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Telomere lengthening in humans? GOOD, BAD or Indifferent.

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  • JeromeBarry1JeromeBarry1 Posts: 10,115Member Member Posts: 10,115Member Member
    The original story is more a commercial announcement than a scientifically peer-reviewed journal publication.

    That said, it is being noted with interest in the investment community. If not as an equity opportunity, then as a line-item expenditure. If one had a few extra bucks and enjoyed even a small part of one's life, it makes perfectly good sense to take the treatment in the same hopes of long life and good health as we who are slogging through this journey together.
  • auddiiauddii Posts: 15,410Member Member Posts: 15,410Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    From this vague article, she performed the research on herself. The only reason to do that is to avoid federal regulations on research, and is incredibly stupid.

    The list of things we owe to self research is not insignificant.

    It's slightly different to compare research done in the modern era with research done in the 1500-1600s. There is a reason for standardized, organized, controlled research.

    A Nobel prize was given for the self research that proved that stomach ulcers could be caused by H. pylori.

    Barry Marshall and Robin Warren have conducted a lot of research on H pylori including multiple double-blind treatment/eradication studies. I really doubt that in the modern era of science that a nobel prize would be granted for single study of one researcher performing a study on themselves with no further research to support their claim.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    If this relationship is supported by more research it could support why weight loss involving high CO instead of low CI leads to net weight gains long term.

    One can control CI for life but at some point CO is going to decrease. This may be why lower CI is proven to be life extending. Calories In management may trump Calories Out management for health and weight management.

    Yesterday I saw a guy about 90 on his riding lawn mower. He as been moving all of his life selling gas and oil changes, etc. While there is a genetic factor in that family he has moved all of his life but nothing extreme.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »

    Telomerase is an enzyme that lengthens telomeres. It's used to develop immortal somatic cell cultures, and may be activated by exercise.

    Interesting. Paper about the relationship between telomere length and exercise: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    Wait, they did a base 10 transformation of the data because there wasn't a normal distribution but decided to write up the non-transformed data because it more closely represents biologically relevant data?

    It sounds like they were massaging the data. And not well. I can't see that they controlled for other differences that would affect telomere length.

    @auddii what is the area of your PhD studies?
  • ryry_ryry_ Posts: 4,966Member Member Posts: 4,966Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »

    Telomerase is an enzyme that lengthens telomeres. It's used to develop immortal somatic cell cultures, and may be activated by exercise.

    Interesting. Paper about the relationship between telomere length and exercise: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    Wait, they did a base 10 transformation of the data because there wasn't a normal distribution but decided to write up the non-transformed data because it more closely represents biologically relevant data?

    It sounds like they were massaging the data. And not well. I can't see that they controlled for other differences that would affect telomere length.

    @auddii what is the area of your PhD studies?

    Human and Molecular Genetics.

    @auddii please stop poking your nose where it doesnt belong. Grown ups are talking...




    :smiley:
  • EvgeniZyntxEvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,424Member Member Posts: 24,424Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    From this vague article, she performed the research on herself. The only reason to do that is to avoid federal regulations on research, and is incredibly stupid.

    The list of things we owe to self research is not insignificant.

    It's slightly different to compare research done in the modern era with research done in the 1500-1600s. There is a reason for standardized, organized, controlled research.

    A Nobel prize was given for the self research that proved that stomach ulcers could be caused by H. pylori.

    Barry Marshall and Robin Warren have conducted a lot of research on H pylori including multiple double-blind treatment/eradication studies. I really doubt that in the modern era of science that a nobel prize would be granted for single study of one researcher performing a study on themselves with no further research to support their claim.

    No, but that was the seminal study. n=1 but with a (self) control.

    I'm all about standardised, organised, controlled research and while there is value in some experiments on the self (optical theory owes a great bit to Newton poking blades into his eye....) the research in the OP is nothing short of a stunt and not research, IMHO.
  • auddiiauddii Posts: 15,410Member Member Posts: 15,410Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    From this vague article, she performed the research on herself. The only reason to do that is to avoid federal regulations on research, and is incredibly stupid.

    The list of things we owe to self research is not insignificant.

    It's slightly different to compare research done in the modern era with research done in the 1500-1600s. There is a reason for standardized, organized, controlled research.

    A Nobel prize was given for the self research that proved that stomach ulcers could be caused by H. pylori.

