1/2 ironman training plan?

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  • sarabushby
    sarabushby Posts: 784 Member
    Hi Dee, seems like a solid plan, I've never yet stepped up to half distance myself so can't really say I'm in a good place to give advice! I run after biking/spin as often as convenient, not far though, only 2-3km usually as I cram it in between two spin classes for example. It gets your legs used to the shock of trying to run off the bike though.
    I'm surprised how short the swims are in the first section of the plan.
    My current training is more intense than this but yet I wouldnt have the confidence to take on a half-distance. Std/Olympic is enough for me this year!
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    glevianso - I agree about the transition bike/runs. I also agree about the longer bike rides but I it looks to me like that there isn't much of a taper towards the end before the actual race. In my marathon training there were full two days off before the race. You only ran 8 miles as the long run a week before the race. This plan has you biking 50 miles (almost the whole distance a week before the race) That doesn't seem like much of a taper. I am giving myself plenty of time (18 weeks) I think that there should be more of a taper towards the end of the program... Don't you?
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    Any idea what decent times are for biking and swimming?

    I swam 1000 yards in the pool today.
    I biked 20 miles yesterday.

    I don't really have an idea what a decent time is for swimming in a pool or biking on a good paved trail in normal conditions with very little hills.

    Any help?
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    glevianso - I agree about the transition bike/runs. I also agree about the longer bike rides but I it looks to me like that there isn't much of a taper towards the end before the actual race. In my marathon training there were full two days off before the race. You only ran 8 miles as the long run a week before the race. This plan has you biking 50 miles (almost the whole distance a week before the race) That doesn't seem like much of a taper. I am giving myself plenty of time (18 weeks) I think that there should be more of a taper towards the end of the program... Don't you?

    For what it's worth I don't really taper much for any big race. I have a full Ironman coming up in 2 weeks and I am not going to start actually anything resembling a taper until half way through next week. In other words, at most I get 9 days of "easy" ahead of a full Ironman. Unlike a marathon where you are running upwards of 60-70 miles a week and beating yourself into a pulp, you don't beat yourself up all that badly training for long distance triathlon. You build your endurance mostly on the bike so that your body doesn't get too broken by longer and longer runs.

    I am not a fan of tapers at all for long distance triathlon. You simply don't need it the way you do if training only for a marathon. I will also put out there that most marathon runners are not running enough miles to really need a full 3-week taper. When I am training for a standalone marathon I give myself only 2 actual weeks. The last time I was training for a full open marathon, I ran a full marathon 2 weeks before running the actual race I was training for. The first marathon was just conveniently happening the day I needed to run my last 22 miler, and then I jogged the last 4 miles really easy. Then ran my race for time 2 weeks later.

    So I actually like the amount of "taper" your plan gives you :)
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    Any idea what decent times are for biking and swimming?

    I swam 1000 yards in the pool today.
    I biked 20 miles yesterday.

    I don't really have an idea what a decent time is for swimming in a pool or biking on a good paved trail in normal conditions with very little hills.

    Any help?

    This is impossible to answer. What are your goals for race day? My idea of a "good time" and anyone else's is going to be drastically different. It is all dependent on what you are aiming for.

    Do you want to win the race? Win your age group? Come in the top 50% of your age group? Just finish? Just not be last?
  • sarabushby
    sarabushby Posts: 784 Member
    Sorry @dee_thurman I agree with @glevinso it's impossible to say what 'decent' is. You could take a look at the previous results for the race you're aiming at, check out the finish time and splits for people in your age group if you want some kind of benchmark. Bearing in mind of course pool swim & OW swim are a different kettle of fish.

    In the pool our sprint race distance is 400m so 437yards, our faster tri club folk might get that down to between 5-6mins, most ppl will be 7-8mins and then those who are newer or do less swim training 8-12mins? So a typical time for 1000yds maybe 20mins? Not sure that's any help mind as it can vary so much.
  • LindzMiche
    LindzMiche Posts: 30 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    Any idea what decent times are for biking and swimming?

    I swam 1000 yards in the pool today.
    I biked 20 miles yesterday.

    I don't really have an idea what a decent time is for swimming in a pool or biking on a good paved trail in normal conditions with very little hills.

    Any help?

