"The Final Nail in the Cardio Coffin"
Replies
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Bump to read later.. need to get on the bandwagon and switch up my routine. Mainly doing cardio, 6x per week at 45-60 min a clip, and then some strength training and yoga 2x per week.0
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I'm not sure what you mean by that, but working at a higher intensity will burn more calories than a lower intensity pure and simple. Generally a higher intensity will mean a higher heart rate, although I will allow there may be exceptions to that. Basically for fat loss cardio is the least effective option.
Calories burned and the stress(cortisol) response of your body are the biggest difference. Grams of fat burned at 55% Max HR for 45 minutes and grams burnt during 45 minutes at 85% Max HR is nearly the same. http://www.myfooddiary.com/resources/ask_the_expert/fat-burning_zone_myth.asp
We need to treat our cardio vascular system more like we do or muscle. Brief, hard, infrequent workouts. Manage fat loss through calorie load and where those calories come from. Keep physical and mental stress to the minimum. Get more sleep.0 -
I have mixed feelings about that article.
On one hand it makes a good point. That is too many people when it comes to getting a nicer physique fall into the "cut calories drastically, do endless amount of low intensity steady state" category and end up not looking the way they want. This is especially true if they do no resistance training whatsoever or impair the resistance work they do with tons of steady stae cardio.
On the other hand, it seems to make the argument that high intensity work is, to nick a phrase from Matt Perryman, "The One True Way" which is of course nonsense. It makes me think that someone wants to try and sell me something when that card is played
As anyone who has engaged in both HIT and HIIT at the same time (clue: me) will tell you this potent combination has the massive potential downside of sending your recovery ability up in smoke real quick. Managing recovery and stress outside of the gym is just as important, if not more so, than what you do inside it. When you are running a calorie deficit this is just one more thing to chuck into the mix which will impair recovery.
In reality low instensity steady state cardio is a very useful tool in your fat loss armoury if you implement it properly and in appropriate doses. Now, I find it as dull as dishwater myself. However, I understand that it has multiple benefits which makes the boredom a little more palatable...0 -
In reality low instensity steady state cardio is a very useful tool in your fat loss armoury if you implement it properly and in appropriate doses. Now, I find it as dull as dishwater myself. However, I understand that it has multiple benefits which makes the boredom a little more palatable...
Yeah just not insane amounts of it and truly low intensity.0 -
Wow. I love this. It confirms in a small way what I have been thinking on my own for a while. Makes sense.0
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I love Rachel Cosgrove and her books! Also love "New Rules of LIfting for Women" by Lou Schuoler and Alwyn Cosgrove even tho it's basically a spin off of Rachel's book "Female Body Breakthrough" I knew all the info from reading Rachel's book a couple years ago and have been lifting heavy ever since but Lou's book just reinerated alot of it and gave me some new routines! Thanks for posting!0
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well said msf740
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I'm not sure what you mean by that, but working at a higher intensity will burn more calories than a lower intensity pure and simple. Generally a higher intensity will mean a higher heart rate, although I will allow there may be exceptions to that. Basically for fat loss cardio is the least effective option.
Calories burned and the stress(cortisol) response of your body are the biggest difference. Grams of fat burned at 55% Max HR for 45 minutes and grams burnt during 45 minutes at 85% Max HR is nearly the same. http://www.myfooddiary.com/resources/ask_the_expert/fat-burning_zone_myth.asp
We need to treat our cardio vascular system more like we do or muscle. Brief, hard, infrequent workouts. Manage fat loss through calorie load and where those calories come from. Keep physical and mental stress to the minimum. Get more sleep.
Ok, now I understand what you are saying. Yes, the "fat burning zone" is one of the biggest myths out there along with long duration steady state cardio being a good fat burner.0 -
I have mixed feelings about that article.
On one hand it makes a good point. That is too many people when it comes to getting a nicer physique fall into the "cut calories drastically, do endless amount of low intensity steady state" category and end up not looking the way they want. This is especially true if they do no resistance training whatsoever or impair the resistance work they do with tons of steady stae cardio.
