Marathon
jellebeandesigns
Posts: 347 Member
I have my first Marathon in 6 weeks (as in I race in 6 weeks from yesterday). I know I can run the 26 miles, I'm worried I won't be able to finish in time (6 hours), I ran 19 miles in 4:50 yesterday which will NOT cut it...I'm speed training, lifting 2x a week, running a l o t...what am I missing??
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Replies
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What's your weekly mileage? Has your "easy" pace gotten faster through your training? What does your speed work consist of? Do you do tempo runs?0
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My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.0
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Weekly mileage 32 to 40 miles0
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remember to taper-the adrenalin of the race will speed you up, you need your body rested and just raring to go.0
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Ditch the strength and speed work and just focus on getting easy miles in. I have my first marathon in four weeks and stopped lifting two months ago - made a huge difference in speed and endurance.0
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jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.0 -
I expect the fact that you're training in a hilly area and racing a flatter course will make a difference.
To finish in 6 hrs means a pace of just under 14 min/mile.........0 -
lporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.
I agree with @lporter229, reduce the strength training and cut the sprints. During a marathon you should never sprint. If you sprint early in the race then you are just wrecking your second half and if you can sprint at the end, then you left to much energy and time on the table. If you run a marathon near your limit for the whole thing, then at the end you might be able to pick up your pace through force of will and to empty the tanks. However if you can sprint, then you were holding back a lot.
What do you mean by "1 jog x 20"?
Does your marathon actually have strict 6 hour time limit, or is it that at six hours they will no longer keep the roads closed and you will have to move over to the sidewalks? To me a strict six hour cutoff seems short.
Did you actually run your 19 miles hard enough to use it to project a marathon time? You should be running your long runs at 60 - 90 seconds slower than your planned marathon pace. In fact 80% of your training should be at easy paces and only 20% should hard workouts (tempo runs, marathon pace runs, hill repeats, etc).
Are you following a training plan or are you just making up your own?0 -
VanderTuig1976 wrote: »Ditch the strength and speed work and just focus on getting easy miles in. I have my first marathon in four weeks and stopped lifting two months ago - made a huge difference in speed and endurance.
It's for hip & back strength to protect my gait :-) sore feet are no Bueno0 -
Hal Higdon novice 2 with alterations for time restraintslporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.
I agree with @lporter229, reduce the strength training and cut the sprints. During a marathon you should never sprint. If you sprint early in the race then you are just wrecking your second half and if you can sprint at the end, then you left to much energy and time on the table. If you run a marathon near your limit for the whole thing, then at the end you might be able to pick up your pace through force of will and to empty the tanks. However if you can sprint, then you were holding back a lot.
What do you mean by "1 jog x 20"?
1 min 15 second sprint, 1 min lower speed (still running times 20 intervals)
Does your marathon actually have strict 6 hour time limit, or is it that at six hours they will no longer keep the roads closed and you will have to move over to the sidewalks? To me a strict six hour cutoff seems short.
6 hours is the disqualification point
Did you actually run your 19 miles hard enough to use it to project a marathon time? You should be running your long runs at 60 - 90 seconds slower than your planned marathon pace. In fact 80% of your training should be at easy paces and only 20% should hard workouts (tempo runs, marathon pace runs, hill repeats, etc).
No, it was below my projected pace and I stopped twice (not feeling well)
Are you following a training plan or are you just making up your own?
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jellebeandesigns wrote: »
Hal Higdon novice 2 with alterations for time restraintslporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.
I agree with @lporter229, reduce the strength training and cut the sprints. During a marathon you should never sprint. If you sprint early in the race then you are just wrecking your second half and if you can sprint at the end, then you left to much energy and time on the table. If you run a marathon near your limit for the whole thing, then at the end you might be able to pick up your pace through force of will and to empty the tanks. However if you can sprint, then you were holding back a lot.
What do you mean by "1 jog x 20"?
