A very very simple thought on "exercise calories"

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Dom_m
Dom_m Posts: 337 Member
We all know this comes up all the time with very different views. The crux of the issue seems to me to be this:

If you want consistent(ish) weight loss, then you need consistent(ish) calorie deficits. BMR is basically a constant, and lifestyle is basically a constant. The target calorie deficit is a constant. Exercise is a variable. If it wasn't it'd be part of lifestyle. That's the whole point of measuring it separately, because its variable.

The only way to keep a constant calorie deficit if you have variable calorie usage is to have a proportional calorie intake, That is, by eating in proportion to your exercise, or "eating your exercise calories".

If you don't care about constant calorie deficits (and therefore you don't care about constant weight loss) then don't worry about it. You can have constant eating plans and variable exercise, and just accept that you'll have variable calorie deficits. Sometimes you'll loose weight and sometimes not. The only thing you have to be careful about here, is the risk of very large deficits and the risk of losing motivation when you don't see results.

There's nothing else to it. If you exercise, you have a choice between constant weight loss or constant eating.




A couple of reasons people seem to avoid eating exercise calories:

Some people like to "eat part of their exercise calories". This is usually because they're afraid that they're overestimating their calorie burn during exercise. If you think that's what you're doing, then fine. But if you know you're measuring everything correctly, then you're left with the choice I mentioned above. And why not try to measure exercise more accurately, rather than applying an arbitrary fraction to an imprecise estimate? If you do this partial approach because you want to hege your decision, getting a bit of a deficit bonus as a 'reward' for a good workout, but not going to extremes, then this is fine too, as long as you're aware that taking it too far will slow down your weight loss (or at least, make it variable).

Other people seem to feel that they need more margin of error overall. Maybe their BMR estimate is wrong, or they occasionally underreport food or overreport exercise. That's fine too, but if you find that you aren't getting results with a particular target, why not give yourself the extra margin of error by changing the target, which is constant and under your control, rather than applying some arbitrary fraction to your exercise, which is variable?

Finally, people often feel that if they eat their exercise calories, what was the point of exercising? I have a lot of sympathy for this approach. You work out, and you're rewarded with a bigger deficit and faster weight loss, right? But actually, the fastest weight loss seems to occur when you have a constant (and appropriate) deficit. Best to change your motivation for exercise (there are many good reasons beyond having an uber-calorie deficit for the day). If you think of exercise as creating a 'bonus' deficit, rather than part of your strategy of achieving your 'normal and consistent' deficit, then I don't think you're going to do as well as you could. But each to their own. Just remember that super large deficits are just as bad, if not worse than super large surpluses.


Well, nothing technical here and not trying to be preachy... just a slightly different way of thinking about this issue that might settle a few questions for some people. Hope it helps at least someone.
:)

Replies

  • LauraMarie37
    LauraMarie37 Posts: 283 Member
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    =)
  • jenilla1
    jenilla1 Posts: 11,118 Member
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    That's about right.
  • shuttlebug1
    shuttlebug1 Posts: 41 Member
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    I was just talking with my husband about this very subject, and basically said the same thing about being accurate with your counting - both on food and exercise. Why bother using MFP if you're not going to do it right?
  • mrphil86
    mrphil86 Posts: 2,382 Member
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    I agree with what you say but a lot of people will disagree with you. Everybody seems to get different results every time. That's because there are more factors than just a calorie deficit. Insulin control being one of the more important ones.
  • Dom_m
    Dom_m Posts: 337 Member
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    Why bother using MFP if you're not going to do it right?

