Losing Equal Amount of Fat and Muscle How to preserve more Muscle?

I have been monitoring weight, Body Fat Percentage, in turn calculating Lean Body Mass.
I have been tracking Since 3/10 and in that time I have lost and equal amount of muscle and fat. 2.5 lbs each.
I feel confident with the body fat percentage measurements because they are constant and the numbers on this chart are from a scale but are backed up using the caliper method.

Date Weight BF% Fat lbs Fat CHG Lean Muscle Muscle CHG
3/10/2016 202.3 18.9% 38.2 164.1
3/11/2016 201.2 18.7% 37.6 -0.6 163.6 -0.5
3/12/2016 201.1 18.7% 37.6 0.0 163.5 -0.1
3/13/2016 201.5 18.8% 37.9 0.3 163.6 0.1
3/14/2016 202.8 19.0% 38.5 0.7 164.3 0.7
3/18/2016 200.9 18.7% 37.6 -1.0 163.3 -0.9
3/21/2016 199.3 18.4% 36.7 -0.9 162.6 -0.7
3/22/2016 199.5 18.5% 36.9 0.2 162.6 0.0
2/23/2016 199.3 18.4% 36.7 -0.2 162.6 0.0
2/24/2016 198.6 18.4% 36.5 -0.1 162.1 -0.6
3/26/2016 198.6 18.4% 36.5 0.0 162.1 0.0
3/27/2016 198.7 18.4% 36.6 0.0 162.1 0.1
3/29/2016 198.2 18.3% 36.3 -0.3 161.9 -0.2
3/31/2016 198.2 18.3% 36.3 0.0 161.9 0.0
4/2/2016 197.3 18.1% 35.7 -0.6 161.6 -0.3

Total 5 0.8% -2.5 -2.5

I have been eating 40% P 30% F and 30% C. And 1900 calories and I am not eating back any exercise calories. I am doing the Stronglifts 5x5 3 days a week and I haven't been doing excessive cardio, just walking as lifting warm up and cooldown. I have never had over 13,000 steps in a day. Most days are significantly lower.

So is there anything else I can do to preserve more muscle?

Replies

  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
    Are you cutting too low too fast by not eating back some of those exercise calories? It's easy to lose muscle with too few calories. I find myself in a delicate balance and "overdoing" protein has also helped me at times (i.e. getting more than 1 gram per pound of lean body mass).
  • lisawinning4losing
    lisawinning4losing Posts: 726 Member
    I'd say get more protein and fat from animal sources, and don't deprive yourself too much on calories.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    I am targeting 190 grams of protein 63 grams of Fat and 143 grams of carbs.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    Who is using the calipers? You? If so it's likely inaccurate because there are sites you cannot reach.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Who is using the calipers? You? If so it's likely inaccurate because there are sites you cannot reach.

    So are you telling me that if you use two different ways of measuring and they both say the samething they are both wrong in exactly same way? Possible, sure Probable not likely.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    edited April 2016
    Calipers and scale can trend down the same and be off. Especially if you are retaining extra water in the fat cells or dropping water.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    What you are currently doing is enough to not be losing significant muscle as you cut. If you continue to track and the trends say you are constantly losing significant lean mass it might be a good idea to see your doctor for some blood work.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    Yes I do but what else do you propose would be losing at that rate? Certainly not bone or organs?

    If it was water then that doesn't play into the suggestion that retained water is causing a measurement error.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    alanjreed wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    Yes I do but what else do you propose would be losing at that rate? Certainly not bone or organs?

    If it was water then that doesn't play into the suggestion that retained water is causing a measurement error.

    Fat cells can retain water.
  • loulamb7
    loulamb7 Posts: 801 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    This^^^. Looks like your assumption is that LBM = Muscle Mass. It does not.

  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    Yes I do but what else do you propose would be losing at that rate? Certainly not bone or organs?

    If it was water then that doesn't play into the suggestion that retained water is causing a measurement error.

    Fat cells can retain water.

    I understand. My statement was in response what makes up Lean Body Mass. If I was retaining water that would not show up as a lean muscle loss.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    loulamb7 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    This^^^. Looks like your assumption is that LBM = Muscle Mass. It does not.

    Then suggest something else it could be?
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    There's nothing else you can do beyond what you are doing. The only other options are to try a hypertrophy routine rather than a strength based one or get your testosterone checked.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    Out of curiosity:

    How long have you been lifting?
    Is this a cut after a bulk or just an attempt at weight loss in general?
  • loulamb7
    loulamb7 Posts: 801 Member
    alanjreed wrote: »
    loulamb7 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    This^^^. Looks like your assumption is that LBM = Muscle Mass. It does not.

    Then suggest something else it could be?

