Skinny... fat?

RECOMP

I personally don't think strong lifts is going to help you here considering your main objective (if i were in your shoes) would be gaining mass. (p.s. yes i think it would help improve your lifts, etc. but i would rather focus on a more hypertrophy centered program)

Firstly, you need to be eating more calories than you are now. I would recommend about 200 OVER maintenance. For someone of your size this puts you at roughly 2,400 calories + more on the days you're doing cardio. Speaking of cardio, are you training for something? Because if not, i'd recommend toning the cardio down to just the minimum required for cardiovascular health. I think it's better to focus on one main objective than tiring yourself out and spinning your wheels on something that isn't going to give you the results you need right now (WHILE maintaining your cardiovascular health of course).

You don't say what you're doing as far as lifting, but you need to be on a hypertophy based progressive training program. You need to be having higher volume, moderate reps 6-12, and the proper amount of calories and protein to optimize your training results.


I think the P.H.A.T. program would be a good choice for someone in your shoes.

So to recap:
More cals- 2,400 minimum
110g protein minimum
Focus on strength training more
Lower cardio to 3x 20 minute HIIT sessions


You should start seeing results pretty fast. Right now i don't recommend you trying to cut down on your body fat level because you will not be satisfied with lower body fat at your current size. By focusing on adding some base mass first when you cut (MODERATELY) in the future you will be able to consume more calories while losing fat and have better returns in your physique.

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I personally don't think strong lifts is going to help you here considering your main objective (if i were in your shoes) would be gaining mass. (p.s. yes i think it would help improve your lifts, etc. but i would rather focus on a more hypertrophy centered program)

Firstly, you need to be eating more calories than you are now. I would recommend about 200 OVER maintenance. For someone of your size this puts you at roughly 2,400 calories + more on the days you're doing cardio. Speaking of cardio, are you training for something? Because if not, i'd recommend toning the cardio down to just the minimum required for cardiovascular health. I think it's better to focus on one main objective than tiring yourself out and spinning your wheels on something that isn't going to give you the results you need right now (WHILE maintaining your cardiovascular health of course).

You don't say what you're doing as far as lifting, but you need to be on a hypertophy based progressive training program. You need to be having higher volume, moderate reps 6-12, and the proper amount of calories and protein to optimize your training results.


I think the P.H.A.T. program would be a good choice for someone in your shoes.

So to recap:
More cals- 2,400 minimum
110g protein minimum
Focus on strength training more
Lower cardio to 3x 20 minute HIIT sessions


You should start seeing results pretty fast. Right now i don't recommend you trying to cut down on your body fat level because you will not be satisfied with lower body fat at your current size. By focusing on adding some base mass first when you cut (MODERATELY) in the future you will be able to consume more calories while losing fat and have better returns in your physique.

this would depend on if the OP was an experienced lifter. Stronglifts is a good starter program more so than a PHAT program

And he indicated he didn't want to gain bulk....but wants to lose fat...get defined but stay the same size.

he indicated that he wanted to "but just replace all these fat with muscle". I suggested the best possible route to do that. He controls how large he wants to get, but suggesting he do anything else right now would be irresponsible with his current body weight and size. And suggesting a body recomp for someone of his height, weight, body fat percentage, and sex is not the most optimal route. I personally think this would take too long to get him where he wants to be and does nothing to address his current BMR and muscle mass situation.

And i disagree about stronglifts. Wrong rep ranges, wrong volume, missing things OP clearly needs, etc. i could go on. As someone who builds programs for people on a daily basis and has transformed the body of many men his size (including my boyfriend who is also 5'8 and started at 138) this is the tried and true way to do that.

By all means OP can do whatever he pleases, but i stand by my recommendation. I also stand by the idea that while stronglifts might be a good general recommendation for some; that OP is not that person.

rainbowbow wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I personally don't think strong lifts is going to help you here considering your main objective (if i were in your shoes) would be gaining mass. (p.s. yes i think it would help improve your lifts, etc. but i would rather focus on a more hypertrophy centered program)

Firstly, you need to be eating more calories than you are now. I would recommend about 200 OVER maintenance. For someone of your size this puts you at roughly 2,400 calories + more on the days you're doing cardio. Speaking of cardio, are you training for something? Because if not, i'd recommend toning the cardio down to just the minimum required for cardiovascular health. I think it's better to focus on one main objective than tiring yourself out and spinning your wheels on something that isn't going to give you the results you need right now (WHILE maintaining your cardiovascular health of course).

You don't say what you're doing as far as lifting, but you need to be on a hypertophy based progressive training program. You need to be having higher volume, moderate reps 6-12, and the proper amount of calories and protein to optimize your training results.


