Interesting Info on 'Starvation Mode'

Widdy1961 · January 2009

Hi

I was checking out some other 'Health' Forums (in the UK) and came across this post by a 'Medic' in reply to a question about the body going into 'Starvation Mode'...........very interesting............

"Right, as a medic I feel I have to dispel this myth about going into starvation mode once and for all, weight plateaus are normal but there is no such thing as your body going into starvation mode by being on a severely reduced calorie intake, if that were the case, how do people become anorexic?, yes at some point your body will start losing muscle and not fat but this is why this Dr has recommended the exercise to keep the metabolism going, everyone has a BMR irrespective of the exercise you do and even if you were just lying in bed all day everyday and not eating anything, you would lose weight, you wouldn't go into 'starvation mode' and stop losing weight.

The current medical thinking regarding VLCD's is that these are the way to go for morbidly obese people to lose weight RAPIDLY, but they shouldn't be doing massive amounts of exercise in conjunction with a VLCD.

Having said all this, for someone who has just a few pounds to lose and is not morbidly obese, a general healthy diet and exercise is the key to long term weight loss and maintenance.

Everyones weight will plateau at some point, if you lose weight rapidly, you will plateau for a week or so as rapid weight loss shocks the body to some degree so it needs time to catch up, but by sticking to the VLCD, you will continue to lose weight over a period of time.

The reason why VLCD's are now recommended for morbidly obese people is that the focus is on getting the weight off quickly as it is so dangerous to health being so overweight, but once the weight comes down, you have to move back up the calorie plans carefully to start consuming more calories and reduce rapid weight loss to lead to a healthy calorific intake and weight maintenance, they should never be recommended for anyone who doesn't have a significant amount of weight to lose."

Widdy

Widdy1961 · January 2009

Hi

I was checking out some other 'Health' Forums (in the UK) and came across this post by a 'Medic' in reply to a question about the body going into 'Starvation Mode'...........very interesting............

"Right, as a medic I feel I have to dispel this myth about going into starvation mode once and for all, weight plateaus are normal but there is no such thing as your body going into starvation mode by being on a severely reduced calorie intake, if that were the case, how do people become anorexic?, yes at some point your body will start losing muscle and not fat but this is why this Dr has recommended the exercise to keep the metabolism going, everyone has a BMR irrespective of the exercise you do and even if you were just lying in bed all day everyday and not eating anything, you would lose weight, you wouldn't go into 'starvation mode' and stop losing weight.

The current medical thinking regarding VLCD's is that these are the way to go for morbidly obese people to lose weight RAPIDLY, but they shouldn't be doing massive amounts of exercise in conjunction with a VLCD.

Having said all this, for someone who has just a few pounds to lose and is not morbidly obese, a general healthy diet and exercise is the key to long term weight loss and maintenance.

Everyones weight will plateau at some point, if you lose weight rapidly, you will plateau for a week or so as rapid weight loss shocks the body to some degree so it needs time to catch up, but by sticking to the VLCD, you will continue to lose weight over a period of time.

The reason why VLCD's are now recommended for morbidly obese people is that the focus is on getting the weight off quickly as it is so dangerous to health being so overweight, but once the weight comes down, you have to move back up the calorie plans carefully to start consuming more calories and reduce rapid weight loss to lead to a healthy calorific intake and weight maintenance, they should never be recommended for anyone who doesn't have a significant amount of weight to lose."

Widdy

laurajane81 · January 2009

H,i so if i exercise i dont have to eat the kcals and i will be fine? sorry im new at this i am very over weight at 233 and eat around 1400 kcals a day with exercise im allowed a extra 450 but i never eat it. i was just concerned about this as i read someones post this morning .... hope this all makes sense xx

lucmclaren381 · January 2009

Great question , was thinking the same thing\!!!!
Help???!!!

Widdy1961 · January 2009

Hi

I would advise eating ALL your exercise calories, as not doing so will slow down your metabolic rate and enable you to lose weight at your chosen rate........although they are saying that 'Starvation Mode' is a Myth, eating too few calories does SLOW weight loss.