    Barry Marshall and Robin Warren have conducted a lot of research on H pylori including multiple double-blind treatment/eradication studies. I really doubt that in the modern era of science that a nobel prize would be granted for single study of one researcher performing a study on themselves with no further research to support their claim.

    No, but that was the seminal study. n=1 but with a (self) control.

    I'm all about standardised, organised, controlled research and while there is value in some experiments on the self (optical theory owes a great bit to Newton poking blades into his eye....) the research in the OP is nothing short of a stunt and not research, IMHO.

    Definitely agree.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »

    Telomerase is an enzyme that lengthens telomeres. It's used to develop immortal somatic cell cultures, and may be activated by exercise.

    Interesting. Paper about the relationship between telomere length and exercise: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    Wait, they did a base 10 transformation of the data because there wasn't a normal distribution but decided to write up the non-transformed data because it more closely represents biologically relevant data?

    It sounds like they were massaging the data. And not well. I can't see that they controlled for other differences that would affect telomere length.

    @auddii what is the area of your PhD studies?

    Human and Molecular Genetics.

    WOW! that has to be an exciting field. As you know in a relative new field like working with telomeres there are so many unknowns today that all of the research will needed to be repeated as we learn more on the subject in general.

    Pattern recognition is what I count on in all areas of life including medical research. You and I know peer reviews may be helpful in some established fields but often can cause more harm than good in areas like the studying of telomeres because of the biases/ignorance of those doing the reviewing.

    What I find of interest personally and as one with an earned OD degree is how much is in our control over our gene expressions just by what we eat and think. Epigenetics are so interesting.

    Are you working in the field of research today?
    edited April 2016
  • auddiiauddii Posts: 15,410Member Member Posts: 15,410Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »

    Telomerase is an enzyme that lengthens telomeres. It's used to develop immortal somatic cell cultures, and may be activated by exercise.

    Interesting. Paper about the relationship between telomere length and exercise: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    Wait, they did a base 10 transformation of the data because there wasn't a normal distribution but decided to write up the non-transformed data because it more closely represents biologically relevant data?

    It sounds like they were massaging the data. And not well. I can't see that they controlled for other differences that would affect telomere length.

    @auddii what is the area of your PhD studies?

    Human and Molecular Genetics.

    WOW! that has to be an exciting field. As you know in a relative new field like working with telomeres there are so many unknowns today that all of the research will needed to be repeated as we learn more on the subject in general.

    Pattern recognition is what I count on in all areas of life including medical research. You and I know peer reviews may be helpful in some established fields but often can cause more harm than good in areas like the studying of telomeres because of the biases/ignorance of those doing the reviewing.

    What I find of interest personally and as one with an earned OD degree is how much is in our control over our gene expressions just by what we eat and think. Epigenetics are so interesting.

    Are you working in the field of research today?

    You're an optometrist?

    I don't do my own research; I wasn't a fan of working at the bench and grant writing. I work in the regulation of research and get to read most of the research going on at our institution. I enjoy it much better; I get to read a very broad range of research which I find much more interesting.
  • Carlos_421Carlos_421 Posts: 4,907Member, Premium Member Posts: 4,907Member, Premium Member
    If the monster don't gitcha the mobs will!!!
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    lithezebra wrote: »

    Telomerase is an enzyme that lengthens telomeres. It's used to develop immortal somatic cell cultures, and may be activated by exercise.

    Interesting. Paper about the relationship between telomere length and exercise: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    Wait, they did a base 10 transformation of the data because there wasn't a normal distribution but decided to write up the non-transformed data because it more closely represents biologically relevant data?

    It sounds like they were massaging the data. And not well. I can't see that they controlled for other differences that would affect telomere length.

    @auddii what is the area of your PhD studies?

    Human and Molecular Genetics.

    WOW! that has to be an exciting field. As you know in a relative new field like working with telomeres there are so many unknowns today that all of the research will needed to be repeated as we learn more on the subject in general.

    Pattern recognition is what I count on in all areas of life including medical research. You and I know peer reviews may be helpful in some established fields but often can cause more harm than good in areas like the studying of telomeres because of the biases/ignorance of those doing the reviewing.

    What I find of interest personally and as one with an earned OD degree is how much is in our control over our gene expressions just by what we eat and think. Epigenetics are so interesting.

    Are you working in the field of research today?

    You're an optometrist?

