning...Probably lose more weight like that if I didn't have all the calories before bed/
  • marybsalmon
    marybsalmon Posts: 46 Member
    A carb is a carb the way a calorie is a calorie.

    Now for the long answer. Not all carbs are equal and different foods are better choices for different situations. Carbohydrates give us energy, how much and how quickly are the questions whose answers will give you guidance. Vegetables are mostly carbs, so is that muffin, oatmeal, and snickers bar. But you get a lot more volume and longer fullness from the veggies. The difference is how quickly they are digested and how nutritionally dense the item is. The less refined food is, the longer it takes your body to digest it and get the carbs into your blood stream where they can be used as fuel. Ideally, you want a slow steady stream of fuel. Sugar is the crack cocaine of carbs, it jacks you up and then you want more. Studies have actually been done that show it stimulates the same areas of the brain, the pleasure centers, as hard drugs. So it's all about moderation. Choosing carbs that slowly release their energy for sustained energy through out the day and small portions of sugary/refined items for pleasure or to smooth out a dip from going too long without eating. Personally, sweet potatoes, brown rice, Uncle Sam cereal, and oatmeal are my top quality carb choices along with veggies! Pairing carbs with protein is a good way to balance it out. I make oatmeal pancakes a lot, 1 egg + 1/2 c (not instant) oats + splash of milk/soy + cinnamon/ginger. It keeps me going a lot longer than just plain oatmeal because of the protein from the eggs. Conversely, post workout you want to give your body quick access to carbs so it doesn't "steal" protein from your muscles to repair itself. Post workout, 0-30 minutes, for intense sessions lasting an hour or longer, some sugar is ok because you don't want to waste all the work you did by letting your body tear it down. A fruit and protein smoothie is my go to post workout. Hope this helps. There is so much info out there, you can always ask a dietitian for a really reliable answer.

    I love your answer...very detailed. From what my doctor said, you are right on every point.
  • TK421NotAtPost
    TK421NotAtPost Posts: 512 Member
    So I'm trying to (somewhat ignorantly-I say that because I fully don't understand the concept yet) watch my carb intake, it seems like I go over EVERY day... I've read that carbs aren't exactly great for you in abundance.... they give you a fake burst of energy that leaves you less than satisfied and hungry as hell later.

    So...I stopped by Subway this morning, thinking every where else in town has mucho carbs in everything....(I could think of anyway) I didn't want oatmeal again, (ha ha lots of carbs) So....got the flat bread, egg white, bacon, sandwich, NO cheese (Yay - that was hard), and NO sauce! (again hard) I did put some avacado on there because I'm addicted to it, tomatoes, spinach, black olives and that's it. 475 CALORIES?!?! WTF?????

    I'm supposed to aim for 200.... so I just get frustrated with the lack of options, but I'm doing soo good right now and I'd really like to NOT F it up. Any suggestions, or could anybody give me the "laymans" version of how carbs really play into all this?

    This kind of is a vent, but kind of a reaching out for answers too. Thanks in advance.

    The average american diet...or the vast majority of food choices out there are way too carb-heavy. So it's difficult to limit your carbs to a healthy level without preparing your own food. Anytime I do not brown bag my lunch, I'm relegated to pretty much screwing up my daily macros if I don't just buy a light salad and accompany it with my protein powder.

    Carbs go down so easily...hence they are so easy to over consume without realizing it, and the majority of us overweight folks are carb sensitive. Carb sensitivity plus a diet that is predominated by eating too much carbs will lead to weight gain. For me, the best way to control my diet is to prepare my own food.
  • dlaplume2
    dlaplume2 Posts: 1,658 Member
    Not all carbs are bad. They are not created equal, so don't fret too much. The carbs you want to watch for are the ones that spike your blood sugar. things like candy, soda, sugar, even some fruits. The other ones you need to watch will really depend on what you eat with them. potatoes, white bread, rice, pasta, etc. those will break down faster and cause a spike in your blood sugar,but if you eat them with a protien that will help. Whole grains like brown rice and wheat bread, sweet potatoes all digest slower and there for does not cause the spike in your blood sugar. Don't worry about the number of carbs if you are eating the right carbs and the right combination of carbs to protien.
  • annacataldo
    annacataldo Posts: 872 Member
    I don't watch carbs cuz im never over. I also find it very difficult to stick with a diet when u put in pace too many rules, I begin to get frustrated at meal times with" can't have this can't have this" and give up.