    MFP is a great tool, and people can use it for a lot of different things, but basically you're right: if your goal is weight loss, and you don't fall into a specific minority with some unusual condition, then MFP is set up in a particular way that will maximise results.
    Everybody seems to get different results every time. That's because there are more factors than just a calorie deficit. Insulin control being one of the more important ones.
    I don't know too much about insulin resistance. If you're talking about Gary Taub's book, I don't have a lot of respect for it, but that's just based on the misinformation on his website, I haven't actually read the book.
    It seems to me though, that for the majority of people who don't have specific medical conditions, the basic equation:
    BMI + lifestyle + exercise >=< food
    determines their fat storage (>=< is greater than, equal to, or less than). Certainly for me, when I recorded every calorie in and out, plus measured myself every morning (weight, skin fold and girth) and plotted it on excel over 6-7 months, body fat was very very closely tied to calorie deficits.
  • SheilaSisco
    SheilaSisco Posts: 722 Member
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    I don't look at exercise as a calorie deficit... I look at it as a means to make my body stronger and more efficient. I workout to build more muscle that will, in turn, burn more calories. I work out so that I can play with my children for more than two minutes before I have to stop and catch my breath. I exercise to make myself FEEL better (healthier). I don't to it to lose weight. I watch what I eat to lose weight...
  • mrphil86
    mrphil86 Posts: 2,382 Member
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    Why bother using MFP if you're not going to do it right?

    MFP is a great tool, and people can use it for a lot of different things, but basically you're right: if your goal is weight loss, and you don't fall into a specific minority with some unusual condition, then MFP is set up in a particular way that will maximise results.
    Everybody seems to get different results every time. That's because there are more factors than just a calorie deficit. Insulin control being one of the more important ones.
    I don't know too much about insulin resistance. If you're talking about Gary Taub's book, I don't have a lot of respect for it, but that's just based on the misinformation on his website, I haven't actually read the book.
    It seems to me though, that for the majority of people who don't have specific medical conditions, the basic equation:
    BMI + lifestyle + exercise >=< food
    determines their fat storage (>=< is greater than, equal to, or less than). Certainly for me, when I recorded every calorie in and out, plus measured myself every morning (weight, skin fold and girth) and plotted it on excel over 6-7 months, body fat was very very closely tied to calorie deficits.

    Oh no, I read that book too and I agree with you also. Calorie deficits do play a huge role in weight loss, I'm just saying there are more things than just that like you pointed out. There are studies on insulin effecting weight loss to where it can have an effect on weight loss.
  • Dom_m
    Dom_m Posts: 337 Member
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    Oh no, I read that book too and I agree with you also. Calorie deficits do play a huge role in weight loss, I'm just saying there are more things than just that like you pointed out. There are studies on insulin effecting weight loss to where it can have an effect on weight loss.

    Yes, I'm sure you're right. The human body has a lot of chemistry and bizzaro stuff going on that I can't begin to understand. But if calorie deficits account for, say, 90% of the story in most people, then focusing on other things but getting the calorie deficit wrong is probably a waste of time and effort and grief (for most people). For a few people there might be some other issue that simply MUST be dealt with but most people will get pretty good results just by keeping their daily calorie deficit constant(ish) and appropriate.

    But there are still a lot of people on MFP who are confused about the exercise calorie thing, and my post was just to provide a slightly different perspective on why people say to "eat your exercise calories". Seems if people are confused, an alternative explanation may help.
    I don't look at exercise as a calorie deficit... I look at it as a means to make my body stronger and more efficient. I workout to build more muscle that will, in turn, burn more calories. I work out so that I can play with my children for more than two minutes before I have to stop and catch my breath. I exercise to make myself FEEL better (healthier). I don't to it to lose weight. I watch what I eat to lose weight...
    With that kind of attitude and motivation, you'll probably find that you get great results! (and actually, I can see that you already have, well done!)
  • katieeweiss
    katieeweiss Posts: 185 Member
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    Thank you for posting this! I just joined yesterday and while I didn't question the advice to "eat the exercise calories" I was definitely interested in the WHY of it. So thanks!
  • seasonalvoodoo
    seasonalvoodoo Posts: 380 Member
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    I don't look at exercise as a calorie deficit... I look at it as a means to make my body stronger and more efficient. I workout to build more muscle that will, in turn, burn more calories. I work out so that I can play with my children for more than two minutes before I have to stop and catch my breath. I exercise to make myself FEEL better (healthier). I don't to it to lose weight. I watch what I eat to lose weight...