On the other hand, it seems to make the argument that high intensity work is, to nick a phrase from Matt Perryman, "The One True Way" which is of course nonsense. It makes me think that someone wants to try and sell me something when that card is played
As anyone who has engaged in both HIT and HIIT at the same time (clue: me) will tell you this potent combination has the massive potential downside of sending your recovery ability up in smoke real quick. Managing recovery and stress outside of the gym is just as important, if not more so, than what you do inside it. When you are running a calorie deficit this is just one more thing to chuck into the mix which will impair recovery.
In reality low instensity steady state cardio is a very useful tool in your fat loss armoury if you implement it properly and in appropriate doses. Now, I find it as dull as dishwater myself. However, I understand that it has multiple benefits which makes the boredom a little more palatable...
While it is true that HIT and HIIT can do a number of your recovery it strikes me the main reason that is the case is because many people enter into that type of workout modality with a cardio mindset. So they take these high intensity modalities and try to do them every day without sufficient rest and recovery time allowed. That is a recipe for disaster.
Of course the number of repetitive movement injuries from long duration cardio due to the huge amount to time doing them is very high as well. They are not overtraining things, but they are just as much of a problem, in fact some of them a more of a problem because they are often so hard to treat because they are the result of long term cumulative damage.0 -
ooh.
Erm...
I spend about 6 hours a week on a bike or a treadmill or an eliptical. :O|
I spend about 40 minutes MAX a week with free weights.
I usually throw in a few minutes to remind my muscles I still need them.
I look good, I feel good but... I do have that flabby bit (bits) LOTS)) LOL
I'm not sure how to fix this. I think I'm still asleep so forgive me.
I'm assuming I need to do some HIIT if I want to still use the cardio machines effectively?
I've been using a training MP3 on a stationary bike which has me sprinting for short bursts so assume this is good!
I'll add more strength training and make it a proper routine as opposed to something I add on in the middle.
Thanks for this.
Any further advice appreciated.
Thanks
Amanda
The cardio in mind is the long duration, steady state type. Think those who try to get their heart rate in a certain zone and keep it there for 45 minutes to an hour every day.
What you want to do is Interval Training (like you are with the MP3), HIIT which is similar but you jack up the intensity a lot, Metabolic Resistance Training, Tabata training and the like. All of them will do more for fat loss than all that Cardio.
Thanks for this too.
I'm about to go to the gym so will see what I can today to incorporate what you guys have said.
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So, if I am trying to lose the last 10 lbs...right now I do Chalene Extreme 3X/week(using heavier weights, fewer reps), as my strength training program (I need someone to keep me on track and showing me what to do next, along with motivating me to keep going) along with short cardio sessions on those days..I do a combination of different types of cardio on 3 other days (love kickboxing, turbo jam, tae bo and interval running on the treadmill at the gym)..I also just started a Crossfit class at the gym...I usually take one day/week off or just do yoga or stretching or abs on that day...I don't know if kickboxing and Tae Bo are considered "steady-state" cardio sessions...I have been at a plateau for awhile and want to tone up and lose these last 10 by summer...any advice would be appreciated!0
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I posted the link originally and I'm glad it got it's own thread now. :flowerforyou:
My experience of doing an Ironman was exactly the same as Rachel Cosgrove's which is how I came across her originally.
And her New Rules of Lifting book is great.