    Avocado is a high calorie food, and so r olives, so u shoulda expected a higher calorie meal. I go to subway at times for dinner/lunch, I've never tried anything at breakfast but my 6inch sandwichs with no cheese or sauce r under 300calories (turkey or ham).

    Yesterday I had 3pieces of bread& pasta for dinner and still wasn't close to maxing out carbs.. today im having 2pieces bread, pasta, cereal bar& granola bar and still not close to maxing out... tomorrow im having pasta, rice, and a bagel, still not maxing out carbs...so I really don't understand watching carbs
  • dls06
    dls06 Posts: 6,774 Member
    It has taken me a lot of time and trial/error to get my carbs under control. I limit them to 40% of my diet (122g a day). You have to learn that if you have a pasta/rice/potato carb at dinner, you can't have one at breakfast and lunch also. You learn that no-sugar-added breads are lower in carbs. You learn that 1 slice of Ezekiel bread is more filling than 4 slices of white bread or 2 of whole wheat. You learn to balance fruits and veggie carbs with the occasional grain/rice/potato carb. I don't eat cakes, cookies, white bread/rice because it just makes me want more. I've learned that plenty of "healthy" foods are still high in carbs and calories and have to be limited.

    Yesterday, I had linguini for the first time in a long time, and was 27g over in my carb category for the day. Once in a while...ok. But it's a learning process.

    Keep playing with your food choices and you'll eventually find what works best for you! Good luck!

    You are the first person I seen on here I can agree with about carbs. It is all about educating yourself, trial and error. Not about cutting out an entire food group.
  • myukniewicz
    myukniewicz Posts: 906 Member
    Carbohydrates are not evil, i promise. lol
    It's the highly refined simple carbohydrates (sweets and the lot) that are not "good" for you.

    Your bodies main source of energy comes from glucose, which is produced by your body from carbohydrates.
    Stick to COMPLEX CARBOHYDRATES : whole grain breads, brown rice, oatmeal, barely :)

    Don't let watching your carbs let you down :) Embrace and enjoy them <3
  • carolinefaith
    carolinefaith Posts: 46 Member
    You should eat 1,200 calories per day and to cut down carbs follow this system: (I have already lost 12 pounds in a short amount of time)

    2 servings of Protein (red meat only once a week)
    4 servings of Vegetables (no carrots)
    3 servings of fruit
    2 servings of starches (1 slice of whole wheat bread= 1 serving)
  • golden1215
    golden1215 Posts: 16 Member
    I had Subway for breakfast this morning: english muffin, egg white, pepperjack cheese, avocado spread, tomato, S&P and a few red onions and mine was only 265 calories....

    and the english muffin is my refined carbs for the whole day. I'm having some fresh strawberries for lunch but just meat, veggies and olive oil for dinner.
  • AlsDonkBoxSquat
    AlsDonkBoxSquat Posts: 6,128 Member
    I sort of limit carbs, but I'm not afraid of them and I don't shy away from them. Why not make your breakfast at home? You can have that same sandwich open and cut a crap ton of calories while still being satisfied.

    If you must have bacon, make it turkey (but that's still high in calories)
    Have it open faced on a whole grain piece of toast
    I can't help you with the avacado . . . there's no substitute, but you can spread it instead of slicing it to use less but still get some in every bite.

