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Is meat healthy?
coco095
Posts: 13 Member
in Debate Club
Hi everyone! The title says it all. I want to hear what you think. Are animals products healthy? I went vegetarian six years ago because of Peta and kept it up because I thought it was healthy, but I only ever heard health arguments from people like dr. McDougall, the China study, ect. I would love to hear some other science based opinions, and this seems to be the place for them. Do you eat meat? Why? Why not? What health benefits (or drawbacks) are there to meat consumption.
Vegans and vegetarians are welcome to chime in, but please, leave ethics out of this. I am solely curious as to health aspects of eating or abstaining from meat. Thanks everyone!
Vegans and vegetarians are welcome to chime in, but please, leave ethics out of this. I am solely curious as to health aspects of eating or abstaining from meat. Thanks everyone!
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Replies
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Yes.6
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Yes. They contain protein and nutrients you need.4
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Like all things: yes & no.
I know a vegetarian that is unhealthy. All she eats is chips, candy, and garbage like that.
Meat can be total crap, like high sodium processed sausage junk. It can also be grilled salmon. The longest lived people on earth eat veggies and fish, and do a lot of walking and gardening (I forget the island. Okinawa maybe...). Since they usually live to ~100, I'll go with it being okay. In moderation. Nearly everything can kill you if you're stupid about it. Even water.10 -
I believe that meat is healthy in moderation. I try to stick to lean meats like fish, chicken, and turkey. Red meat can be high in saturated fat which isn't great in large quantities but for the average person, I wouldn't consider it unhealthy in reasonable amounts. I actually try to eat red meat once a week for the iron since I'm slightly anemic and iron pills make me soooo sick. Meat is also a great source of protein (but yes, I understand that vegetarians and vegans are able to get adequate amounts of protein as well).
I do try to choose mostly organic, free-range meats and fresh, wild-caught fish. This is partially due to ethics but I also find that they taste so much better and are more satisfying!
This is just my personal opinion and what works for me.
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I'm in the Yes camp.0
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yes0
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Yes, it is healthy if the animal was fed it's natural diet and "open range". Meat contains vitamins A (plants have beta-carotene, vitamin A precursor but not the vitamin itself I believe), K2 (no vegan sources that I'm aware of) and D.
Also, getting enough protein is much easier since ALL meat is a source of complete protein. In order to get enough complete protein, a vegan will need to practice "food combining" to match incomplete protein sources with their complement. This doesn't have to be at each meal but roughly within the same day.
Omega 3 (DHA/EPA) can be tough as well, without taking supplements or at least eating fatty fish (sardines). I'm not aware of any vegan sources, there are vegan sources of ALA (DHA/EPA precursor) but the conversion rate is sub 10%. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9637947)1 -
If there are arguments to be made they do not come from the China study, John McDougal or PETA. I believe meat to be healthy but I go easy on red meat, primarily because it makes me feel sluggish and heavy. I try and stick to game and seafood but it's not always feasible.1
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AndyJBacon wrote: »Like all things: yes & no.
I know a vegetarian that is unhealthy. All she eats is chips, candy, and garbage like that.
Meat can be total crap, like high sodium processed sausage junk. It can also be grilled salmon. The longest lived people on earth eat veggies and fish, and do a lot of walking and gardening (I forget the island. Okinawa maybe...). Since they usually live to ~100, I'll go with it being okay. In moderation. Nearly everything can kill you if you're stupid about it. Even water.
This is my take.
Low Carb High Fat has helped me recover my health in an awesome way since Oct 2014 but a funny thing has occurred over the past few months since turning 65. My desire for fats have really declined as well as the red meats. I am now eating less meat than ever in my life.
Many meats are a good source of protein. Living only on red meat would be a bad thing for me yet there is research it shows no health problems from doing so.
If one desires meat than have a go at it and monitor the results perhaps.5 -
We're omnivores, designed to include meat in our diet.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=4bmfs6pZV6wC&printsec=frontcover5 -
Any food in moderation is healthy, especially meats (red), they contain certain enzymes that are very beneficial to our bodies & are not available in most veg & vegan foods.
Go for lean cuts & real meats... not the processed types.
All the best.1 -
Yes, it is healthy if the animal was fed it's natural diet and "open range". Meat contains vitamins A (plants have beta-carotene, vitamin A precursor but not the vitamin itself I believe), K2 (no vegan sources that I'm aware of) and D.