I think the P.H.A.T. program would be a good choice for someone in your shoes.

So to recap:
More cals- 2,400 minimum
110g protein minimum
Focus on strength training more
Lower cardio to 3x 20 minute HIIT sessions


You should start seeing results pretty fast. Right now i don't recommend you trying to cut down on your body fat level because you will not be satisfied with lower body fat at your current size. By focusing on adding some base mass first when you cut (MODERATELY) in the future you will be able to consume more calories while losing fat and have better returns in your physique.

this would depend on if the OP was an experienced lifter. Stronglifts is a good starter program more so than a PHAT program

And he indicated he didn't want to gain bulk....but wants to lose fat...get defined but stay the same size.

he indicated that he wanted to "but just replace all these fat with muscle". I suggested the best possible route to do that. He controls how large he wants to get, but suggesting he do anything else right now would be irresponsible with his current body weight and size. And suggesting a body recomp for someone of his height, weight, body fat percentage, and sex is not the most optimal route. I personally think this would take too long to get him where he wants to be and does nothing to address his current BMR and muscle mass situation.

And i disagree about stronglifts. Wrong rep ranges, wrong volume, missing things OP clearly needs, etc. i could go on. As someone who builds programs for people on a daily basis and has transformed the body of many men his size (including my boyfriend who is also 5'8 and started at 138) this is the tried and true way to do that.

By all means OP can do whatever he pleases, but i stand by my recommendation. I also stand by the idea that while stronglifts might be a good general recommendation for some; that OP is not that person.

At 18% body fat, he would a bit high bulk. Bulking will increase body fat and not get him to this goal of abs and a low body fat. And considering at that level, he is more primed to gain additional fat, I wouldn't advise a bulk either. I would either slow cut or recomp. A slow cut will help him achieve his goal faster though.


Fierce 5 is a good beginner routine. Once he is experienced and plateaued, then he can move to an upper/lower split or a more intermediate program

edit: don't get me wrong, I think a bulk is in the near future, but once he gets down another 5-7% body fat.

rainbowbow wrote: »

psulemon wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I personally don't think strong lifts is going to help you here considering your main objective (if i were in your shoes) would be gaining mass. (p.s. yes i think it would help improve your lifts, etc. but i would rather focus on a more hypertrophy centered program)

Firstly, you need to be eating more calories than you are now. I would recommend about 200 OVER maintenance. For someone of your size this puts you at roughly 2,400 calories + more on the days you're doing cardio. Speaking of cardio, are you training for something? Because if not, i'd recommend toning the cardio down to just the minimum required for cardiovascular health. I think it's better to focus on one main objective than tiring yourself out and spinning your wheels on something that isn't going to give you the results you need right now (WHILE maintaining your cardiovascular health of course).

You don't say what you're doing as far as lifting, but you need to be on a hypertophy based progressive training program. You need to be having higher volume, moderate reps 6-12, and the proper amount of calories and protein to optimize your training results.


I think the P.H.A.T. program would be a good choice for someone in your shoes.

So to recap:
More cals- 2,400 minimum
110g protein minimum
Focus on strength training more
Lower cardio to 3x 20 minute HIIT sessions


You should start seeing results pretty fast. Right now i don't recommend you trying to cut down on your body fat level because you will not be satisfied with lower body fat at your current size. By focusing on adding some base mass first when you cut (MODERATELY) in the future you will be able to consume more calories while losing fat and have better returns in your physique.

this would depend on if the OP was an experienced lifter. Stronglifts is a good starter program more so than a PHAT program

And he indicated he didn't want to gain bulk....but wants to lose fat...get defined but stay the same size.

he indicated that he wanted to "but just replace all these fat with muscle". I suggested the best possible route to do that. He controls how large he wants to get, but suggesting he do anything else right now would be irresponsible with his current body weight and size. And suggesting a body recomp for someone of his height, weight, body fat percentage, and sex is not the most optimal route. I personally think this would take too long to get him where he wants to be and does nothing to address his current BMR and muscle mass situation.

And i disagree about stronglifts. Wrong rep ranges, wrong volume, missing things OP clearly needs, etc. i could go on. As someone who builds programs for people on a daily basis and has transformed the body of many men his size (including my boyfriend who is also 5'8 and started at 138) this is the tried and true way to do that.

By all means OP can do whatever he pleases, but i stand by my recommendation. I also stand by the idea that while stronglifts might be a good general recommendation for some; that OP is not that person.

At 18% body fat, he would a bit high bulk. Bulking will increase body fat and not get him to this goal of abs and a low body fat. And considering at that level, he is more primed to gain additional fat, I wouldn't advise a bulk either. I would either slow cut or recomp. A slow cut will help him achieve his goal faster though.