    Egg whites are only 16 calories per large egg, all those veggies (minus the avacado) are neglegable in calories, your big killers in that sandwich are the bread, bacon, avacado. You take away the bacon and substitute 1/8 cup of shredded 2% mexican mix cheese for 30 calories. You can make it in advance, wrap it up, take it with you, put it in the microwave for 20 seconds when you get where you're going and voila!
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
    From a physiological standpoint, assuming you are not insulin resistant or diabetic, there is no advantage to a low carb diet than a diet more moderate/high in carbs. However, if that's what you prefer to do, then do it. Experiment and see what works for you. But don't feel some sort of pressure to do it because you hear it's the best, as low carb is NOT the best for everyone.
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
    Go to HULU or netflix and download or rent "FATHEAD" it will explain how carbs help/hurt our weight loss efforts.
    Except ignore everything discussed when talking about insulin and carbs being converted the fat. Conveniently the filmmaker leaves out the disgustingly obvious axiom of human physiology that discusses how carbs are stored as glycogen before being stored as fat, yet he tries to tell viewers that carbs will be converted to fat almost immediately upon consumption. Which couldn't be further from the truth.
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    From a physiological standpoint, assuming you are not insulin resistant or diabetic, there is no advantage to a low carb diet than a diet more moderate/high in carbs. However, if that's what you prefer to do, then do it. Experiment and see what works for you. But don't feel some sort of pressure to do it because you hear it's the best, as low carb is NOT the best for everyone.

    I agree with this. However, personally, I find a carb heavy diet for me was not good. I didn't feel full long enough and consistently went over my calorie limit every day. Cutting carbs is a great way for me to stay within my calorie limits and still eat a lot. That being said, I replaced a lot of my carb-heavy meals with veggies, meats, and other foods that make me feel fuller for longer.

    Do what works for you, but consider lots of options. Weight loss is about calories in < calories out. Good health is about eating quality foods and being active. Find a balance between the two that works for you.
  • Chuckw40
    Chuckw40 Posts: 201
    Go to HULU or netflix and download or rent "FATHEAD" it will explain how carbs help/hurt our weight loss efforts.
    Except ignore everything discussed when talking about insulin and carbs being converted the fat. Conveniently the filmmaker leaves out the disgustingly obvious axiom of human physiology that discusses how carbs are stored as glycogen before being stored as fat, yet he tries to tell viewers that carbs will be converted to fat almost immediately upon consumption. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

    Isn't true though that only about 1200 calories worth of carbs are stored as glyogen? And only if the current stores have been used up?
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
    Isn't true though that only about 1200 calories worth of carbs are stored as glyogen? And only if the current stores have been used up?
    That's not *necessarily* true. The minimum capacity for glycogen storage I have ever heard of was 400g carbs which = 1,600 calories. And that was from a single study on older, obese women who I believe were post-menopausal.

    Most studies out there show glycogen capacity to be more like ~1,200g carbs with the potential ability (based on various factors like standard diet/activity) to supercompensate an additional 500g. I'm willing to bet that the average number for glycogen storage, as a lowball estimate, is in the 800 - 1,000g carb range. Which equates to 3,200 - 4,000 calories worth of pure carbohydrates.

    The other thing is when you eat a ton of carbs, like for carb-loading before an endurance event, your body will go into hyper-carb burning mode where it will burn through carbs at a significantly higher rate than usual. The idea of carbs turning into fat and subsequently stored as body fat is a very, very rare process outside of people who are obese and eat at drastically chronic caloric surpluses with lots of carbs. For most people reading this message, their bodies will rarely undergo de novo lipogenesis (DNL): the pathway that converts carbs to fat. It's a very inactive pathway in humans.

    I would be happy to find studies on this, but this topic is more difficult to find reliable research on. I dug some up for a thread a week or two ago on this forum, maybe I can find that thread and just get the links from there.
  • stephiebabe44
    stephiebabe44 Posts: 15 Member
    3/4 cup serving of cooked steel cut oats is about 170 cal with 27g of carbs, complex carbs. You can always add cinnamon which is proven to help blood sugar levels keeping you fuller for longer or add protein powder. The important thing is to stay away from simple carbs (white bread, pasta etc) as they are the ones that will spike your blood sugar and make you crash.

