Alcohol, caloric deficit, and weight loss. Simple or not so simple?
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^^ I'll drink to that.
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Actually alcohol is poison to the body and it most certainly does stop fat oxidation while it is in your system. It doesn't really affect overall fat losses like kportmanshark was implying but you put her on blast for being unscientific and using anecdote over research then you stated some unscientific things yourself and stated your own anecdotal experience...kportmanshark wrote: »I have done some experimenting with drinking and weight loss. It for sure slows you down. Alcohol is a poison and your body will stop processing everything else until it deals with the alcohol, and that's a bigger problem than just the empty calories. I still have a beer once or twice a week but I count it as double calories.
I'd say if you have a reasonable drink two nights a week you're alright, but if you want to drink more then just be honest with yourself that you want the alcohol more than you want the weight loss. It's all about goals.
A real glass of wine is like 250kcal (technically a serving of 6oz is 140kcal or something but no one pours that). If you have four glasses of wine every week that's 1000kcal per week. That's 4000kcal per week or over a pound in lost progress. Add on top of that it will stop your body from processing the food you eat with it efficiency and cause extra fat gain there, and it will even equate to more. For sure keep it in moderation.
Were you wearing a lab coat while you did your science?
Single person untested, unmonitored tests are not proof of anything except what happened to you. Alcohol isn't a poison, it doesn't stop processing anything in your body. True over consumption can cause issues, but that's not the case in this instance. I drank more last week than I have in the better part of a year and I still lost weight (amusingly more than I would have thought too).
If I'm drinking at home I'll measure my alcohol, so please don't say "no one pours that" just because you don't know anyone who does, because I would lay down money (shiny nickel here people) I'm not the only one who does.
OP - You got the idea already
Measure your alcohol to ensure what you're actually consuming, or if you don't feel the need, just skip it altogether if you want.
I've never personally observed this but I rarely drink. When I get my most lean, I'm simply to hungry to use calories on alcohol on any kind of regular basis. There's no metabolic reason I can think of that would prevent additional body fat losses from occurring providing a calorie deficit is maintained.cwolfman13 wrote: »
Alcohol doesn't "for sure slow you down". While it is true that when alcohol is present in the body it will be prioritized and fat oxidation will cease, once the alcohol is burned off, the body will resume burning fat as normal. For this reason, if you account for the calories in alcohol fat loss is not affected. If you typically eat 2000 calories a day and decide to have 300 calories worth of alcohol, you are only slowed down if you do not reduce food intake to compensate. CICO still applies. Alcohol does not change anything.kportmanshark wrote: »I have done some experimenting with drinking and weight loss. It for sure slows you down. Alcohol is a poison and your body will stop processing everything else until it deals with the alcohol, and that's a bigger problem than just the empty calories. I still have a beer once or twice a week but I count it as double calories.
I'd say if you have a reasonable drink two nights a week you're alright, but if you want to drink more then just be honest with yourself that you want the alcohol more than you want the weight loss. It's all about goals.
A real glass of wine is like 250kcal (technically a serving of 6oz is 140kcal or something but no one pours that). If you have four glasses of wine every week that's 1000kcal per week. That's 4000kcal per week or over a pound in lost progress. Add on top of that it will stop your body from processing the food you eat with it efficiency and cause extra fat gain there, and it will even equate to more. For sure keep it in moderation.
In your example you state that 4 250 calorie glasses of wine a week equate to over a pound of lost progress in a month. This is only true if you add those glasses in above your normal intake. If you reduce intake to compensate for the calories in the wine then no progress is lost. I agree with those who state that drinking alcohol can lower inhibitions and lead to making poor food choices and that can indeed destroy one's deficit, but the alcohol itself does not prevent or even reduce overall fat loss if calories are accounted for.
@vismal I have a legit question and wondering if you or anyone else has experienced this. I stated in my previous post that I have no problem cutting at all while continuing to enjoy my drinks...pretty much done cutting my winter weight at this point...but that is until I hit about 12% BF which just generally seems to be my happy place and where I typically maintain...the only time outside of being in my 20s that I've been able to get down to 10% is when I substantially decrease my alcohol despite hitting on my calories...when I'm not drinking I make up for it with food. It's just something interesting I've observed over the past few years of doing this and just wondering. I'm hitting the beach for vacation soon and thought I'd roll in around 10% but this not drinking thing is kind of boring.2 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »i find that after i've been on a bit of a drinking binge that i am down on the scales for the next day (sometimes 2 pounds) but i think that is just because i'm the odd duck that doesn't like food when i've been drinking. i'm back to normal or a pound up after that depending on how badly i give in to hangover cravings.
I'm the same way but I think its because I pee out all my liquids and I'm dehydrated.0 -
debsdoingthis wrote: »I have a glass of wine a couple nights a week and on Saturday nights...woohoo, I may have 3 glasses. Work it into your calorie budget for the day. Have a great summer!