    Highly likely most of it is water weight. Losing 2.5 lbs of muscle in less than 30 days isn't likely.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Out of curiosity:

    How long have you been lifting?
    Is this a cut after a bulk or just an attempt at weight loss in general?

    I used to be a triathlete and was eating 6000-8000 calories a day to keep up with the 20+ hours a week of training. Life happened and I stopped racing but I continued to eat more than I should and I went from 165 - 220.

    At the end of January I started losing weight. I don't have the complete story with all the measurements back til then because I had the scale set up incorrectly and it was showing a much higher body fat percentage.

    I started back lifting about 5 weeks ago. I want to hold ever pound of muscle I can because I plan to get to 10% body fat then a clean bulk but certainly want to try to avoid a skinny fat look.
  • caurinus
    caurinus Posts: 78 Member
    loulamb7 wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    loulamb7 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    You do realise that muscle is only one component of Lean Body Mass?

    This^^^. Looks like your assumption is that LBM = Muscle Mass. It does not.

    Then suggest something else it could be?

    Highly likely most of it is water weight. Losing 2.5 lbs of muscle in less than 30 days isn't likely.

    What he said. You're not losing muscle. You lost a few pounds of water weight in addition to the fat you've lost. Everyone drops a few pounds of water when first restricting calories, as the body's stored glycogen reserves are reduced. Then when you go back to maintenance calories, you'll put on 5 pounds of water weight in a week as those glycogen reserves are replenished. It's typical.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    alanjreed wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Out of curiosity:

    How long have you been lifting?
    Is this a cut after a bulk or just an attempt at weight loss in general?

    I used to be a triathlete and was eating 6000-8000 calories a day to keep up with the 20+ hours a week of training. Life happened and I stopped racing but I continued to eat more than I should and I went from 165 - 220.

    At the end of January I started losing weight. I don't have the complete story with all the measurements back til then because I had the scale set up incorrectly and it was showing a much higher body fat percentage.

    I started back lifting about 5 weeks ago. I want to hold ever pound of muscle I can because I plan to get to 10% body fat then a clean bulk but certainly want to try to avoid a skinny fat look.

    Okay, so build your strength base, stop sweating the details on the lean mass loss for now, get blood work done (might as well do it annually anyway) and keep doing what you are doing. Once you hit a strength plateau consider switching to a more bodybuilding type program.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Out of curiosity:

    How long have you been lifting?
    Is this a cut after a bulk or just an attempt at weight loss in general?

    I used to be a triathlete and was eating 6000-8000 calories a day to keep up with the 20+ hours a week of training. Life happened and I stopped racing but I continued to eat more than I should and I went from 165 - 220.

    At the end of January I started losing weight. I don't have the complete story with all the measurements back til then because I had the scale set up incorrectly and it was showing a much higher body fat percentage.

    I started back lifting about 5 weeks ago. I want to hold ever pound of muscle I can because I plan to get to 10% body fat then a clean bulk but certainly want to try to avoid a skinny fat look.

    Okay, so build your strength base, stop sweating the details on the lean mass loss for now, get blood work done (might as well do it annually anyway) and keep doing what you are doing. Once you hit a strength plateau consider switching to a more bodybuilding type program.

    Fair enough, just want to hold on to everything I can.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    alanjreed wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Out of curiosity:

    How long have you been lifting?
    Is this a cut after a bulk or just an attempt at weight loss in general?

    I used to be a triathlete and was eating 6000-8000 calories a day to keep up with the 20+ hours a week of training. Life happened and I stopped racing but I continued to eat more than I should and I went from 165 - 220.

    At the end of January I started losing weight. I don't have the complete story with all the measurements back til then because I had the scale set up incorrectly and it was showing a much higher body fat percentage.

    I started back lifting about 5 weeks ago. I want to hold ever pound of muscle I can because I plan to get to 10% body fat then a clean bulk but certainly want to try to avoid a skinny fat look.

    Okay, so build your strength base, stop sweating the details on the lean mass loss for now, get blood work done (might as well do it annually anyway) and keep doing what you are doing. Once you hit a strength plateau consider switching to a more bodybuilding type program.

    Fair enough, just want to hold on to everything I can.

    I understand. As a competitive bodybuilder I have had a few years of experience watching calipers, scale and tape measure. A months worth of data to someone who is new to tracking all of this isn't going to show us the whole picture. You also didn't say who was taking the caliper measurements, which is an important factor in accuracy. You can track those still, but don't hold it as gospel for what's going on at this point. You're going to need more time and data.
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Out of curiosity:

    How long have you been lifting?
    Is this a cut after a bulk or just an attempt at weight loss in general?

    I used to be a triathlete and was eating 6000-8000 calories a day to keep up with the 20+ hours a week of training. Life happened and I stopped racing but I continued to eat more than I should and I went from 165 - 220.

    At the end of January I started losing weight. I don't have the complete story with all the measurements back til then because I had the scale set up incorrectly and it was showing a much higher body fat percentage.