    It is all about moderation and making sure that you are getting your carbohydrates from the right sources. Carbs from an apple are slow releasing so they won't give you a huge energy hit all at once it will be a steady level of energy. However if you eat a banana you will get all the calories at once giving you an energy hit straight away which is why this is a great pre-workout snack. I think people are so obsessed with worrying about carbs that they forget we need them for us to sustain energy especially when working out. Try not to focus on it too much, as long your protein intake is also high and you are eating only complex carbs then it shouldn't be a worry.
  • I know exactly what you mean... I tried a no carb diet but I just couldn't do it!
    I really do love bread and cheese too much argh! xx
  • Teemo
    Teemo Posts: 338
    200 Calories, somewhere along the way my doctor told me:

    200 Calories for Breakfast
    100 Calorie Snack
    400 Calories for Lunch
    100 Calorie Snack
    600 Calories for Dinner

    If you reverse this scenerio you will have the perfect days plan! Start out with 600 calories for breakfast! You can mix it up!

    I would flip that around completely and make it (if you insist on having breakfast):

    200 calories for breakfast
    400 calories for lunch
    800 calories for dinner
    (100-200 calories before bed).

    There's no real reason to be snacking, and for 100 calories any snack you have will just make you hungrier. Give yourself some time to adjust to it.

    Using those same calorie limits, personally, I'd do:

    0 calories for breakfast
    400 calories for lunch
    1000 calories for dinner
    100-200 calories for bed
  • Chuckw40
    Chuckw40 Posts: 201
    Isn't true though that only about 1200 calories worth of carbs are stored as glyogen? And only if the current stores have been used up?
    That's not *necessarily* true. The minimum capacity for glycogen storage I have ever heard of was 400g carbs which = 1,600 calories. And that was from a single study on older, obese women who I believe were post-menopausal.

    Most studies out there show glycogen capacity to be more like ~1,200g carbs with the potential ability (based on various factors like standard diet/activity) to supercompensate an additional 500g. I'm willing to bet that the average number for glycogen storage, as a lowball estimate, is in the 800 - 1,000g carb range. Which equates to 3,200 - 4,000 calories worth of pure carbohydrates.

    The other thing is when you eat a ton of carbs, like for carb-loading before an endurance event, your body will go into hyper-carb burning mode where it will burn through carbs at a significantly higher rate than usual. The idea of carbs turning into fat and subsequently stored as body fat is a very, very rare process outside of people who are obese and eat at drastically chronic caloric surpluses with lots of carbs. For most people reading this message, their bodies will rarely undergo de novo lipogenesis (DNL): the pathway that converts carbs to fat. It's a very inactive pathway in humans.

    I would be happy to find studies on this, but this topic is more difficult to find reliable research on. I dug some up for a thread a week or two ago on this forum, maybe I can find that thread and just get the links from there.

    I may have not remembered correctly but I thought I heard it was 1200 calories. Either way what you are saying about carbs rarely getting stored as fat seems crazy to me I must admit. I was under the impression that all carbs which exceed your glycogen storage level are stored as fat.
  • SmashleeWpg
    SmashleeWpg Posts: 567 Member
    Or what about 400 for breakie, lunch, and dinner, with 2 x 100 calorie snacks in between those meals? That allows you to have a more filling breakfast.... as far as breakfast and no time to cook goes, as everyone else has mentioned there is always the option of making things up the day before/ahead of time. I spend a Sunday every couple of weeks making up these great breakfast quiches, and then freezing them. I only have to grab them out of the freezer and heat them up at work, and they are very low carb! All you do is mix frozen drained spinach, a bit of cheese, egg whites, and whatever other veggies you want, line a muffin pan with a slice of low-fat, low-sodium deli meat (think turkey or ham), fill each cup with some of your mixture, and bake. So tasty!