1 min 15 second sprint, 1 min lower speed (still running times 20 intervals)
Does your marathon actually have strict 6 hour time limit, or is it that at six hours they will no longer keep the roads closed and you will have to move over to the sidewalks? To me a strict six hour cutoff seems short.
6 hours is the disqualification point
Did you actually run your 19 miles hard enough to use it to project a marathon time? You should be running your long runs at 60 - 90 seconds slower than your planned marathon pace. In fact 80% of your training should be at easy paces and only 20% should hard workouts (tempo runs, marathon pace runs, hill repeats, etc).
No, it was below my projected pace and I stopped twice (not feeling well)
Are you following a training plan or are you just making up your own?
When you say that you altered it for time restraints, do you mean the time you have to dedicate to training on a near daily basis, or the six hour time limit?
I have used Higdon's plans for every one of my marathons and worked my way from Novice 1 up to Intermediate 1 for my marathon this Sunday, so I have some experience with his plans. I don't understand why you would select a Novice plan and then modify it with workout types that are not introduced until you get up into Higdon's Advanced plans. How long have you been running? Some of the workouts are reserved for the advanced plans because they are very hard on the body and you should have a very solid base before adding them into a training plan.
I see in your profile that you ran your second half last month, what was your time for that?
Your average pace for the 19 miles was about 90 seconds slower than what it would need to be to finish a full in 6 hours. Do you think you would be able to average around 13:44 for the full distance.
Exactly what type of strength work are you doing? Are you lifting weights, doing body weight, or mobility work? You say that it is to protect your gait, which sounds like you might have some mobility or muscle imbalance issues. You might want to try out Coach Jay's Myrtl routine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLrKr54yA0
and his Lunge Warmup routine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K_CiRml-vQ
With only 5 weeks until your race there is not a whole lot that can be done, you are either on track to be able to meet the time cut off or you are not. Try to cut out anything that is not necessary and would just add wear & tear, and fatigue without providing a solid return. Follow the plan, do recovery work, and get plenty of rest. Adding hard workouts will just increase the likelihood of injuries, which will keep you from getting to the start line.
Will your race be at a lower elevation? Since you are in the Denver area, you are likely dealing with some of the impacts of training in thinner air. You might get a bit of a boost from running at a lower elevation, plus the boost that you get from race day adrenaline.0 -
Is the marathon going to have pace groups? Seems like that would be a fairly easy way to try to achieve a sustained pace under the time limit without going out too fast or risking going too slow.0
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jellebeandesigns wrote: »
Hal Higdon novice 2 with alterations for time restraintslporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.
I agree with @lporter229, reduce the strength training and cut the sprints. During a marathon you should never sprint. If you sprint early in the race then you are just wrecking your second half and if you can sprint at the end, then you left to much energy and time on the table. If you run a marathon near your limit for the whole thing, then at the end you might be able to pick up your pace through force of will and to empty the tanks. However if you can sprint, then you were holding back a lot.
What do you mean by "1 jog x 20"?
1 min 15 second sprint, 1 min lower speed (still running times 20 intervals)
Does your marathon actually have strict 6 hour time limit, or is it that at six hours they will no longer keep the roads closed and you will have to move over to the sidewalks? To me a strict six hour cutoff seems short.
6 hours is the disqualification point
Did you actually run your 19 miles hard enough to use it to project a marathon time? You should be running your long runs at 60 - 90 seconds slower than your planned marathon pace. In fact 80% of your training should be at easy paces and only 20% should hard workouts (tempo runs, marathon pace runs, hill repeats, etc).
No, it was below my projected pace and I stopped twice (not feeling well)
Are you following a training plan or are you just making up your own?
When you say that you altered it for time restraints, do you mean the time you have to dedicate to training on a near daily basis, or the six hour time limit?
I have used Higdon's plans for every one of my marathons and worked my way from Novice 1 up to Intermediate 1 for my marathon this Sunday, so I have some experience with his plans. I don't understand why you would select a Novice plan and then modify it with workout types that are not introduced until you get up into Higdon's Advanced plans. How long have you been running? Some of the workouts are reserved for the advanced plans because they are very hard on the body and you should have a very solid base before adding them into a training plan.