Check this from Weight Watchers...............................................................

"The idea that 'not eating enough' causes the body to stop losing weight because it goes into 'starvation mode' is a popular myth among dieters.

Metabolism Slows During Calorie Restriction
Restricting calories during weight loss lowers metabolism1 because the body becomes more efficient, requiring fewer calories to perform the necessary daily functions for survival. Consequently, this can slow (but not stop) the anticipated rate of weight loss.

For example, if an individual needs 2,000 calories per day to maintain weight, reducing intake to 1,500 calories, assuming exercise stays the same, should provide a 1lb per week weight loss (Note: 1lb of weight is equivalent to about 3,500 calories). Furthermore, reducing to 1,000 calories should result in a weight loss of 2lb per week and going down to 500 calories a day should result in a weight loss of 3lb per week. However, if an individual actually reduces their intake to 500 calories, the weight loss would not likely be a steady 3lb per week because of the reduced metabolic rate. It would likely be around 2¼ to 2½lb. This 'lower than expected' rate of weight loss is a lot different to 'no' weight loss as the 'starvation mode' notion proposes.

It is unclear as to whether the relationship between reduced caloric intake and a lower metabolism follows a straight path or becomes more pronounced the greater the caloric reduction. Some studies have found no significant reduction in metabolism until the caloric restriction is quite large (e.g. 800 calories or less per day).2 Others suggest a linear relationship with small reductions in metabolism accompanying small reductions in caloric restriction, with the gap increasing as the caloric deficit is enlarged.

While there is no biologic evidence to support the 'starvation mode' myth, there may be behavioural reasons why weight loss stops when calories are severely reduced."

Only reason I looked into this is, I was having trouble losing any more weight and, as suggested on MFP, wondered if I was in 'Starvation Mode'...............so we do not STOP losing weight, we just do not lose it so quickly if we reduce calorie intake too much.

Widdy

may_marie · January 2009

Whoa,,, you just rocked my world upside down...

i am not too sure what to think.. its very interesting and thank you for posting !!!
now i have to change my mindset,

dont restrict too much calories because it will slow down my metabolism (not starve...)

i think i got it :glasses:

jackeh · January 2009

uhhhhh isnt that the idea of what starvation mode is? you reduce your calories too much it will slow your metabolic rate= starvation mode
you want to up your metabolic rate!!! so if you eat your recomended calories and exercise you can achieve this....
I find your articals condesending... sorry .....
Yes an anorexic is thin because of their very high calorie defisit but there are a lot of other complications that come with that like heart problems because your body is working so hard on so little energy to keep you alive...

Just my thoughts

Widdy1961 · January 2009

Whoa,,, you just rocked my world upside down...

i am not too sure what to think.. its very interesting and thank you for posting !!!
now i have to change my mindset,

dont restrict too much calories because it will slow down my metabolism (not starve...)

i think i got it :glasses:

You are welcome :flowerforyou:

I thought it was interesting and I am still reading and investigating.

It appears that a Very Low Calorie Intake is useful if you have loads of weight to lose but once you start to get nearer your target, then you need to steadily increase your intake (as your BMR would have changed), which means 'Eat More to Lose Weight' which goes against logic.

The main plus point here is.....you don't have to starve yorself to be able to lose the weight.

Widdy

Widdy1961 · January 2009

uhhhhh isnt that the idea of what starvation mode is? you reduce your calories it will slow your metabolic rate= starvation mode
you want to up your metabolic rate!!! so if you eat your recomended calories and exercise you can achieve this....
I find your articals condesending... sorry .....
Yes an anorexic is thin because of their very high calorie defisit but there are a lot of other complications that come with that like heart problems because your body is working so hard on so little energy to keep you alive...

Hi jackeh

I think a lot of people think that 'Starvation Mode' is the body refusing to lose any weight (obviously wrong) and this is the point the quotes are making........it's not 'Starvation Mode' it's more like 'Metabolic Slow Down Mode'.......even if you reduce your calories to a very low number, you will still lose weight but will plateau just the same as you would on a higher calorie plan.