    I also am a big fan of protein shakes for breakfast in the morning... I can put together a great green monster (google, them, they're awesome!) with flax seed, 2 cups baby spinach, 1 cup almond milk, scoop of protein powder, and frozen strawberries, for about 350 calories. Keeps me full for a LONG time and takes 2 minutes to whip up!
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
    I may have not remembered correctly but I thought I heard it was 1200 calories. Either way what you are saying about carbs rarely getting stored as fat seems crazy to me I must admit. I was under the impression that all carbs which exceed your glycogen storage level are stored as fat.
    Only under extreme circumstances, but let me re-word it this way:

    What's the difference between carbs being converted to fat vs. carbs being stored as glycogen and restricting fat loss? The end result is the same: lack of fat loss, but the process is simply different. If you eat 4,000 calories of dietary fat, it will be stored as fat and subsequently you will have to burn 4,000 calories of that fat before you return to "baseline." If you eat 4,000 calories of carbs and max out glycogen, it will not be stored as fat but eventually that will all have to be burned off before you return to "baseline."

    Too many carbs at a caloric surplus does not inherently mean FAT gain, but rather WEIGHT gain and subsequently restricted fat loss upon returning to a caloric deficit. It inhibits fat loss rather than contributing to fat gain. Either way, again, the fat won't be coming off.

    That's a simplistic version of a very complex process.
  • Chuckw40
    Chuckw40 Posts: 201
    I may have not remembered correctly but I thought I heard it was 1200 calories. Either way what you are saying about carbs rarely getting stored as fat seems crazy to me I must admit. I was under the impression that all carbs which exceed your glycogen storage level are stored as fat.
    Only under extreme circumstances, but let me re-word it this way:

    What's the difference between carbs being converted to fat vs. carbs being stored as glycogen and restricting fat loss? The end result is the same: lack of fat loss, but the process is simply different. If you eat 4,000 calories of dietary fat, it will be stored as fat and subsequently you will have to burn 4,000 calories of that fat before you return to "baseline." If you eat 4,000 calories of carbs and max out glycogen, it will not be stored as fat but eventually that will all have to be burned off before you return to "baseline."

    Too many carbs at a caloric surplus does not inherently mean FAT gain, but rather WEIGHT gain and subsequently restricted fat loss upon returning to a caloric deficit. It inhibits fat loss rather than contributing to fat gain. Either way, again, the fat won't be coming off.

    That's a simplistic version of a very complex process.

    Ok, let's see. Here is an example, simplified of course. Tell me if this is wrong.

    I have slept all night after loading up with a ton of carbs the night before so my glyogen should be pretty full.
    I decide to eat all my calories for breakfast and eat 1600 calories of pure table sugar.
    The sugar is quickly enters my bloodstream and my blood sugar level goes sky high.
    Insulin is released into my bloodstream and some of the glucose is burned as fuel.
    A small amount is converted to glycogen and stored in my liver and muscles.
    The rest just kinda floats around in my body until it's needed for fuel???

    And eating like this will not lead to metabolic syndrome or eventually diabetes?
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
    Ok, let's see. Here is an example, simplified of course. Tell me if this is wrong.

    I have slept all night after loading up with a ton of carbs the night before so my glyogen should be pretty full.
    I decide to eat all my calories for breakfast and eat 1600 calories of pure table sugar.
    The sugar is quickly enters my bloodstream and my blood sugar level goes sky high.
    Insulin is released into my bloodstream and some of the glucose is burned as fuel.
    A small amount is converted to glycogen and stored in my liver and muscles.
    The rest just kinda floats around in my body until it's needed for fuel???

    And eating like this will not lead to metabolic syndrome or eventually diabetes?
    1) Your glycogen will not be filled as sleeping for 8 hours will burn a good amount of calories. BMR for a male with an average LBM works at ~1.5 calories per minute. Meaning 8 hours of sleep = 720 calories burned from sleep alone. We'll call it 650 - 800 calories burned through sleep. Your glycogen, upon waking, will not be filled.

