When does it go from re-comp to cut/bulk?

madammags · July 2016

So, I'm at maintenance now. However, I'm considering going into a sort of cut/bulk cycle, but I'm not sure I can really call it that.

Basically, my plan is to slightly up calories and lower cardio in winter when the weather is crap and calorie-dense foods plentiful and then lower calories slightly and do more cardio in summer when riding my bike is more fun and veggies are more varied and plentiful.
I'm aiming to not have my weight swing by more than 5kgs (11 lbs) or so. I don't know whether it'll be more helpful to me to think about it as a long and small range cut/bulk cycle, or an extended maintenance range. What do you guys think?

I know this might be an odd question, and it doesn't really matter (for most people at least*), I'm just trying to settle things in my mind.

*Note: I have a history of depression and though I'm not currently in a depressive episode, I'm looking to go back to therapy soon to try to clear up some self-esteem, body image, and eating issues from my childhood. I've done CBT before and it's been helpful, so that's why I'm trying to sort out my thinking before going into this process.

EDIT: I don't know if this is relevant as well, but I'm pretty lean in most parts of my body, have decent muscle definition in my arms and legs, but have belly pudge. I've mostly made peace with it (it's my body type, even my mum, who is super skinny, has it), but I'd like to get a little bit leaner overall, and see if I can reduce the pudge a bit.

middlehaitch · July 2016

You haven't mentioned lifting when you are in a bulk cycle in the winter. Are you planning to lift? Just wondering.

Check the gaining forum for the excellent what lifting programme for me post.

Also, if you are eating less calories and doing cardio in the summer and then planning no exercise and upping your calories in the winter that 11 lbs is going to be added pretty quickly.

I think sitting down and really figuring out your CICO for a summer and winter split is needed.

How much do you burn a day doing cardio in the summer?
What is the typical summer cal intake per day as opposed to the winter?

For me it could easily be a .5-1 lbs weight gain a week.

Also if you are not exercising the greater amount of the gain will be fat and with no activity you will be inclined to lose muscle you already have.
A couple of years of that and you will end up with a greater fat percentage than you started with.

You could run it as a cut/bulk if you included a progressive compound lifting programme, or a progressive bodyweight programme during the winter along with about a 250 cal increase for a clean 3-4 month bulk. In the summer run the cut, 250-500 cal deficit, lifting with a less emphasis on progression and including cardio.
If you are using MFP calculations eat back 50% cals from exercise year round, adjusting so you are meeting your weekly goal.
If you are using an off site TDEE calculator use those numbers and adjust to meet your goal.
Remember with both methods to adjust your calorie goal every 5lbs.

Cheers, h.

No expert just how I would approach it in your circumstances.
Lifting will help a little with the belly juggle too.

RoxieDawn · July 2016

OP, you are way over thinking this. If you want to gain 11 pounds of muscle/fat in the winter, do that. If you want to cut that 11 pounds muscle/fat in the summer do that too.

If you are going to get therapy for depression that will entail you being put on medication, take that into consideration and tell your doctor about your plans for loosing and gaining weight.

And how lean you are or are not, does not matter at all, You set the goals, and you work the goals. Just remember you cannot spot reduce to loose the "pudge", when you cut, you cut fat all over..

You make no mention of the type of lifting program you will be doing..

sijomial · July 2016

Both recomp and bulk/cut cycles are ways to increase muscle mass and reduce fat.
But I'm not actually seeing your plan to increase muscle? Just eating more then eating less won't help on its own.

That really just leaves letting your weight fluctuate on a seasonal basis which is neither recomp or bulk/cut. Doesn't make it wrong of course! If it makes you happier then that's a good reason.
Winter is a bit of a traditional time to bulk as you tend to be wearing less clothes.

As a fellow cyclist I do something similar. I do a far higher volume of cycling in the warm months (c. 100 miles/week) but am restricted to indoor training when it's too cold.
I tend to maintain at a slightly lower weight than I prefer in summer for performance reasons. In winter I allow my weight to drift up, partly to enjoy the festivities. A small calorie surplus really does nothing at my age to promote faster muscle growth!

But 11lbs would be too much gain for me. 4 or 5lbs maximum otherwise when I'm ramping up my training in the Spring I would also be having to be in a calorie deficit to lose the fluffiness as well which isn't ideal.

madammags · July 2016

Thanks for the replies guys, I knew there was probably something I'd left out.

middlehaitch wrote: »

You haven't mentioned lifting when you are in a bulk cycle in the winter. Are you planning to lift? Just wondering.