    I started back lifting about 5 weeks ago. I want to hold ever pound of muscle I can because I plan to get to 10% body fat then a clean bulk but certainly want to try to avoid a skinny fat look.

    Okay, so build your strength base, stop sweating the details on the lean mass loss for now, get blood work done (might as well do it annually anyway) and keep doing what you are doing. Once you hit a strength plateau consider switching to a more bodybuilding type program.

    Fair enough, just want to hold on to everything I can.

    I understand. As a competitive bodybuilder I have had a few years of experience watching calipers, scale and tape measure. A months worth of data to someone who is new to tracking all of this isn't going to show us the whole picture. You also didn't say who was taking the caliper measurements, which is an important factor in accuracy. You can track those still, but don't hold it as gospel for what's going on at this point. You're going to need more time and data.

    Calipers were done by a trainer at my gym. Taken in three locations. Chest between nipple and arm pit. To the side of belly button and upper quad. Each measurement repeated three times.
  • fatfudgery
    fatfudgery Posts: 449 Member
    First of all, you're using a BIA scale and skinfolds to measure body fat - two of the most inaccurate methods available. Second, you're comparing measurements taken within days of each other, so the measured change is not enough to get through the noise inherent to the measuring methods you're using. And third, you're losing weight at a relatively slow rate, so the changes will be smaller and therefore more easily hidden by the inaccuracies of your scale and calipers. You're trying to light a match in a hurricane. Measure your BF with calipers today, then measure it again in 6 months and see what's up. And make sure you eat and train right between measurements, of course. In the meantime, rest assured that you didn't lose 2.5lbs of muscle in less than a month if you're lifting heavy and eating enough protein. There was a study recently that took a bunch of guys on a 40% calorie reduction for like 6 weeks or something and found no noticeable reduction in LBM at the end.

    There's an old series of articles on weightology.com that actually looks at the research on BF% measurement and pretty much destroys all the two-compartment models out there (including some of the ones people consider gold standards of accuracy...) I think the series is called "pitfalls of body fat measurement" or something like that. Google.

    And good job on the weight loss!
  • alanjreed
    alanjreed Posts: 35 Member
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    First of all, you're using a BIA scale and skinfolds to measure body fat - two of the most inaccurate methods available. Second, you're comparing measurements taken within days of each other, so the measured change is not enough to get through the noise inherent to the measuring methods you're using. And third, you're losing weight at a relatively slow rate, so the changes will be smaller and therefore more easily hidden by the inaccuracies of your scale and calipers. You're trying to light a match in a hurricane. Measure your BF with calipers today, then measure it again in 6 months and see what's up. And make sure you eat and train right between measurements, of course. In the meantime, rest assured that you didn't lose 2.5lbs of muscle in less than a month if you're lifting heavy and eating enough protein. There was a study recently that took a bunch of guys on a 40% calorie reduction for like 6 weeks or something and found no noticeable reduction in LBM at the end.

    There's an old series of articles on weightology.com that actually looks at the research on BF% measurement and pretty much destroys all the two-compartment models out there (including some of the ones people consider gold standards of accuracy...) I think the series is called "pitfalls of body fat measurement" or something like that. Google.

    And good job on the weight loss!

    Over the past 10 weeks I have lost an average of 2.3 lbs per week. I know there is the whole 1-2 pounds per week but with your statement that my weight loss is relatively slow do you think I can or should increase that? Or stay on the path I'm on?
  • fatfudgery
    fatfudgery Posts: 449 Member
    alanjreed wrote: »
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    First of all, you're using a BIA scale and skinfolds to measure body fat - two of the most inaccurate methods available. Second, you're comparing measurements taken within days of each other, so the measured change is not enough to get through the noise inherent to the measuring methods you're using. And third, you're losing weight at a relatively slow rate, so the changes will be smaller and therefore more easily hidden by the inaccuracies of your scale and calipers. You're trying to light a match in a hurricane. Measure your BF with calipers today, then measure it again in 6 months and see what's up. And make sure you eat and train right between measurements, of course. In the meantime, rest assured that you didn't lose 2.5lbs of muscle in less than a month if you're lifting heavy and eating enough protein. There was a study recently that took a bunch of guys on a 40% calorie reduction for like 6 weeks or something and found no noticeable reduction in LBM at the end.

    There's an old series of articles on weightology.com that actually looks at the research on BF% measurement and pretty much destroys all the two-compartment models out there (including some of the ones people consider gold standards of accuracy...) I think the series is called "pitfalls of body fat measurement" or something like that. Google.

    And good job on the weight loss!

    Over the past 10 weeks I have lost an average of 2.3 lbs per week. I know there is the whole 1-2 pounds per week but with your statement that my weight loss is relatively slow do you think I can or should increase that? Or stay on the path I'm on?