    Depending on what race you do too.. you need to be mindful of cutoff times. You will get pulled off the course if you are slower than what they set up as cutoff times. I'm sure a lot of people can finish half irons.. but within the cutoff time may be a different story.
  • Djproulx
    Djproulx Posts: 3,084 Member
    As others have said, the answer to the "decent time" question depends on not only your goals, but also factors such as the terrain, heat, etc. When putting the 3 disciplines together into a race day performance, fueling and pacing also come into play.
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    As far as times go, I am not really interested in finishing in any place other than just finishing the race. However when I I start the race I don't want to be towards the bottom. What are the average times for swimming in a pool while training or biking?
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    sarabushby - thanks for the swim times - that gives me what I was looking for.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    As far as times go, I am not really interested in finishing in any place other than just finishing the race. However when I I start the race I don't want to be towards the bottom. What are the average times for swimming in a pool while training or biking?

    It depends on the race. Average times are hard to tease out.

    For a Half Iron race, the typical cutoffs are something like 1:10 for the swim, 5hrs for the bike, and usually something like 4hrs on the run. At some point they close the course and bring you back in a van if you can't make the cutoffs.

    Assuming a flat-ish course the front of the race will usually swim in the 0:25 range, bike in the 2:20 range and run in the 1:25 range for a winning time in the low to mid 4-hour range. Mid pack? Could be anywhere from 35-40 minutes, 2:45-3:30 on the bike, 1:45-3hrs on the run. You will see all manner of people at these races from the fastest guys on the front to people doing their first triathlon ever (why a half iron? who knows).

    It is really impossible to say what is a "good" time, average time, or anything like that.
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    If it helps for my marathon, I ran around an 8:30 pace for the first 23 miles before I started cramping up. I think my pace for the marathon ended up being around a 9:00 pace and that was fine for me. I wasn't trying to compete to win, I wasn't walking at any point in time in the marathon but it was fast enough for me to enjoy the race. That is sort of what I would like to do for the 1/2 triathlon. Enjoy the race but train well enough that I can swim/bike/run with a group... etc..
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    You went sub-4:00 in your first marathon? You will be totally fine at a half-iron race coming in mid-pack or better :)
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    glevinso - You say that but I about didn't make it. I was totally fine for 23 miles. Started cramping around that time and full fledged cramped for the last 1/2 mile. My running form had to be pretty funny as I waddled across... Walking back to the car took awhile as my lower half locked up. It was the hottest day of the year and I had trained during the winter. I hope training in warmer conditions, drinking more throughout the race and picking up some more strength exercises in my lower half will help so I don't cramp next time out.
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    By the way I feel like an easy bike ride tonight even though it isn't in my training. For my marathon I was pretty strict on sticking to my program. I have swam 1000 and ran 4 miles but I did it back to back in the morning. I feel like a 7-10 mile bike ride. I don't bike again until Sunday (25 miles) It can't hurt can it. I biked 20 miles yesterday.
  • gdyment
    gdyment Posts: 299 Member
    More bike is always a good choice, but no putting about, you have to put in effort.
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    Anybody have any ideas, thoughts about what is a good bike app?
  • sarabushby
    sarabushby Posts: 784 Member
    It depends what you want it for but a lot of us use Strava for cycling and also for running. Map your rides, see stats, connect it to your cycle computer, other Bluetooth accessories like power meter etc or GPS watch or just have it running on your phone. Personally I use a tomtom GPS Multisport watch linked to my Strava account.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    glevinso - You say that but I about didn't make it. I was totally fine for 23 miles. Started cramping around that time and full fledged cramped for the last 1/2 mile. My running form had to be pretty funny as I waddled across... Walking back to the car took awhile as my lower half locked up. It was the hottest day of the year and I had trained during the winter. I hope training in warmer conditions, drinking more throughout the race and picking up some more strength exercises in my lower half will help so I don't cramp next time out.

    I don't know anybody that doesn't feel like death in the last 3-4 miles of a marathon no matter how experienced they are. Even in my absolute best marathon ever (3:04:14), I started falling apart due to all kinds of cramps in random places (My calves, sure, but why my neck? WTF?) over those last 4 miles.

    It never hurts to add more biking, especially if cycling is not your strong sport.