    Yes, me too! I look at exercise as a way to become stronger and healthier!

    To the OP, great post!
  • brandiuntz
    brandiuntz Posts: 2,717 Member
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    Excellent post.
  • LisaKyle11
    LisaKyle11 Posts: 662 Member
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    bump
  • CandyJ9
    CandyJ9 Posts: 38
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    Great post. I'm an LVN, but we didn't cover nutrition too much. (Though I am taking a nutrition course next semester!) Glad to know that I actually should be consuming my exercise calories. I just went downstairs and had a nice glass of milk because of this post. And I loved every bit of it.
  • mowu
    mowu Posts: 245 Member
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    Just a thing to consider - when you log your exercise calories, you often just put in the number from your HRM/machine at the gym/MFP.

    This number is in the majority of cases the total amount of calories spent during the workout timeframe - including calories already budgeted as part of your everyday, calories you would have burned anyways.

    So not eating all your calories back could be (read: is for me) a way to compensate for the calories i would have spent anyway. I know I could make it all more precise by adjusting the reported number with the corresponding fraction of my BMR (or perhaps more precisely my budgeted calories for the day) - but then we have another issue.

    While the formulas used to calculate my BMR or daily calorie budget are scientifically sound, they are also based on averages on a normal distributed population - and I don't know exactly where on the normal distribution curve I am. So MFP does not give me the ultimate true numbers, only a very qualified guess.....but when I am given a maintenance level of ~2200 calories a day it is highly unlikely that this number is exact for me, but it probably comes within +/- 100calories of the true number.

    I guess my point is: no matter how you do it there will be uncertainties in the numbers reported by and to MFP, and in the end you should be critical of how you use the tools and compare them with the results you see (be that weight, measurements or plain old "I feel better" factor) - if it works for you then you're doing great - if it doesn't you should probably change someting either in your settings, your reprotings to MFP or even in your result scale.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
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    Bumpy McBump!
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
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    There are always variables beyond calorie count.

    I set my thing at MFP to be a 2lb a week deficit. That's about 1500 calories for me. I TRY to eat 1800 a day regardless of exercise...I've lost weight, 22lbs in 7 weeks to be exact...I don't really count calories, I just record it.

    In my opinion people are too stuck on calories when there is much more to it.

    I'm of the opinion you need to burn more than you take in because you are constantly burning what you take in. Having a negative calorie intake so to speak. When you wake up, eat, fill the gas tank, and keep filling it every few hours. You'll burn it as you go and feul as you go. The trick is knowing what to eat and when.

    Rarely do I take into consideration what MFP says about my calories
  • carmenstop1
    carmenstop1 Posts: 210 Member
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    Bump!
  • Dom_m
    Dom_m Posts: 337 Member
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    Just a thing to consider - when you log your exercise calories, you often just put in the number from your HRM/machine at the gym/MFP.

    This number is in the majority of cases the total amount of calories spent during the workout timeframe - including calories already budgeted as part of your everyday, calories you would have burned anyways.
    ...
    While the formulas used to calculate my BMR or daily calorie budget are scientifically sound, they are also based on averages on a normal distributed population - and I don't know exactly where on the normal distribution curve I am.

    You're absolutely right with both points. On average, if I'm not exercising I need about 90 calories per hour to sustain my lifestlye. If I exercise for an hour and the HRM tells me I use 600 calories, I really should only increase my food intake by 510 (as in, 600 minus what I was already counting for that hour: 90). That used to be important for me when I logged about 15 hours / week exercise, but now I'm doing Insanity and its only 4 hours / week, so it doesn't make too much difference to me. But you're still right on this point.

    The other point, about everyone being different, is also correct. The best way of dealing with that is to assume that your the same as everyone else to start with, and then adjust your targets based on your own experience to account for your personal differences.