Another very interesting article in a similar theme is by Tom Venuto regarding slowing metabolism and cardiovascular adaptation.
http://www.burnthefatblog.com/archives/2011/04/cardio-and-metabolism.php0 -
So, if I am trying to lose the last 10 lbs...right now I do Chalene Extreme 3X/week(using heavier weights, fewer reps), as my strength training program (I need someone to keep me on track and showing me what to do next, along with motivating me to keep going) along with short cardio sessions on those days..I do a combination of different types of cardio on 3 other days (love kickboxing, turbo jam, tae bo and interval running on the treadmill at the gym)..I also just started a Crossfit class at the gym...I usually take one day/week off or just do yoga or stretching or abs on that day...I don't know if kickboxing and Tae Bo are considered "steady-state" cardio sessions...I have been at a plateau for awhile and want to tone up and lose these last 10 by summer...any advice would be appreciated!
kickboxing is definitely not steady state cardio
From the limited youtube vids I saw on chalean extreme, it looks like a lot of isolation movements. You want to focus on compound exercises (one's that hit as many muscles as possible) and progressively increase weights. Exercises you should focus on are squats, deadlifts, bench/overhead press, chin ups, dips. This hits everything (and takes heaps less time) 0 -
Also do Crossfit type circuits with a day of kettlebell intervals, 2 days of HIIT (23 minutes) and one day of walking for 30 minutes on the treadmill. My weight training (Crossfit) days are 15-20 minutes of heavy, high intensity compound lifting (deadlifts, cleans, squats, weighted vest pushups/pullups/dips) with a 15 minute P90X or Insanity ab session immediately following. The kettlebell workouts are typically 15 minutes of alternating arm swings and two arm swings (no get ups or anything like that).
Since switching to the shorter workouts and implementing a Paleo diet the bodyfat/pant sizes have dropped like crazy. I had completed 5+ rounds of P90X/Insanity and it was beating the heck out of my elbow joints. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Beachbody programs and they got me into great cardiovascular shape but I'm at the point now where my body doesn't require 60 minute workouts.
As far as the cardio aspect, Mark Sisson (Primal Blueprint) refers to all of the running, etc as "chronic cardio." I see people on the Beachbody programs that get so gung ho that they do a P90X workout and then go run 5k or do "doubles" with an Insanity workout. Pure overkill, IMO. I now firmly believe that "less is more" when it comes to cardio and short bursts/HIIT is where it's at.0 -
Bumping to read over and over again. Maybe this will help me change my mindset!0
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bump0
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bump-want to read all this after work0
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I just bought this book and started the workouts this week. I was surprised that the short strength workout had such an impact on my body; I'm still sore two days later! I will definitely continue with the workouts!I buy it completely. Her husband has some input in my favorite book "The New Rules of Weight Lifting for Women" by Lou Schuler.
Women if you want to get sexy - lift heavy weights! Get going!0 -
Bumping this.....
LESS IS MORE!0 -
BUMP! I have got to figure all this out! I am killing myself at the gym 6 days a week on the DREADMILL. I am losing but I want to be strong too. I am planing on doing C25K in August should I just do that and start with free weights as well? I have a month of hiking, kayaking, walking and swimming, no gym no scale coming up and I am a bit worried about my progress slowing down! I am a caterpillar and I want to be a butterfly that kick some *kitten*!0
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Thank you for this I have been relying on cardio as my workout to lose weight
I was originally doing Jillian Michaels 30 day shred and saw great results and since stopping that I felt that my mid-section was getting a bit flabby again 
I was also thinking of switching to doing HIIT and this article made that choice easy. I guess I will be starting the shred again!! Thanks for the great info. :happy:
This is exactly what I was thinking. I def. saw big changes in my body when I was doing the shred. I am going to go back to it tonight. My abs were beginning to form and since I stopped the shred, I don't see them as much.0 -
There's an Australian show called "What's Good For You" and they did a segment once about this doctor who did research on the most efficient and effective way to lose weight. He said basically the same thing about short bursts of exertion to raise the heart rate then a short rest period and so on. They said they came up with an equation that for 20 minutes a day on a stationery bike they rode as hard and as fast as they could for 8 seconds and then normal speed 12 seconds (not sure on this number might be 10), and they did this for the entire 20 minutes. They said they tried all kind of variations on time, but this was the one they found to be the best for a number of reasons. All the people that were part of the study lost more weight than people doing other types of work outs. I have not tried this yet, because I do physical therapy now (strength training) and I ride my bike there and home or walk. However, I might try doing once a week on the stationery bike and work myself up to more days, especially after reading this. Kind of reaffirms what I saw on the show.0
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BUMP! I have got to figure all this out! I am killing myself at the gym 6 days a week on the DREADMILL. I am losing but I want to be strong too. I am planing on doing C25K in August should I just do that and start with free weights as well? I have a month of hiking, kayaking, walking and swimming, no gym no scale coming up and I am a bit worried about my progress slowing down! I am a caterpillar and I want to be a butterfly that kick some *kitten*!