Widdy

iftcheiaf · January 2009

Funny you should post this because my husband and I have b een discussing it. His question was how do anorexics lose weight if they go into starvation mode? This makes a lot of sense. And I agree with Jackeh that there are a lot of other detriments to anorexia. But I personally think I have been eating TOO many calories for my body because I have lost NOTHING!!! Some of it maybe medication related. But I'm going to tweak things a little bit more...but in a healthy way... and see if I can change my body a little bit. Thanks for posting

jackeh · January 2009

I just feel that your top artical in particular is pushing Very high calorie deficits which is not good for most people!! I am afraid that an artical like that might be taken the wrong way and people will start eating too few calories!!! Your body is a machine and we need to treat it like the most important machine ever... and to run a machine we need fuel!!! and the better quality of fuel you provide your body the more efficient it is!!!! If you start providing your body with an inadequite amount of fuel (even if its a good quality fuel) your body will not be able to move forward through the day ....
I still recommend eating all your calories and most or all of your exercise calories...:bigsmile:

Widdy1961 · January 2009

I just feel that your top artical in particular is pushing Very high calorie deficits which is not good for most people!! I am afraid that an artical like that might be taken the wrong way and people will start eating too few calories!!! Your body is a machine and we need to treat it like the most important machine ever... and to run a machine we need fuel!!! and the better quality of fuel you provide your body the more efficient it is!!!! If you start providing your body with an inadequite amount of fuel (even if its a good quality fuel) your body will not be able to move forward through the day ....
I still recommend eating all your calories and most or all of your exercise calories...:bigsmile:

I am not PUSHING anything merely posting something that may be of interest, although I would make it clear that the 'Article' is not mine, it was a reply by a 'Medic' to a post on a fitness forum regarding 'Starvation Mode', I just thought it interesting to hear this from someone who has the medical knowledge that most of us do not posess.

I have done a lot of research lately and wherever you go on the internet, there seems to be no 'clear' guidelines, lots of contradiction, although the common consensus is that you do NOT lower your calories too much, in fact, I found one site that warns of losing more than 1/2 lb per week.

I suppose it depends where you look but the Very Low Calorie Intake is for the Morbidly Obese ONLY and ONLY under the strict monitoring of a GP or Dietician.

Maybe I ought to keep anything else I think may be of interest to myself.

Widdy

TRLTAMPA · January 2009

Annorexics are starving!! So they lose. They lose muscle and nutrients. They keep skin and bones. That's why they exercise manicly and still look like a bag of bones. They're not tone or strong, even after 4 hrs in the gym every day.
They look like cancer patients!
And the article says right there it's to help people lose rapidly. We don't want rapid loss. That causes excess skin and no definition. And it's easy to go back to the bad habits after you're done.

arewethereyet · January 2009

In my opinion, starvation is an extreme word. The idea that our metabolism slows down due to a change in eating habits is a better way to express it, and makes natural sense.

I was on a 1200 calorie a day diet, exercised each day for 1 hour with Gilad (high impact aerobics) and did not eat after 6 pm. I lost a steady 2 pounds a week with 1 plateau.

I was also a miserable witch! I was angry, sullen, weak, tired and a real pain to be around. 8 weeks it took me to lose the weight and 8 months to put it back on and gain an addl 10.

I have been losing weight using MFP since June 08. I eat 1/2 to all of my exercise calories in addition to the 1200 it recc for 1 pound loss a week. I have lost 27 pounds and when I hit a plateau, I added addl calories. Yes ADDED! By that time I had increased the muscle in my body and it needed more fuel.

The word starvation is used as a shock tool! But I think it refers to the fact that our bodies were made to hunt and gather. In the winter months, many many moons ago, there were no Super Walmarts to get bread and milk. You had to do with what was stored in the pantry. The body slowed to preserve and use the fuel effiecently. (sp?)