Also, getting enough protein is much easier since ALL meat is a source of complete protein. In order to get enough complete protein, a vegan will need to practice "food combining" to match incomplete protein sources with their complement. This doesn't have to be at each meal but roughly within the same day.
Omega 3 (DHA/EPA) can be tough as well, without taking supplements or at least eating fatty fish (sardines). I'm not aware of any vegan sources, there are vegan sources of ALA (DHA/EPA precursor) but the conversion rate is sub 10%. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9637947)
Vegans do need to eat an assortment of foods to make up complete proteins, however, this isn't really an issue assuming even minimal variety in the diet. If someone tried to get their protein from *only* grains or only *vegetables* or something like that, it could become an concern. But the vast majority of vegans in the West aren't doing that -- we eat grains, vegetables, and legumes (or products that contain them, like soy). Getting enough protein overall is something some vegans have to focus on, but getting *complete* proteins? Even cautious, science-based vegan RDs aren't concerned about this for vegans in the West anymore, assuming you aren't eating just a couple of foods, it shouldn't be an issue.
I have been vegan for ten years and have never had to think about "food combining." When I track my diet on Cronometer (which breaks down how much of each essential amino acid I am getting), I am always over 100% for each amino acid and this is without focusing on food combining at all.4 -
My debate: eat however you want. It's not worth arguing over cause you're in control of your diet. IMO we have evolved eating meat for thousands of years. I prefer keeping meat in my diet for its nutrition, but I'm not going to argue with someone that they have to eat meat, cause at the end of the day, they're going to believe in what they think is right regardless of my opinion. I'd rather enjoy my life and diet, rather than argue about it lol.3
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Foods aren't healthy or unhealthy, diets are. That is, what matters is not the nutritional profile of any single food, but the sum of all the nutritional profiles of all the foods you eat.
That said, there are many nutritional reasons to get excited about meat. Many meats are a great source of iron, and dark or red meat can be a great source of heme iron, which is much more effectively absorbed and utilized by the body compared to non-heme iron. All meat contains vitamin B12, which no plant product has, it's a great source of protein, and overall meat tends to be filling for its calorie content, largely because of being high protein.8 -
Meat as in beef? Cattle?
I consider salmon healthy.0 -
That would be an affirmative.0
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We're omnivores, designed to include meat in our diet.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=4bmfs6pZV6wC&printsec=frontcover
And we're predators to boot.
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Ethical reasons (but don't impose this on a carnivorous pet, buy a bunny) and person taste are the only reasons I really see to not eat meat.1
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Yes. Animal products are healthy. We evolved eating them. The inclusion of animal products (with the accompanying dietary cholesterol- there are no plant based sources of cholesterol) in our diets is what allowed us to have both a bipedal pelvis and large brains. I've always found it ironic that the only reason we are even capable of questioning the ethical implications of our diets is the fact that we started eating significant quantities of meat.3
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Keep it up!
I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary. 4 -
mespreeman wrote: »We're omnivores, designed to include meat in our diet.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=4bmfs6pZV6wC&printsec=frontcover
And we're predators to boot.
Eating meat seems to have worked well for humans for a few hundred thousand years. I'll take my chance and assume that it will continue to work well for the rest of my life.9 -
I eat vegetarian, have done so for a number of years, but see nothing wrong either ethically or healthwise in eating meat.
Do I think that many people eat more meat (and crappier meat) than is good for them? Sure, but as others have pointed out, one can also eat meat in healthy ways.
It's the same with most foods, really, eating too much is not good for you. From both what I've seen of the scientific literature and from anecdotal evidence, I likewise think that a lot of the people who claim to be sensitive to gluten are just plain eating way more wheat than is reasonable. As in, feeling unwell when you eat wheat-based foods as the cornerstone for almost all your meals doesn't (in my eyes) qualify you as gluten intolerant, it qualifies you as having a poorly balanced diet.0 -
richieZavaleta wrote: »Keep it up! I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary.
I think this is the real question. Of course consuming meat can/does have nutritional benefits, I'm not entirely sure why that's being debated. But is it actually necessary in 2016 for us to eat meat? What can meat provide that plants cannot (or cannot substitute)?3 -
richieZavaleta wrote: »Keep it up! I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary.