    I don't know... How tall are you? How old? Where are you in your SL5x5 progress? Do you know your 1RM's? How long have you been lifting? Has your weight loss rate been pretty steady, or have you had to cut more and more calories over time to keep losing? The more muscle you have relative to your body weight and height, the slower your rate of weight loss should be, I think. If you have a ton of fat to lose and very little muscle and you're training at relatively high intensity, the faster you can lose... I personally like to use gym performance as a gauge of whether I'm cutting too fast. So if you start failing lifts that you should be getting, you can probably eat a little more and slow down your weight loss rate. This stuff is all very much an individual thing and a little trial and error is a good thing.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    First of all, you're using a BIA scale and skinfolds to measure body fat - two of the most inaccurate methods available. Second, you're comparing measurements taken within days of each other, so the measured change is not enough to get through the noise inherent to the measuring methods you're using. And third, you're losing weight at a relatively slow rate, so the changes will be smaller and therefore more easily hidden by the inaccuracies of your scale and calipers. You're trying to light a match in a hurricane. Measure your BF with calipers today, then measure it again in 6 months and see what's up. And make sure you eat and train right between measurements, of course. In the meantime, rest assured that you didn't lose 2.5lbs of muscle in less than a month if you're lifting heavy and eating enough protein. There was a study recently that took a bunch of guys on a 40% calorie reduction for like 6 weeks or something and found no noticeable reduction in LBM at the end.

    There's an old series of articles on weightology.com that actually looks at the research on BF% measurement and pretty much destroys all the two-compartment models out there (including some of the ones people consider gold standards of accuracy...) I think the series is called "pitfalls of body fat measurement" or something like that. Google.

    And good job on the weight loss!

    Over the past 10 weeks I have lost an average of 2.3 lbs per week. I know there is the whole 1-2 pounds per week but with your statement that my weight loss is relatively slow do you think I can or should increase that? Or stay on the path I'm on?

    I don't know... How tall are you? How old? Where are you in your SL5x5 progress? Do you know your 1RM's? How long have you been lifting? Has your weight loss rate been pretty steady, or have you had to cut more and more calories over time to keep losing? The more muscle you have relative to your body weight and height, the slower your rate of weight loss should be, I think. If you have a ton of fat to lose and very little muscle and you're training at relatively high intensity, the faster you can lose... I personally like to use gym performance as a gauge of whether I'm cutting too fast. So if you start failing lifts that you should be getting, you can probably eat a little more and slow down your weight loss rate. This stuff is all very much an individual thing and a little trial and error is a good thing.

    Most of your questions have been answered previously in the thread.
  • fatfudgery
    fatfudgery Posts: 449 Member
    So
    usmcmp wrote: »
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    alanjreed wrote: »
    fatfudgery wrote: »
    First of all, you're using a BIA scale and skinfolds to measure body fat - two of the most inaccurate methods available. Second, you're comparing measurements taken within days of each other, so the measured change is not enough to get through the noise inherent to the measuring methods you're using. And third, you're losing weight at a relatively slow rate, so the changes will be smaller and therefore more easily hidden by the inaccuracies of your scale and calipers. You're trying to light a match in a hurricane. Measure your BF with calipers today, then measure it again in 6 months and see what's up. And make sure you eat and train right between measurements, of course. In the meantime, rest assured that you didn't lose 2.5lbs of muscle in less than a month if you're lifting heavy and eating enough protein. There was a study recently that took a bunch of guys on a 40% calorie reduction for like 6 weeks or something and found no noticeable reduction in LBM at the end.

    There's an old series of articles on weightology.com that actually looks at the research on BF% measurement and pretty much destroys all the two-compartment models out there (including some of the ones people consider gold standards of accuracy...) I think the series is called "pitfalls of body fat measurement" or something like that. Google.

    And good job on the weight loss!

    Over the past 10 weeks I have lost an average of 2.3 lbs per week. I know there is the whole 1-2 pounds per week but with your statement that my weight loss is relatively slow do you think I can or should increase that? Or stay on the path I'm on?

    I don't know... How tall are you? How old? Where are you in your SL5x5 progress? Do you know your 1RM's? How long have you been lifting? Has your weight loss rate been pretty steady, or have you had to cut more and more calories over time to keep losing? The more muscle you have relative to your body weight and height, the slower your rate of weight loss should be, I think. If you have a ton of fat to lose and very little muscle and you're training at relatively high intensity, the faster you can lose... I personally like to use gym performance as a gauge of whether I'm cutting too fast. So if you start failing lifts that you should be getting, you can probably eat a little more and slow down your weight loss rate. This stuff is all very much an individual thing and a little trial and error is a good thing.

    Most of your questions have been answered previously in the thread.

    Sorry, MFP sucks on mobile...