I see in your profile that you ran your second half last month, what was your time for that?
Your average pace for the 19 miles was about 90 seconds slower than what it would need to be to finish a full in 6 hours. Do you think you would be able to average around 13:44 for the full distance.
Exactly what type of strength work are you doing? Are you lifting weights, doing body weight, or mobility work? You say that it is to protect your gait, which sounds like you might have some mobility or muscle imbalance issues. You might want to try out Coach Jay's Myrtl routinehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLrKr54yA0
and his Lunge Warmup routine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K_CiRml-vQ
With only 5 weeks until your race there is not a whole lot that can be done, you are either on track to be able to meet the time cut off or you are not. Try to cut out anything that is not necessary and would just add wear & tear, and fatigue without providing a solid return. Follow the plan, do recovery work, and get plenty of rest. Adding hard workouts will just increase the likelihood of injuries, which will keep you from getting to the start line.
Will your race be at a lower elevation? Since you are in the Denver area, you are likely dealing with some of the impacts of training in thinner air. You might get a bit of a boost from running at a lower elevation, plus the boost that you get from race day adrenaline.
- my half didn't fall where it was on the training plan so I modified it for that, I had 2 sprained ankles which set me back a little so I modified based on that as well.
- I've been running for 4 years.
- My time for my half last month was 3:18 but it was in 2 feet of snow, ice and mud. I was also running on a sprained ankle.
- Weightlifting - tapered from my norm
- The race is in Denver, I live up here so training here doesn't hurt my o2 intake- it's what I'm used to0 -
Nope.blues4miles wrote: »Is the marathon going to have pace groups? Seems like that would be a fairly easy way to try to achieve a sustained pace under the time limit without going out too fast or risking going too slow.0 -
lporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.VanderTuig1976 wrote: »Ditch the strength and speed work and just focus on getting easy miles in. I have my first marathon in four weeks and stopped lifting two months ago - made a huge difference in speed and endurance.
Echoing what these folks said! For a first marathon, pretty much all your running should be a slow, comfortable pace. Speedwork isn't really necessary. You should be focusing more on making sure you can run for that long, through the fatigue, etc. and work on getting the prescribed miles done.
During your taper (which I assume will be 2-3 weeks out from the race), cut the weights back and do zero speedwork. You'll already have the benefit of training on the hills and then running a flat course, but cutting the weights and speed will hopefully leave you feeling really fresh and hopefully able to come in under the 6 hour limit.0 -
kristinegift wrote: »lporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.VanderTuig1976 wrote: »Ditch the strength and speed work and just focus on getting easy miles in. I have my first marathon in four weeks and stopped lifting two months ago - made a huge difference in speed and endurance.
Echoing what these folks said! For a first marathon, pretty much all your running should be a slow, comfortable pace. Speedwork isn't really necessary. You should be focusing more on making sure you can run for that long, through the fatigue, etc. and work on getting the prescribed miles done.
During your taper (which I assume will be 2-3 weeks out from the race), cut the weights back and do zero speedwork. You'll already have the benefit of training on the hills and then running a flat course, but cutting the weights and speed will hopefully leave you feeling really fresh and hopefully able to come in under the 6 hour limit.
I have no doubt in my mind I can finish 26.2 it's the time. I mean after 19 I was tired but not dead
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jellebeandesigns wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »
Hal Higdon novice 2 with alterations for time restraintslporter229 wrote: »jellebeandesigns wrote: »My easy pace is faster, speed work- 1:15 sprint, 1 jog x 20 or until I hit 4 miles (on hills). Easy run is 6-8 miles and tempo for 5 miles. Long run is 19 miles uphill both ways (in the Rocky Mountain foothills). The marathon is relatively flat but I don't live in a flat area.