I think this is the real question. Of course consuming meat can/does have nutritional benefits, I'm not entirely sure why that's being debated. But is it actually necessary in 2016 for us to eat meat? What can meat provide that plants cannot (or cannot substitute)?
Cholesterol.
Yes, yes, I know, I know, healthy young adult men are capable of making all the cholesterol they require, granted they get enough fat in their diets (so low fat vegan is a very bad idea; if you must do vegan, at least be sure to get adequate fats!). The question is, what if you are very young (immature liver and huge need for brain building cholesterol), very old (declining liver function and higher need for cellular repair- one of cholesterol's main jobs), a pregnant or lactating woman (increased cholesterol needs for growing another person's brain and nervous system, not to mention high hormone production - cholesterol is a precursor for every hormone in your body), have hepatitis or some other chronic liver condition? Are you absolutely sure you'd be able to make enough? Cholesterol is so utterly vital to get our existence, that yes, we make our own (otherwise we would quickly die, especially without a dietary source). Where do vegans get their cholesterol, especially when/if their ability to manufacture it gets compromised?
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richieZavaleta wrote: »Keep it up! I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary.
I think this is the real question. Of course consuming meat can/does have nutritional benefits, I'm not entirely sure why that's being debated. But is it actually necessary in 2016 for us to eat meat? What can meat provide that plants cannot (or cannot substitute)?
That's a separate question. The question posed in the OP is whether claims like those made in the China Study are correct, and eating meat is actually unhealthy, or is it not.
I find it easier to eat well when I eat meat (adequate protein, more satisfying diet, less likely to overeat), but I certainly don't think eating meat is necessary, and if I thought it was unethical under the circumstances in which I choose to (I personally do care about sourcing), I would not eat meat (but I don't think that). I also don't think at all that the fact we CAN eat meat (we are omnivores) means we must or are healthier if we do -- being an omnivore means we can adapt to a wide variety of diets.
In that this is a health and fitness debate site, I actually do think the question posed by the OP is the more appropriate and interesting one, and I am not qualified to address it so would be interested if people wanted to. From what I've read, I'm skeptical of the conclusions in the China Study, but I haven't found a lot of good sources where the two sides really address the arguments of the other in a way that I find satisfying (I've read the China Study, various critiques that struck me as pretty compelling, and dismissals that were not). I also know many mainstream nutritionists see correlations between health and limiting meat (or at least red meat). Walter Willett is one.1 -
richieZavaleta wrote: »Keep it up! I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary.
I think this is the real question. Of course consuming meat can/does have nutritional benefits, I'm not entirely sure why that's being debated. But is it actually necessary in 2016 for us to eat meat? What can meat provide that plants cannot (or cannot substitute)?
Plants can't offer bacon... That's a deal breaker.17 -
richieZavaleta wrote: »Keep it up! I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary.
I think this is the real question. Of course consuming meat can/does have nutritional benefits, I'm not entirely sure why that's being debated. But is it actually necessary in 2016 for us to eat meat? What can meat provide that plants cannot (or cannot substitute)?
I agree with this. Meat does possess essential nutrients but as a complete package it has a lot of negative drawbacks. Cutting down on meat is always a good idea. Processed meats should be completely avoided as it is a class 1 carcinogen. Meat substitutes have come a long way and I hope they become even more mainstream.
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amorfati601070 wrote: »richieZavaleta wrote: »Keep it up! I have been vegetarian for 3 years. My alergies went away, my weight is better and my cholesteral is 146. My doctor likes my bloodwork. I think we can also ask the question is eating meat unnessesary.
I think this is the real question. Of course consuming meat can/does have nutritional benefits, I'm not entirely sure why that's being debated. But is it actually necessary in 2016 for us to eat meat? What can meat provide that plants cannot (or cannot substitute)?
I agree with this. Meat does possess essential nutrients but as a complete package it has a lot of negative drawbacks. Cutting down on meat is always a good idea. Processed meats should be completely avoided as it is a class 1 carcinogen. Meat substitutes have come a long way and I hope they become even more mainstream.
That's sad fakeon.4 -
Generally speaking I don't see how anyone could say meat is unhealthy given the number of people that eat and have eaten meat. It's certainly not a necessity for health but as part of a balanced diet it's not unhealthy either.3
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