Fierce 5 is a good beginner routine. Once he is experienced and plateaued, then he can move to an upper/lower split or a more intermediate program

edit: don't get me wrong, I think a bulk is in the near future, but once he gets down another 5-7% body fat.

yeah, i just have to think that sub 20% body fat looks better with more mass regardless. =/

I don't disagree... but from the majority of research I have seen, it's more optimal to gain mass when you are sub 15% body fat. And if you want to stay lean while you bulk, you will need to be 10% or a bit less. So at this time, I don't think he will like his body bulking at 18% body fat. And that is why I won't do it and I am 16%.

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I personally don't think strong lifts is going to help you here considering your main objective (if i were in your shoes) would be gaining mass. (p.s. yes i think it would help improve your lifts, etc. but i would rather focus on a more hypertrophy centered program)

Firstly, you need to be eating more calories than you are now. I would recommend about 200 OVER maintenance. For someone of your size this puts you at roughly 2,400 calories + more on the days you're doing cardio. Speaking of cardio, are you training for something? Because if not, i'd recommend toning the cardio down to just the minimum required for cardiovascular health. I think it's better to focus on one main objective than tiring yourself out and spinning your wheels on something that isn't going to give you the results you need right now (WHILE maintaining your cardiovascular health of course).

You don't say what you're doing as far as lifting, but you need to be on a hypertophy based progressive training program. You need to be having higher volume, moderate reps 6-12, and the proper amount of calories and protein to optimize your training results.


I think the P.H.A.T. program would be a good choice for someone in your shoes.

So to recap:
More cals- 2,400 minimum
110g protein minimum
Focus on strength training more
Lower cardio to 3x 20 minute HIIT sessions


You should start seeing results pretty fast. Right now i don't recommend you trying to cut down on your body fat level because you will not be satisfied with lower body fat at your current size. By focusing on adding some base mass first when you cut (MODERATELY) in the future you will be able to consume more calories while losing fat and have better returns in your physique.

this would depend on if the OP was an experienced lifter. Stronglifts is a good starter program more so than a PHAT program

And he indicated he didn't want to gain bulk....but wants to lose fat...get defined but stay the same size.

he indicated that he wanted to "but just replace all these fat with muscle". I suggested the best possible route to do that. He controls how large he wants to get, but suggesting he do anything else right now would be irresponsible with his current body weight and size. And suggesting a body recomp for someone of his height, weight, body fat percentage, and sex is not the most optimal route. I personally think this would take too long to get him where he wants to be and does nothing to address his current BMR and muscle mass situation.

And i disagree about stronglifts. Wrong rep ranges, wrong volume, missing things OP clearly needs, etc. i could go on. As someone who builds programs for people on a daily basis and has transformed the body of many men his size (including my boyfriend who is also 5'8 and started at 138) this is the tried and true way to do that.

By all means OP can do whatever he pleases, but i stand by my recommendation. I also stand by the idea that while stronglifts might be a good general recommendation for some; that OP is not that person.

No I don't think you did suggest the best possible route considering he is not an intermediate lifter and PHAT will frustrate someone who hasn't lifted that long...as well you can't say for sure what he needs based on a few pics on the internet.

For a recomp Stronglifts is great...and if he is doing Fierce 5 atm sticking with that eating at maintenance will get him where he wants to be....

What he "needs" vs "wants" are two different things...

and not to be nasty but touting "experience" here means nothing...esp if you are recommending what you just did.

As lemon said a bulk could be in his future but at the moment it's not...and I don't build programs for others and I know that.

Okay, considering you don't have the "experience" I don't see how your opinion is more relevant than mine. We can agree to disagree. I think i suggested the best possible route to get him to his end goal, you can think whatever you please.

I still stand by my recommendation.


edit: One more thing, it's best not to confuse your opinion with fact. You can believe what you will, and i can believe what i will, but it's quite frankly irresponsible to claim you "know". Neither you nor I are in OP's shoes. I gave my recommendation based on the training, education, and experience i've received. Don't attack my credentials personally just because you disagree on my recommendation. The entire purpose of the forums is so that the OP can get a variety of recommendations based on their questions (and hopefully ones based on actual facts).

Your opinion is not more important than mine. Just because stronglifts is commonly recommended to people on MFP does not mean that it is more relevant than my recommendation.

