Final Adjustment Advice

the_oakster · April 2016

Hi everyone. I'm a 37 year old male looking to shift the last few bits of fat from my waist. I'm 181 cm and weigh about 76kg. I'm into cycling, doing 200-300km a week, using a HRM for calories burned, and I do a few basic sit ups and press ups everyday. My macros are set to 55% carbs, 20% fat (I try to eat less) and 25% protein.

I'm currently set to 1500 calories a day and I'm not eating back my exercise calories at the moment. I've lost a fair bit in the last 2 weeks and I'm going to keep going for the next week and a half to make it 4 weeks in total.

It's for that point onwards I'm looking for advice. I've read that the current regime is unsustainable for health reasons due to low CICO. What do I change to get lean and keep losing fat but don't risk losing muscle that will be detrimental to my cycling or health? Any help or advice appreciated

sijomial · April 2016

As a fellow cyclist I initially freaked out at your ultra low intake.....
Don't know how you are managing frankly! I ate 3700 calories on Saturday when I rode 75 hilly KMs.

But what you can cope with for a few weeks may well come to a sudden end - your performance may drop off dramatically and fatigue and poor recovery will be very noticeable.

But the implications of a short duration but severe deficit aren't too bad. Where it does become bad is longer duration and severe deficit. Worth having a look at Lyle McDonald's site regarding losing weight rapidly while avoiding muscle loss - includes info on refeeds and diet breaks.

The alternative approach I would suggest is increasing your calories up to the point where you are having a very slow weight loss. To avoid muscle loss over longer term means moderate deficit, higher than "normal" protein and fuelling your rides properly.

the_oakster · April 2016

I'm only managing as I had quite a bit to lose I think. That's nearly all gone now. I eat when I'm riding so I don't run out of energy on the way round and I always have a recovery drink afterwards too. I do sometimes eat a few of the calories back . I'm not a complete stickler to the numbers

From what you rexommend then, once I've done this last week and a half I'll start eating enough of my calories to have a 500 calorie deficit each day then and see what happens over a 2 or 3 week period and adjust as necessary. I'll look at the site too.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look

the_oakster · April 2016

I've been reading many threads on cyclists/cardio/muscle loss/deficits and so on today and I wonder if I've got this right:

My MFP calories are set at TDEE 1500. That's a 1000 calorie deficit just to start with I believe?
I am cycling 2-300km a week, either on the road or doing HIIT videos on rollers. I have 1 or 2 rest days where I still spin my legs but at a very sedentary rate. I use a HRM and cadence meter but not a power meter.
I do sit ups (100) and press ups (50) every day. I am increasing these by 10 as I get stronger but these aren't added to MFP but I think that calorie wise they are not worth adding anyway.
My macros are set to 55% carbs, 20% fat and 25% protein.
In the last 7 days, not including today, I burned 5464 calories in excercise.
In the last week I had a 3,382 calorie deficit, with a net average of 1017.

I know that this is unsustainable and over a period of time it is detrimental. I have been doing it for only 2 weeks and 3 days but I have lost 6kg which is clear to see, both in the mirror and in my trousers

I would say that I am just below 20% BF now.

My weight as a figure is not relevant to me but I want to be nearer 15% BF just from an aesthetic point of view . I also want to gain cycling strength and build a little muscle mass on my upper body.

So... Am I right in thinking that once I have finished with the very low CICO ratio, which I would like to do for the next week and 3 days if possible (giving me 4 weeks in total), I should increase my calories to 2000 + Excercise and further reduce my fat macro to 15%?

Would this mean that I would continue to lose the 5% of body fat, albeit at a much slower but healthier rate, due to the 500 calorie defecit from my TDEE, as well as giving me the calories that I need to make sure that I don't lose any muscle, which I will surely do nearer the end of this 4 week period? Or would I need to eat at 2500 + excercise to make any size gains?

Or is this too much of a quick increase, or even too little, from what I have been doing so that I will either end up putting on fat again or I wont make any gains from a muscle mass point of view? Do I need to concentrate on either losing the 5% BF or gaining the muscle? Can I do both, or either, with the amount of cardio that I do?

Apologies for all the questions. Its a confusing subject!

sijomial · April 2016

MFP isn't a TDEE calculator - exercise is not part of the calorie goal. That's why you are supposed to log your exercise and "eat back" those exercise calories. Which is a very significant number given your exercise.