I like your style!0 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »i find that after i've been on a bit of a drinking binge that i am down on the scales for the next day (sometimes 2 pounds) but i think that is just because i'm the odd duck that doesn't like food when i've been drinking. i'm back to normal or a pound up after that depending on how badly i give in to hangover cravings.
I'm the same way but I think its because I pee out all my liquids and I'm dehydrated.
This is pretty typical actually. Alcohol is a diuretic so it causes the body to release water. I'm always a lb or two lighter after a night where I consume alcohol.0 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »i find that after i've been on a bit of a drinking binge that i am down on the scales for the next day (sometimes 2 pounds) but i think that is just because i'm the odd duck that doesn't like food when i've been drinking. i'm back to normal or a pound up after that depending on how badly i give in to hangover cravings.
I'm the same way but I think its because I pee out all my liquids and I'm dehydrated.
if only constant dehydration was an acceptable way to achieve weight loss goals
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kportmanshark wrote: »
I'd say if you have a reasonable drink two nights a week you're alright, but if you want to drink more then just be honest with yourself that you want the alcohol more than you want the weight loss. It's all about goals.
A real glass of wine is like 250kcal (technically a serving of 6oz is 140kcal or something but no one pours that).
It is all about goals. And there is no reason that you can't work alcohol into your calorie goals. I don't know what your definition of a "real glass of wine" is, but if you use a standard wine glass then you will be able to pour 6 ounces with no problem. I do it all the time. I usually measure and pour 5 ounces and my typical glass of wine is about 112 to 130 calories.
OP If you like to drink vodka that is a good way to go. I think that lots of people who say you have to completely cut out alcohol have trouble with overeating after they have had too much to drink. If you are able to limit yourself to a drink or two and don't have problems with snacking then you should be able to drink occasionally while still losing weight.1 -
Technically any food you eat inhibits stored fat oxidation. If your body can take energy from new supplies it will. If it uses them all up it will supplement with fat stores. So, 200 calories of alcohol slows weight loss more or less the same as 200 calories of cola or anything else really (actually, due to the thermogenic differences of the macros, you may lose weight slightly faster with alcohol than the cola). Neither is particularly good for the body, but in moderation and if you account for the calories there isn't much of a difference.
@cwolfman13 moderate alcohol consumption helps with insulin sensitivity (good for nutrient partitioning) and there is a study that shows that alcoholics had lower (or the same) BF% as social drinkers (granted, neither group was in particularly good shape). So, alcohol by itself doesn't seem to prevent getting to low BF%. I'm ~10% BF now, but typically I only consume alcohol once a week or less. Alcohol doesn't do much for satiety, so possibly you have a harder time really sticking to the diet when you start to get lean unless you cut the alcohol. Who knows?0 -
Alcohol doesn't "for sure slow you down". While it is true that when alcohol is present in the body it will be prioritized and fat oxidation will cease, once the alcohol is burned off, the body will resume burning fat as normal. For this reason, if you account for the calories in alcohol fat loss is not affected. If you typically eat 2000 calories a day and decide to have 300 calories worth of alcohol, you are only slowed down if you do not reduce food intake to compensate. CICO still applies. Alcohol does not change anything.
It does though. It is the first fuel to be used when combined with carbohydrates, fats and proteins, postponing the fat-burning process and contributing to greater fat storage. So while your body deals with the alcohol, it isn't dealing with the fat being stored.
Absolutely CICO still applies, but alcohol is empty calories and if you are trying to get reasonably thin you sure can't drink much and still get the nutrition you need.
On another point against alcohol (and again, I still drink sometimes), when I was fatter I could still drop weight and drink with some frequency, but once in a reasonable BMI I can't anymore. If I have two beers, that essentially takes a 1600kcal budget and reduces it to 1300kcal of actual food.Alcohol isn't a poison, it doesn't stop processing anything in your body.
Yeah it does. Your body doesn't get rid of fat while it is in your body. You put your fat loss on hold until it gets rid of the poison in the liver.
I love some booze sometimes too m8, but it's better not to be delusional about it being poison. I'm not implying you are, now you know. You can google it and read all about it.
Good on you. Around here you order wine in a restaurant you'll get way more than 6oz, that's what I was implying. But you are absolutely right, the smart dedicated people at home that measure it will be fine. Still poison, and still worse than having 130 good calories, but reasonable in calories.It is all about goals. And there is no reason that you can't work alcohol into your calorie goals. I don't know what your definition of a "real glass of wine" is, but if you use a standard wine glass then you will be able to pour 6 ounces with no problem. I do it all the time. I usually measure and pour 5 ounces and my typical glass of wine is about 112 to 130 calories.