Not to be "snarky", but I can recommend what I think is best and give the reasons why. It's up to the OP to decide what works best for them.

rainbowbow wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

I personally don't think strong lifts is going to help you here considering your main objective (if i were in your shoes) would be gaining mass. (p.s. yes i think it would help improve your lifts, etc. but i would rather focus on a more hypertrophy centered program)

Firstly, you need to be eating more calories than you are now. I would recommend about 200 OVER maintenance. For someone of your size this puts you at roughly 2,400 calories + more on the days you're doing cardio. Speaking of cardio, are you training for something? Because if not, i'd recommend toning the cardio down to just the minimum required for cardiovascular health. I think it's better to focus on one main objective than tiring yourself out and spinning your wheels on something that isn't going to give you the results you need right now (WHILE maintaining your cardiovascular health of course).

You don't say what you're doing as far as lifting, but you need to be on a hypertophy based progressive training program. You need to be having higher volume, moderate reps 6-12, and the proper amount of calories and protein to optimize your training results.


I think the P.H.A.T. program would be a good choice for someone in your shoes.

So to recap:
More cals- 2,400 minimum
110g protein minimum
Focus on strength training more
Lower cardio to 3x 20 minute HIIT sessions


You should start seeing results pretty fast. Right now i don't recommend you trying to cut down on your body fat level because you will not be satisfied with lower body fat at your current size. By focusing on adding some base mass first when you cut (MODERATELY) in the future you will be able to consume more calories while losing fat and have better returns in your physique.

this would depend on if the OP was an experienced lifter. Stronglifts is a good starter program more so than a PHAT program

And he indicated he didn't want to gain bulk....but wants to lose fat...get defined but stay the same size.

he indicated that he wanted to "but just replace all these fat with muscle". I suggested the best possible route to do that. He controls how large he wants to get, but suggesting he do anything else right now would be irresponsible with his current body weight and size. And suggesting a body recomp for someone of his height, weight, body fat percentage, and sex is not the most optimal route. I personally think this would take too long to get him where he wants to be and does nothing to address his current BMR and muscle mass situation.

And i disagree about stronglifts. Wrong rep ranges, wrong volume, missing things OP clearly needs, etc. i could go on. As someone who builds programs for people on a daily basis and has transformed the body of many men his size (including my boyfriend who is also 5'8 and started at 138) this is the tried and true way to do that.

By all means OP can do whatever he pleases, but i stand by my recommendation. I also stand by the idea that while stronglifts might be a good general recommendation for some; that OP is not that person.

No I don't think you did suggest the best possible route considering he is not an intermediate lifter and PHAT will frustrate someone who hasn't lifted that long...as well you can't say for sure what he needs based on a few pics on the internet.

For a recomp Stronglifts is great...and if he is doing Fierce 5 atm sticking with that eating at maintenance will get him where he wants to be....

What he "needs" vs "wants" are two different things...

and not to be nasty but touting "experience" here means nothing...esp if you are recommending what you just did.

As lemon said a bulk could be in his future but at the moment it's not...and I don't build programs for others and I know that.

Okay, considering you don't have the "experience" I don't see how your opinion is more relevant than mine. We can agree to disagree. I think i suggested the best possible route to get him to his end goal, you can think whatever you please.

I still stand by my recommendation.


edit: One more thing, it's best not to confuse your opinion with fact. You can believe what you will, and i can believe what i will, but it's quite frankly irresponsible to claim you "know". Neither you nor I are in OP's shoes. I gave my recommendation based on the training, education, and experience i've received. Don't attack my credentials personally just because you disagree on my recommendation. The entire purpose of the forums is so that the OP can get a variety of recommendations based on their questions (and hopefully ones based on actual facts).

Your opinion is not more important than mine. Just because stronglifts is commonly recommended to people on MFP does not mean that it is more relevant than my recommendation.

Not to be "snarky", but I can recommend what I think is best and give the reasons why. It's up to the OP to decide what works best for them.

your opinion is not fact either.

YOu claim experience and training etc but eh I can claim whatever I want on the internet too.

Stronglifts is recommended as a starter program PHAT and PHUL are not those are for more experienced lifters...

and go ahead and recommend whatever you want but since this is MFP forums I can disagree with you can call your "experience" into question all I want esp since you threw it out there and based on recommendations I have to wonder if it's true.

And yes it is up to the OP and he asked about recomp and said "I want to stay slim like this with abs".

You recommended a bulk (at his BF%) and an intermediate lifting program to a person who isn't an intermediate lifter...

and calorie and macro numbers out without really knowing anything about him...BMR 1469 and TDEE at 2k...not likely I would have asked where and how he calculated his TDEE mainly because me at the same size as him it's currently sitting at about 2300-2400 and I am an older female.

All those things raise red flags to your experience and education etc. *not to be snarky*