I would ditch the sprint intervals for now and focus on increasing your weekly mileage at slow, comfortable pace. I think you will likely benefit from training on hills. Also, if you are doing lower body strength training using weights, you might want to cut the weight back or just do upper body. Weight lifting can make your legs very heavy on long runs. I generally only do body weight exercises for my lower body during training periods.
I agree with @lporter229, reduce the strength training and cut the sprints. During a marathon you should never sprint. If you sprint early in the race then you are just wrecking your second half and if you can sprint at the end, then you left to much energy and time on the table. If you run a marathon near your limit for the whole thing, then at the end you might be able to pick up your pace through force of will and to empty the tanks. However if you can sprint, then you were holding back a lot.
What do you mean by "1 jog x 20"?
1 min 15 second sprint, 1 min lower speed (still running times 20 intervals)
Does your marathon actually have strict 6 hour time limit, or is it that at six hours they will no longer keep the roads closed and you will have to move over to the sidewalks? To me a strict six hour cutoff seems short.
6 hours is the disqualification point
Did you actually run your 19 miles hard enough to use it to project a marathon time? You should be running your long runs at 60 - 90 seconds slower than your planned marathon pace. In fact 80% of your training should be at easy paces and only 20% should hard workouts (tempo runs, marathon pace runs, hill repeats, etc).
No, it was below my projected pace and I stopped twice (not feeling well)
Are you following a training plan or are you just making up your own?
When you say that you altered it for time restraints, do you mean the time you have to dedicate to training on a near daily basis, or the six hour time limit?
I have used Higdon's plans for every one of my marathons and worked my way from Novice 1 up to Intermediate 1 for my marathon this Sunday, so I have some experience with his plans. I don't understand why you would select a Novice plan and then modify it with workout types that are not introduced until you get up into Higdon's Advanced plans. How long have you been running? Some of the workouts are reserved for the advanced plans because they are very hard on the body and you should have a very solid base before adding them into a training plan.
I see in your profile that you ran your second half last month, what was your time for that?
Your average pace for the 19 miles was about 90 seconds slower than what it would need to be to finish a full in 6 hours. Do you think you would be able to average around 13:44 for the full distance.
Exactly what type of strength work are you doing? Are you lifting weights, doing body weight, or mobility work? You say that it is to protect your gait, which sounds like you might have some mobility or muscle imbalance issues. You might want to try out Coach Jay's Myrtl routinehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GLrKr54yA0
and his Lunge Warmup routine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K_CiRml-vQ
With only 5 weeks until your race there is not a whole lot that can be done, you are either on track to be able to meet the time cut off or you are not. Try to cut out anything that is not necessary and would just add wear & tear, and fatigue without providing a solid return. Follow the plan, do recovery work, and get plenty of rest. Adding hard workouts will just increase the likelihood of injuries, which will keep you from getting to the start line.
Will your race be at a lower elevation? Since you are in the Denver area, you are likely dealing with some of the impacts of training in thinner air. You might get a bit of a boost from running at a lower elevation, plus the boost that you get from race day adrenaline.
- my half didn't fall where it was on the training plan so I modified it for that, I had 2 sprained ankles which set me back a little so I modified based on that as well.
- I've been running for 4 years.
- My time for my half last month was 3:18 but it was in 2 feet of snow, ice and mud. I was also running on a sprained ankle.
- Weightlifting - tapered from my norm
- The race is in Denver, I live up here so training here doesn't hurt my o2 intake- it's what I'm used to
Some of this (^^^) is information that would have been helpful in your initial post.
Are you still having problems with your ankles? You definitely want to take care of them so that you do not have any additional setbacks.
If you can manage a 3:18 half in the snow with a bad ankle, then running a full in 6 hours should be doable.
Good Luck0 -
Dont bother with speed reps. Much better to set distances 5km - 10m and try and beat your time each time round0
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@trswallow when I sprained my ankle I had a minor dislocation. I'm still dealing with some swelling and minor pain.0
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