    I don't do my own research; I wasn't a fan of working at the bench and grant writing. I work in the regulation of research and get to read most of the research going on at our institution. I enjoy it much better; I get to read a very broad range of research which I find much more interesting.

    Yes ( SCO Memphis TN 1986) I earned my degree in optometry after four hard years. I never did practice because I was in the process of losing mobility especially from waist up due to the very active Ankylosing Spondylitis and got into physical therapy 5 days a week. Because my hips had been bone on bone for years I had both hips replaced 1 Aug 1991.

    Aug 2014 the doctors wanted me to start on Enbrel injections in 90 days. My brain and my wife said NO to Enbrel but I was going to do it so I started studying and testing cancer treatments from Europe and Asia.

    Something in the back of my mind told me if I would get off of sugar and grains that would fix my pain and got my mind back on living to be 110. It did fix my pain for the most part in only 30 days after I left them cold turkey Oct 2014 and started walking me backwards from a premature death due to my 63 years Way Of Eating.

    I too love reading a very broad range of research even well beyond health care.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    If the monster don't gitcha the mobs will!!!

    @Carlos_421 that is so true. While there is excitement about living longer by developing ways to make our telomeres longer research also indicates there are increased risks of lung and brain cancers associated with longer telomeres.

    It seems like the 120 year limit on human life mentioned in ancient writings has some valid when we see most who make it to 100 do not make it to 120.

    We are going down but I really want to be walking and talking all the way up to that day where it be today or 50 years from now. :)
  • tomtebodatomteboda Posts: 2,176Member Member Posts: 2,176Member Member
    Epigenetics is absolutely in its infancy. A heavy dose of skepticism is warranted.
  • robininflrobininfl Posts: 1,144Member Member Posts: 1,144Member Member
    lithezebra wrote: »

    Telomerase is an enzyme that lengthens telomeres. It's used to develop immortal somatic cell cultures, and may be activated by exercise.

    Interesting. Paper about the relationship between telomere length and exercise: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    OK I asked for a translation from my science-literate daughter (biologist), I asked:

    Subject: translate, please
    From Science, not French.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2581416/

    I believe this is saying that:
    Moderate exercise is associated with delay in progression of cell dying in the cells with telomerase activity.
    Inactivity or Too Much Exercise is associated with a quicker progression to cell death in the same cells
    And
    This effect is as big as the effect of psychological stress, infectious disease, or cardiovascular disease, in other words very significant.

    Is this correct and are telomeres important to aging well? It makes logical sense to me from a civilian view – living well is protective, people with enough leisure time are healthier, moving around is better for you than being idle, but too much physical work will wear you out more than it helps you – but am not sure what the “telomeres” do, exactly, what effect does it have on people’s lives and health? Or are they just a measure of time left, like a clock?


    And she answers:

    Okay, there's a lot going on here, so I'm going to break it down for you as well as I know how.

    Telomeres are regions of repeated DNA at the end of chromosomes. They don't code for anything, but when DNA is copied (to make new cells) a little bit has to be left off at the end every time, so these large regions of extra DNA are there to protect the regions that do code for proteins and other important biological molecules. Telomerase is the enzyme that adds telomeres to the ends of your chromosomes, particularly during sex cell formation and fertilization. However, cell death is as important a process as cell division, and active telomerase is one of the things that's associated with cancerous growths, because the cells divide and divide out of control without ever reaching the end of their telomeres. So there's an inherent tradeoff between cell longevity and cancers balancing on telomerase activity.

    This article is saying that moderate exercise is associated with longer telomeres, but also found that physical activity is not correlated with telomerase activity. They explain that, despite a 70 person sample size (which isn't that big in large-scale genomic research) their research is significant and in line with other groups' findings, but that because it's a correlational study, they can't really suggest a mechanism for why people with moderate exercise levels have longer telomeres than their idle or very active counterparts. That'll be the next step, I'm guessing.

    It's important to keep in mind that telomeres are not the only reason people age. For example, the lamin proteins that hold DNA's shape in the nucleus also begin to break down. They're just one easily measurable marker of genetic aging that have made rounds in pop culture. From an evolutionary perspective, we age because it's a surer bet to keep our genes in the population through maximizing offspring rather investing in longevity lasting 'till the end of time, because accidental death is always a possibility.



  • RodaRoseRodaRose Posts: 9,547Member Member Posts: 9,547Member Member
    @robininfl That is helpful. Thanks.
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