We each must find what works for us. If 1200 is not working for you, eat your exercise cals for 2 weeks and see if it makes a difference. I went 8 weeks in a plateau and broke it by doubling my cals for 1 day...think the body isnt smart?

jackeh · January 2009

I just feel that your top artical in particular is pushing Very high calorie deficits which is not good for most people!! I am afraid that an artical like that might be taken the wrong way and people will start eating too few calories!!! Your body is a machine and we need to treat it like the most important machine ever... and to run a machine we need fuel!!! and the better quality of fuel you provide your body the more efficient it is!!!! If you start providing your body with an inadequite amount of fuel (even if its a good quality fuel) your body will not be able to move forward through the day ....
I still recommend eating all your calories and most or all of your exercise calories...:bigsmile:

I am not PUSHING anything merely posting something that may be of interest, although I would make it clear that the 'Article' is not mine, it was a reply by a 'Medic' to a post on a fitness forum regarding 'Starvation Mode', I just thought it interesting to hear this from someone who has the medical knowledge that most of us do not posess.

I have done a lot of research lately and wherever you go on the internet, there seems to be no 'clear' guidelines, lots of contradiction, although the common consensus is that you do NOT lower your calories too much, in fact, I found one site that warns of losing more than 1/2 lb per week.

I suppose it depends where you look but the Very Low Calorie Intake is for the Morbidly Obese ONLY and ONLY under the strict monitoring of a GP or Dietician.

Maybe I ought to keep anything else I think may be of interest to myself.

Widdy

Please dont take what i say the wrong way... I am just giving my opinion and what i have learned in the past year.... :flowerforyou:

lessertess · January 2009

Team,

This article isn't telling us anything we didn't already know. For the morbidly obese, a higher calorie deficit for rapid weight loss is ok. Biggest Loser does this. However, if you are morbidly obese and on a very low calorie diet you should be doing it under the supervision of a doctor.

For those who are NOT MORBIDLY OBESE, an extremely low calorie diet is not a good idea?

Why? Because it can not be sustained. When you have a very low calorie diet, your metabolism slows down, you don't feel well, you can get regular exercise and you lose more muscle along with the fat. As soon as you go back on a regular food regime, your slower metabolism and lower muscle content will cause you to gain more weight.

This results in you going on another "starvation diet" where you slow your metabolism and lose muscle. When you go back to eating regularly you gain weight and this time it's fat not muscle.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

Widdy1961 · January 2009

Team,

This article isn't telling us anything we didn't already know. For the morbidly obese, a higher calorie deficit for rapid weight loss is ok. Biggest Loser does this. However, if you are morbidly obese and on a very low calorie diet you should be doing it under the supervision of a doctor.

For those who are NOT MORBIDLY OBESE, an extremely low calorie diet is not a good idea?

Why? Because it can not be sustained. When you have a very low calorie diet, your metabolism slows down, you don't feel well, you can get regular exercise and you lose more muscle along with the fat. As soon as you go back on a regular food regime, your slower metabolism and lower muscle content will cause you to gain more weight.

This results in you going on another "starvation diet" where you slow your metabolism and lose muscle. When you go back to eating regularly you gain weight and this time it's fat not muscle.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

It told me something I did not know, so sorry if it did not interest anyone else.

Not EVERYONE on MFP will know this (or maybe they do and it's just me)

Jeez!

songbyrdsweet · January 2009

The first article cracked me up a little bit when he said "If so, how do people become anorexics?"

He should be saying, "Why don't people just die?"

An anorexic is the PRIME example of what our bodies will do in cases of extreme caloric restriction. Use the body's own tissues--muscle and bone--to sustain life. Yea, they keep losing weight..fat...muscle...bone. Finally their cardiac muscle is weakened to the point that it can no longer function properly and they enter cardiac arrest. The end.

A non-anorexic on a VLCD who is NOT morbidly obese, like LesserTess said, will experience this on a smaller scale. The metabolic processes will slow down (reduced cell growth/repair/regeneration, reduced thyroid function, reduced oxygen consumption, etc). In more extreme cases, muscle will be broken down for glucose. Bone will be broken down to maintain a calcium balance in the blood so muscles can keep functioning.