Also goes back to when your huge you can sneak in 150-300kcal in a day easy because your TDEE is massive, but people trying to get into the lower normal BMI range don't have that room except in great moderation.0 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »i find that after i've been on a bit of a drinking binge that i am down on the scales for the next day (sometimes 2 pounds) but i think that is just because i'm the odd duck that doesn't like food when i've been drinking. i'm back to normal or a pound up after that depending on how badly i give in to hangover cravings.
I'm the same way but I think its because I pee out all my liquids and I'm dehydrated.
This is pretty typical actually. Alcohol is a diuretic so it causes the body to release water. I'm always a lb or two lighter after a night where I consume alcohol.
I'm usually a couple of pounds up the day after drinking (and it also happens after a 30 mile bike ride or a similar long cardio).0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I'm usually a couple of pounds up the day after drinking (and it also happens after a 30 mile bike ride or a similar long cardio).
Do you tend to eat more sodium when drinking?0 -
I drink vodka and OJ a few evenings per week. It actually decreases my appetite and dries me out so I don't gain.0
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kportmanshark wrote: »[
Good on you. Around here you order wine in a restaurant you'll get way more than 6oz, that's what I was implying. But you are absolutely right, the smart dedicated people at home that measure it will be fine. Still poison, and still worse than having 130 good calories, but reasonable in calories.
Also goes back to when your huge you can sneak in 150-300kcal in a day easy because your TDEE is massive, but people trying to get into the lower normal BMI range don't have that room except in great moderation.
I have a good 40-50 pounds to lose and I'm on the "aggressive" 2 pounds per week plans So I get 1420 calories per day, so I will definitely keep this in mind - I guess I'll see what the 1 or 2 drinks do to me and accommodate accordingly.1 -
I drink daily and can maintain if I keep food under control. If I run in the morning most days I can lose consistently.0
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alyssadanielle2493 wrote: »I guess I'll see what the 1 or 2 drinks do to me and accommodate accordingly.
Great idea. It's a marathon not a sprint. You can try different things and see how your weight loss progresses. If something doesn't work, can always adjust it.
That said, if you are already eating only 1420kcal per day - then to get all the nutrition, vitamins and minerals you need, every useful calorie counts. Say you have two glasses of wine (5oz ones like you measure), that's 1420kcal - 260kcal = 1160kcal left for quality food! Not very much!
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You are only looking at fat oxidation immediately after consumption of alcohol. Yes, during that period of time oxidation stops but that is more or less irrelevant. As nordlead pointed out, any time preferred fuel enters the system be it alcohol, carbs, etc, fat oxidation slows/stops. Ultimately if you burn more calories per day than you consume, you must use stored fuel to make up for the deficit. Ingestion of alcohol does not change this or slow it down. If you eat 2000 calories a day and burn 2500 calories a day you must use 500 calories worth of stored fuel. If you eat 1500 calories a day, drink 500 calories worth of alcohol a day and burn 2500 calories you are left with the exact same deficit and fat loss is not slowed. Your point about alcohol and nutrients is valid but has nothing to do with total fat loss being slowed by alcohol. Further, if you only drink once or twice a week, you should certainly be able to still eat a diet rich enough in micronutrients to meet all your requirements.kportmanshark wrote: »Alcohol doesn't "for sure slow you down". While it is true that when alcohol is present in the body it will be prioritized and fat oxidation will cease, once the alcohol is burned off, the body will resume burning fat as normal. For this reason, if you account for the calories in alcohol fat loss is not affected. If you typically eat 2000 calories a day and decide to have 300 calories worth of alcohol, you are only slowed down if you do not reduce food intake to compensate. CICO still applies. Alcohol does not change anything.
It does though. It is the first fuel to be used when combined with carbohydrates, fats and proteins, postponing the fat-burning process and contributing to greater fat storage. So while your body deals with the alcohol, it isn't dealing with the fat being stored.
Absolutely CICO still applies, but alcohol is empty calories and if you are trying to get reasonably thin you sure can't drink much and still get the nutrition you need.
On another point against alcohol (and again, I still drink sometimes), when I was fatter I could still drop weight and drink with some frequency, but once in a reasonable BMI I can't anymore. If I have two beers, that essentially takes a 1600kcal budget and reduces it to 1300kcal of actual food.2 -
I drank at least once a week throughout my weight loss (in maintenance now) and lost consistently. I would occasionally binge drink and have at least a couple of drinks a few nights a week. I ate a little bit less but didn't find it affected my losses much. In fact I read something about alcohol leaving your system much quicker than other food/drink, so the calories are not metabolised as well.0
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If it fits in your calories and you also eat food , you'll be fine. If your goal is 1600 and you consume 1600 in beer plus some vodka gummy bears, you won't be fine. Life lessons.1
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kportmanshark wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I'm usually a couple of pounds up the day after drinking (and it also happens after a 30 mile bike ride or a similar long cardio).
Do you tend to eat more sodium when drinking?
I don't tend to eat any different.
I also weigh more after I fly.0
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