I'd take 3 of those days and do strength training with supersetting. My heart rate gets WAY more elevated doing weights than any kind of cardio, running included.0 -
I love your goal! I was doing New Rules of Lifting for Women before I went on vacation, and while my weight went up a couple pounds at first due to water gain from mild inflammation (sore muscles), the inches were coming off. I need to get back into it as soon as I recover from my post-vacation cold. I do cardio in the form of biking, occasional swimming, and zumba. I don't try to do those every day, but keep it up because I enjoy it and want to improve my cardio fitness. I will have to look into kettlebell routines a bit, and give that a try for interval training.I want to weigh what my Saint Bernard weighs0 -
Dumped the long, intense cardio workouts for three 45 minute walks a week. Train heavy with weights the other three. The walking burns the fat WHILE sparing the hard earned muscle that I've put on in the weight room.0
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Bump!0
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bump0
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Very glad to see this. Something I've been wondering about for a while.
I decided to go balls to the wall with exercise and have been to the gym at least 6 days per week doing around 40-60 minutes of elliptical each time. I probably lost about 8-10 pounds in a 5 week period but plateaued VERY quickly despite adding 30 day shred and doing it just about every day with only 2 or 3 sessions missed. I've been at a plateau for at least 2 weeks and it is not budging to the point that I think something has got to be wrong with my scale!
My clothes are fitting differently though and I know I'm looking better so that's motivation, but I would love to lose another ten pounds or so.
I'm going to try to cut the cardio to 3-4 times per week and maybe add in an extra shred somewhere.
Does this make sense?
I'm almost afraid to do it because I feel like in my mind I'm failing and I'm concerned the power of suggestion will make the scale creep.
Stupid, I know.
Thoughts?0 -
Bump0
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Very glad to see this. Something I've been wondering about for a while.
I decided to go balls to the wall with exercise and have been to the gym at least 6 days per week doing around 40-60 minutes of elliptical each time. I probably lost about 8-10 pounds in a 5 week period but plateaued VERY quickly despite adding 30 day shred and doing it just about every day with only 2 or 3 sessions missed. I've been at a plateau for at least 2 weeks and it is not budging to the point that I think something has got to be wrong with my scale!
My clothes are fitting differently though and I know I'm looking better so that's motivation, but I would love to lose another ten pounds or so.
I'm going to try to cut the cardio to 3-4 times per week and maybe add in an extra shred somewhere.
Does this make sense?
I'm almost afraid to do it because I feel like in my mind I'm failing and I'm concerned the power of suggestion will make the scale creep.
Stupid, I know.
Thoughts?
If you have the time, focus and ability to do that much exercise, then something like 30 DS is a complete waste of time, IMO. It is a mediocre program to begin with.
The problem with cardio is not necessarily "excessive" cardio as much as it is unfocused cardio. I have read the anecdote from rachel cosgrove in numerous places and every time I read it, my first reaction is not, oh, cardio is bad, but "wow you must have been doing some incredibly crappy cardio training".
A balanced program includes endurance cardio, tempo cardio, interval cardio and weights. If you are a group exercise type person, maybe a higher intensity circuit training instead of weights.
It would also be a good idea to have your body fat tested to make sure your scale goals are appropriate.
Just some things to think about.0
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