Someone who is morbidly obese has a very large amount of body fat and their weight is more of a risk to their health than the VLCD. THAT is the deciding factor. If you are so heavy that you can barely function, it's more important to lose the weight as quickly as possible and repair the damage once the person is healthier.

This doesn't make 'starvation mode' a myth, merely a misnomer. We should called it 'depressed metabolism mode' so people don't take it so literally.

tmbish82 · January 2009

thank you for this post!!!! i always thought the starvation mode theory was a bunch of crap!!

how do you explain how anorexia is possible if the starvation mode theory rings true?!?!

songbyrdsweet · January 2009

thank you for this post!!!! i always thought the starvation mode theory was a bunch of crap!! how do you explain how anorexia is possible if the starvation mode theory rings true?!?!

I just did.

An anorexic can't help but lose weight because their taking in a few hundred calories a day. But the reason they don't DIE is because the metabolic processes slow so much, and the other reasons I stated above.

DjBliss05 · January 2009

The way I look at it is like this...

If you are keeping your calories too low, your body will work to overcompensate for the loss. Your metabolism will slow and your body will say, "Hold up! I'm hungry!!" Assuming you are still taking in something, I would think your body would be able to do this for a little while.

The thing is, if you are on a very low calorie diet, on the Biggest Loser, or anorexic (for examples) then eventually what your body is trying to do to hold onto the weight will stop working. You will have to lose. It makes sense to me that the body will use up its fat reserves first. For people who have a lot to lose, they have more fat for the body to live off of.

Since most of us can't sustain a very low calorie diet, are not on the Biggest Loser, and do not have anorexia, I think our bodies can hang out in what I think of as "starvation mode" a lot longer. The metabolism slows, we plateau, and the body waits for you to start eatting the right amount again. Could I cut my calories to 1000 a day and lose? Sure, for a short time. Eventually my body will find ways to stop the loss. It is taking care of me like it should. I think staying with our goals, eatting exercise calories, and keeping our metabolism makes the most sense for most people.

This is just how I have made sense of the information I have gotten here and am open to different perspectives, but it seems logical to me. :flowerforyou:

mommachag · January 2009

what I wonder about is people who eat some food but all of it is high in fat.
for example if a person who is 5 ' 5" and eats 500- 800 calories a day but it's all high fat food. will they gain weight.... or loose still?:huh:

songbyrdsweet · January 2009

what I wonder about is people who eat some food but all of it is high in fat.
for example if a person who is 5 ' 5" and eats 500- 800 calories a day but it's all high fat food. will they gain weight.... or loose still?:huh:

They'd still lose.
Fat doesn't make you fat. Overeating makes you fat.

If they are sufficiently low on carbohydrates, they'll enter ketosis, and the fat will be broken down into its two parts, glycerol and fatty acids. Glycerol would be used to produce glucose and fatty acids would be converted to ketones for use in a specific energy system. The body is really dynamic in how it produces energy.

Phoenixflame · January 2009

Neat thread! I'll keep my exercise calories though.

Songbyrdsweet, I've always trusted your depth of knowledge. On the subject of ketosis, is it dangerous for the body to be in that state? I've heard so many conflicting arguments. Mind you, I'm not an Atkins chick, just a curious one. :happy:

michlingle · January 2009

Neat thread!

Songbyrdsweet, I've always trusted your depth of knowledge. On the subject of ketosis, is it dangerous for the body to be in that state? I've heard so many conflicting arguments. Mind you, I'm not an Atkins chick, just a curious one. :happy:

I don't think it's healthy to be in ketosis. When I was in ketosis on atkins like 6 years ago, I was testing my urine with those little strips and I was full on in that mode for about 6 days straight before I had the most disturbing thing happen. I was at a show and started shaking uncontrollably...like Shelby in Steel Magnolias. Then, yes, I drank some juice, and stopped shaking. That diet sucks.

kerrilucko · January 2009

guys heres the thing, it's simple- if you don't want to eat your exercise calorie, don't. If you want to severely restrict your calories even though you only have very little to a moderate amount to lose, go for it. All anyone can do is tell you the healthy way, nobody can force you to go that route. "starvation mode" really isn't crap as someone above said. It actually does happen, but it's not as extreme as some people seem to think (ie-it won't stop you from losing weight) what it will do is change the way your body functions. A morbidly obese person has so much extra energy (fat) stored that they are not at much risk of this happening. Like I said, if you don't want to eat exercise calories, fine. But don't use this article or any other as an excuse not to and please don't recommend to others that they stop eating exercise calories or your posts doing so will be reported by myself and many others who don't appreciate users advocating unhealthy diet methods. That's all I have to say.