    I don't use a phone app to track my training. I use a 920xt. However I still use Strava for it's "social media" aspect. Lots of people use the Strava app on their phone as their bike computer as well.
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP? I started off tracking everyday but I have found a grove with exercise and what I eat my weight pretty much stays the same.
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    I didn't start out that way and that is why I am on MFP
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP? I started off tracking everyday but I have found a grove with exercise and what I eat my weight pretty much stays the same.

    Mostly for the cals in/intake piece. If left to my own devices, I'd eat way more than I could ever burn off and race weight would be this mythical idea rather than something that is only just slightly out of reach.
  • Djproulx
    Djproulx Posts: 3,084 Member
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP? I started off tracking everyday but I have found a grove with exercise and what I eat my weight pretty much stays the same.

    Mostly for the cals in/intake piece. If left to my own devices, I'd eat way more than I could ever burn off and race weight would be this mythical idea rather than something that is only just slightly out of reach.

    Ain't it the truth! Believe the formula is: Race weight= Current weight - Just a Few More Lbs.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP? I started off tracking everyday but I have found a grove with exercise and what I eat my weight pretty much stays the same.

    For a while I was tracking calories, not to lose weight, but to understand my metabolic rates better, exercise expenditure (because I don't necessarily believe what my Garmin tells me I burned), and try to figure out how to balance it. MFP was a huge help there. I stopped tracking that long ago but I still pop into the forums.

    I might need to start tracking again though. I am hitting my peak for the upcoming Ironman and find I have accidentally dropped 5lbs recently even though I never really stop eating. Past few weeks I have been consuming on the order of 4000 calories a day and cant keep weight on. Fortunately I can back that off soon.
  • Djproulx
    Djproulx Posts: 3,084 Member
    glevinso wrote: »
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP? I started off tracking everyday but I have found a grove with exercise and what I eat my weight pretty much stays the same.

    For a while I was tracking calories, not to lose weight, but to understand my metabolic rates better, exercise expenditure (because I don't necessarily believe what my Garmin tells me I burned), and try to figure out how to balance it. MFP was a huge help there. I stopped tracking that long ago but I still pop into the forums.

    I might need to start tracking again though. I am hitting my peak for the upcoming Ironman and find I have accidentally dropped 5lbs recently even though I never really stop eating. Past few weeks I have been consuming on the order of 4000 calories a day and cant keep weight on. Fortunately I can back that off soon.

    I just happen to have exactly 5 that I can spare. :)
  • sarabushby
    sarabushby Posts: 784 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP?

    I initially tracked calories about 3yrs ago with 'biggest loser' prior to MFP to lose weight and now do so to stay in maintenance. I have an appetite the size of a small village and could eat for England if left to my own devices. I guess it's the comfort of being in control and to stop tracking would be losing that comfort blanket - I don't trust that I wouldn't gain my weight back (around 2stone).

    Besides, my friends get a cheap giggle out of my food diary lol.
  • gdyment
    gdyment Posts: 299 Member
    dee_thurman wrote: »
    If you guys can do triathlons and run multiple marathons, why MFP. Do you track your food and count your calories with all of the exercise you do? What function are you getting out of MFP? I started off tracking everyday but I have found a grove with exercise and what I eat my weight pretty much stays the same.

    Does someone with a huge variety of income and huge daily swings in spending need more or less tools to track their finances vs a retiree with a constant monthly pension and fixed expenses?

    My body is a big liar. Even though a 20km run will entitle me to a pizza, my liar body will request 2 pizzas. There are some days where I might be 1000 over or 1000 under and have absolutely no idea. Then an off day comes a long and it's a shock how little I get (relatively).
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    What will I need to swim in my first triathlon. Currently I have a pair of cheap regular swim trunks and that is what I have been training with. I have no cap, no goggles, no wetsuit, no anything else I might need. What do I NEED?
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    I guess the same question for the bike. I have a bike, a helmet, a pair of gloves, a case for my cell phone that fits on my bike, lights to ride when it is dark. What else do I need?
  • dee_thurman
    dee_thurman Posts: 240 Member
    I apologize for all of the questions but you guys have been extremely helpful. Everyone is new once right? Thanks again.
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