Sorry, I forgot to mention lifting: I do lifting all year around.
During the school year I do a progressive full-body program 2-3 times/week. My current program has a slight skew towards upper body exercises as these muscles are comparatively weak (I'm female, so not terribly surprising).
Sometimes I do a group weights class rather than a 3rd lifting session on my own (I'm lucky that my gym has an instructor who believes in lifting heavy). Over the holidays, I tend to take more classes since I find them fun.

I also run all year around (one or two 5km runs with fartlek og hill-sprints and one 8-10km run per week at the moment, working on increasing distance), and do yoga classes once or twice a week.
Sometimes I also throw in a Zumba class or the like, depending.
The difference in training would mainly be that I'll bike a lot less as I use my bike a lot for transport in summer, but much less so in winter (an estimated difference of about 120-150 km/week).

middlehaitch wrote: »

You could run it as a cut/bulk if you included a progressive compound lifting programme, or a progressive bodyweight programme during the winter along with about a 250 cal increase for a clean 3-4 month bulk. In the summer run the cut, 250-500 cal deficit, lifting with a less emphasis on progression and including cardio.

That was more or less my plan. Have about 4-5 months of +200 cals/day, 4-5 months of -200 cals/day, and a month between each to slowly transition. Lifting all year, but hoping for more progression in winter.

RoxieDawn wrote: »

If you are going to get therapy for depression that will entail you being put on medication, take that into consideration and tell your doctor about your plans for loosing and gaining weight.

Uhm, no. Talking to a psychologist does not automatically mean getting medication. As I said, I'm not currently in a depressive episode, so my doctor is HIGHLY unlikely to suggest medication. The reason I would like to go back to therapy is exactly to try to clear up some of my underlying issues while I'm generally doing quite well, the hope being to diminish future depressive episodes.

sijomial wrote: »

As a fellow cyclist I do something similar. I do a far higher volume of cycling in the warm months (c. 100 miles/week) but am restricted to indoor training when it's too cold.

But 11lbs would be too much gain for me. 4 or 5lbs maximum otherwise when I'm ramping up my training in the Spring I would also be having to be in a calorie deficit to lose the fluffiness as well which isn't ideal.

Hmm... good point, though I'm not worried about biking performance as I don't really bike as a sport. I just like it for transport (growing up around Copenhagen, it was really my default transport) and I have 22km each way to work, so it adds up even if I'm not expecting to ride every day even in summer. The only specific event I need to train for is a 13 km fun run in October, otherwise I just train for my own gratification.

sijomial · July 2016

Ah gotcha!
If you want to label it then yes a lean (or "clean", or just slow.....) bulk and cut cycle.

Personally I would still find 11lbs too much - excess fat goes straight to my stomach these days and I would need two sets of trouser sizes. And I really hate shopping.

madammags · July 2016

sijomial wrote: »

Personally I would still find 11lbs too much - excess fat goes straight to my stomach these days and I would need two sets of trouser sizes. And I really hate shopping.

You know, I hadn't actually considered that at all, damn! Hmm... will have to consider further.

middlehaitch · July 2016

Glad to hear your plan does include lifting @madammags, it all makes sense now.

.

Depending on your weight- that 5kg may be a bit excessive- it would be for me as I am tiny and hold most of my fat around my waist so would spend the winter looking 6m pregnant.

@sijomial has a good point on the 2 different sizes of clothes too. A separate winter and summer wardrobe- not as bad as it sounds except for year round jeans.

Run it as you plan and be willing to adjust.

Cheers, h.

madammags · July 2016

middlehaitch wrote: »

Depending on your weight- that 5kg may be a bit excessive- it would be for me as I am tiny and hold most of my fat around my waist so would spend the winter looking 6m pregnant.

@sijomial has a good point on the 2 different sizes of clothes too. A separate winter and summer wardrobe- not as bad as it sounds except for year round jeans.

Yeah, I'm currently maintaining at 68-70 kgs (174 cm tall) and am actually right in that annoying zone of being on the cusp of clothes size. A large is often too big, but a medium often just too small, mainly around my ribcage and across the back (stupidly usually accompanied by the back waist being too long, so baggy in one direction, tight in the other). I have a giant ribcage it seems, excellent for singing, not so good for getting into dresses

I was thinking I'd probably expand my weight range down, so I'd cycle around in the high 60's.

richardgavel · July 2016

For me, I'm planning almost the opposite. I do so mich cardio in summer that I need more calories then. Once race season ends in fall, I will move to bulk or recomp and lower my calories since I won't have the cardio to sustain that level of eating.

When does it go from re-comp to cut/bulk?

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