    2) If you eat 1,600 calories of pure table sugar, then:
    a) Some will be burned off immediately. Your body will recognize the high levels of carbs in your system and will compensate by burning them at an unusually high rate. This is a fat AND muscle-sparing process.
    b) Some will be stored to fill the remaining glycogen.
    c) Anything left over will undergo de novo lipogenesis and be converted to fat.

    -Processes A and B are not linear; they will happen simultaneously-

    3) However, let's say you ate that at 6 am. What happens the rest of the day? All the carbs that were stored as fat will be burned off, along with all of it that was stored as glycogen. And considering you're at a caloric deficit - MORE fat and glycogen will be burned off on top of it.

    4) Remember that weight loss increases insulin sensitivity. Don't miss the forest for the trees here. While I'm not condoning eating 1,600 calories of pure sugar for breakfast as it will result in a spike in blood sugar and subsequent insulin spike, over the long-term as you lose weight your insulin sensitivity will go up, not down. Assuming you don't have a clinical condition, of course.
  • Chuckw40
    Chuckw40 Posts: 201
    Ok, let's see. Here is an example, simplified of course. Tell me if this is wrong.

    I have slept all night after loading up with a ton of carbs the night before so my glyogen should be pretty full.
    I decide to eat all my calories for breakfast and eat 1600 calories of pure table sugar.
    The sugar is quickly enters my bloodstream and my blood sugar level goes sky high.
    Insulin is released into my bloodstream and some of the glucose is burned as fuel.
    A small amount is converted to glycogen and stored in my liver and muscles.
    The rest just kinda floats around in my body until it's needed for fuel???

    And eating like this will not lead to metabolic syndrome or eventually diabetes?
    1) Your glycogen will not be filled as sleeping for 8 hours will burn a good amount of calories. BMR for a male with an average LBM works at ~1.5 calories per minute. Meaning 8 hours of sleep = 720 calories burned from sleep alone. We'll call it 650 - 800 calories burned through sleep. Your glycogen, upon waking, will not be filled.

    2) If you eat 1,600 calories of pure table sugar, then:
    a) Some will be burned off immediately. Your body will recognize the high levels of carbs in your system and will compensate by burning them at an unusually high rate. This is a fat AND muscle-sparing process.
    b) Some will be stored to fill the remaining glycogen.
    c) Anything left over will undergo de novo lipogenesis and be converted to fat.

    -Processes A and B are not linear; they will happen simultaneously-

    3) However, let's say you ate that at 6 am. What happens the rest of the day? All the carbs that were stored as fat will be burned off, along with all of it that was stored as glycogen. And considering you're at a caloric deficit - MORE fat and glycogen will be burned off on top of it.

    4) Remember that weight loss increases insulin sensitivity. Don't miss the forest for the trees here. While I'm not condoning eating 1,600 calories of pure sugar for breakfast as it will result in a spike in blood sugar and subsequent insulin spike, over the long-term as you lose weight your insulin sensitivity will go up, not down. Assuming you don't have a clinical condition, of course.

    It sounds like you are saying that 100% of the calories I burn while sleeping will be from Glycogen and 0% is ever taken from your lean muscle tissue. Is that right?
  • mynameisuntz
    mynameisuntz Posts: 582 Member
    It sounds like you are saying that 100% of the calories I burn while sleeping will be from Glycogen and 0% is ever taken from your lean muscle tissue. Is that right?
    If you're in a caloric surplus and maxing out glycogen stores before sleep, then it'll be incredibly close to 0%. Your body will see the influx of carbs and make that its almost-sole source of fuel. If you're in a caloric deficit, then that number will still be very close to 0% DURING SLEEP, but all long term caloric deficits imply SOME muscle loss.

    Like I said: carbs have anti-catabolic properties. They are anti-catabolism for fat AND muscle alike under certain contexts. It's not that carbs make you fat, it's that they can stop you from losing fat. Maxing out glycogen stores, which almost always implies a caloric surplus according to research, is one of those contexts.
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