Any goal MFP gives you is heavily influenced by the rate of loss you select (2lb / week = 1000 cals deficit a day).

You won't add body fat in a continuing calorie deficit. Dietary fat and body fat aren't really linked in the way you seem to be thinking. You may see a temporary water weight bounce from boosting your glycogen storage though - the gain will be out of proportion to your calorie increase but ignore it, more glycogen is a good thing!

Personally I find fixed percentage macro ratios hateful and restrictive so I work on minimums for protein and fat and carbs fall wherever they fall within my overall calorie goal. With caveat carbs are king on big cycling days - but with the increased calorie allowance that day you shouldn't find it a struggle to hit fat and protein minimum goals too.

I like protein @ 1g / 1lb of estimated lean mass, fat at 0.4g of bodyweight and carbs = whatever.

There's a trade off between fat loss (calorie deficit) and performance and building muscle. Only you know your priorities. I prefer slow and steady progress - others don't.

the_oakster · April 2016

Thanks again

I've sent you a message to get a little more detail but I agree that I can only do one or the other.

My priority is losing the 5% and once that's done I can then look at increasing mass. I have no time limits, no body weight specific limits or goals so I'll keep with a deficit as I have been doing for up to 4 weeks then, I will eat my exercise and see what happens and adjust if necessary. I'll look at increasing my intake to build the muscle up in the future once the 5% goes

SarahPeters3 · April 2016

Increase your protein! That's way too low to sustain muscle mass and to help burn the extra fat off I have my protein at about 35-40 percent of my daily intake the 20 percent fat is perfectly fine as long as it's coming from healthy fats and that should leave 40-45 percent carbs which is good for fat loss. Increase your calories for sure I am 59 kg and I eat 1500 calories and still can have weight loss just make sure the extra calories you add in are coming from more protein rich and whole foods!

the_oakster · April 2016

Thanks Sarah

I have a higher carb level as I do a lot of cycling, up to 3 hours at a time, 3 or 4 days a week on a good week.

Would I be able to do this on only 40-45% carbs? I've always read that cycling requires 50-55% minimum.

JoRocka · April 2016

sijomial wrote: »

As a fellow cyclist I initially freaked out at your ultra low intake.....
Don't know how you are managing frankly! I ate 3700 calories on Saturday when I rode 75 hilly KMs.

But what you can cope with for a few weeks may well come to a sudden end - your performance may drop off dramatically and fatigue and poor recovery will be very noticeable.

But the implications of a short duration but severe deficit aren't too bad. Where it does become bad is longer duration and severe deficit. Worth having a look at Lyle McDonald's site regarding losing weight rapidly while avoiding muscle loss - includes info on refeeds and diet breaks.

The alternative approach I would suggest is increasing your calories up to the point where you are having a very slow weight loss. To avoid muscle loss over longer term means moderate deficit, higher than "normal" protein and fuelling your rides properly.

This- and you may really benefit from either more progressive body weight programs or flat out weight lifting.

Also- I'm a 5'8" female- who does very little dedicated cardio- and I eat about 1500-1600 calories a day- 1500 fora cardio heavy male is low. very low.

the_oakster · April 2016

Hi Jo. The current low CICO ratio is very short term for quick weight loss. I'm only doing it for a maximum of 10 more days unless I notice it's effects before then.

I'm definitely upping the calories when this stage is over due to potential health implications but so far I don't feel hungry or tired andI've not noticed any drop in performance or recovery.

I'm thinking towards eating the exercise, but keeping my daily calories at 1500-2000 depending on whether I keep losing body fat. Once that's done I'm eating over my allowance to build up muscle mass. Then I'll maintain. That's the plan so far...

sllm1 · April 2016

I use the Scooby TDEE calculator. I eat at a slight deficit (10-15%) from that and continue with my training. Body recomposition is a slow process and requires patience, but trust the process.

the_oakster · April 2016

Thanks sllm1. I'll take a look and see what it works out for me

the_oakster · April 2016

It says that I should be at 2429 calories to lose weight with a 20% calorie reduction and 2885 to lose fat at 5% reduction.

This fits in to the 1500 + exercise plan quite nicely. My macro splits would stay the same as they are too roughly. Maybe I'm beginning to get a plan that may be right

Final Adjustment Advice

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