LuckyLeprechaun · January 2009

the article was interesting, and I think songbird makes a great point when she says "depressed metabolic mode" would be a better term. Widdy, I don't think you should feel offended, it was an interesting perspective and a kind of wakeup for anybody who was thinking that the term starvation mode would mean NO loss. I kinda knew that it didn't, the anorexia points that have been made show this, but it is good for those pursuing a healthy rate of loss to understand that overdoing it won't make it happen much faster, and puts a strain on the body.

Slow and steady baby!

ohthatbambi · January 2009

If eating your exercise cals works for you then eat them.

If eating some of your exercise cals works for you then eat SOME of them.

If not eating your exercise cals works for you the DON'T eat them.

YOUR body is yours and it is different from everyone else that is on this message board, in the world, in fact. What works for some may not in fact work for all.

Spend a few weeks trying the different things that people post on here and then figure out what works best with your body and RUN with it.

I took everything I read about exercise cals way to seriously. I believed b/c it was so heavily pushed on here that it was the only way to have success. Even when a gained a couple pounds I kept on doing what everyone said and in the end I gained 10 pounds from eating my exercise cals. And before anyone jumps on me about that I wear a HRM with a chest strap so my calorie burn numbers were quite accurate. I spoke with two of my doctors and both agreed that I should NOT be eating all those "earned" calories if I wanted to lose weight. So I went with the opinion of two doctors I trust and found what worked for me.

Eating all of my exercise calories DID NOT work for me, in fact it had the opposite effect. So I picked a number about 300 cals above what MFP suggested I eat with no exercise and went with that. I began losing.

My point is take everything you read with a grain salt b/c your body is yours and only you can figure out what will work for you. Read, learn and equip yourself with lots of information and then start trying to figure out what works best for you. When you do figure it out...run with it!

havingitall · January 2009

OK... I have been eating fruits, veggies, whole grains and lean meats (no refined or processed foods)and have not been hungry.....trust me, I would never let that happen. I have a lot to lose and my calorie requirements are high. When I go to the gym, my workout adds 600 + calories to my requirements. I can't eat that much of the healthy stuff.

How do I get all those calories while sticking to eating the healthy way(meaning no processed foods)

wilted6orchid · January 2009

You know I was just wondering...I eat whatever I want whenever I feel hungry. Not to encouraging, I'm sure. According to my BMI I am on the far end overweight but not quite obese. Anyway, I don't eat my exercise calories, not because I don't want to, but because I'm just not that hungry. So I'm thinking, if I wanted to get in those extra calories...while not being hungry at all. Would I not then be training my body to eat when it's not hungry and therefore reinforcing bad eating habits?!

joann · January 2009

About 7 years ago I lost 90 lbs...it took me 10 months...what did I do..I smoked cigarettes, drank alot of coffee,ate only one small meal aday and walked 4 miles almost everyday...did it work ? yes..Did I learn anything from it ..HELL NO.. I kept it off for about 2 years being so careful of not eatting alot..then I quit smoking, didnt care to drink as much coffee, stopped walking and began to eat normally..yes the way normal people do. Well look at me now.. Well last year:laugh: I went back to 256 pounds and had to start all over again. Now I just stay within my calorie limits and try to eat healthy foods. I have to admit I do not exercise like I should but that day will come too. I have lost 50 lbs and to be honest I do not ever crave a binge. I have a small low fat ice cream bar when in the past it was 2 big bowls.

You have a choice how you want to lose weight both work but in the long run will you spend the rest of your day starving yourself..Not me been there done that..

Interesting Info on 'Starvation Mode'

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