Losing Fat and Building Muscle @ the same Time

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lazywriter
lazywriter Posts: 90
in Fitness and Exercise
Some say I can do it.

Most say I can't.

Those who do, are generally selling something, or go on to promote someone who claims it can be done. THAT person, however, is selling something. Be it an idea, DVD, diet program, exercise program, etc etc.

Can anyone point to me REAL research? When I Google it, I come up with sites that are tailored toward selling the idea of the possibility. They are sites selling information, or programs, or diets, or nutrients/vitamins what have you.

I have yet to find any legitimate looking website that has the sole purpose of informing the public about weight loss that says you can in fact build muscle mass while eating at a caloric deficit in order to lose weight.

BTW, and I'm just saying, the people who tell me it's possible are all male, and all VERY built, and all VERY addicted to whatever their gym buddies say. What's up with that?

Replies

  • Hearts_2015
    Hearts_2015 Posts: 12,031 Member
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    A person that knows better would not tell you it's possible. It's simply not possible, to gain muscle you need to be eating enough to do so.

    I'm sorry I don't have links it's something I just know to be true from many sources.

    I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "people trying to sell you something" are the ones that have told you it can be done.

    I didn't get a chance to look at your goals/ticker but if you're looking to continue losing weight, adding in some strength training will help so much. That way you get in the habit and don't save it all for the end when you've dropped any extra weight you are looking to lose.

    You c;an tone up by strength training while also doing cardio and muscles helps keep the fat burning through out the day.

    Perhaps someone in the know will be able to pop in and share sources or explain more detail for you.

    Good luck to you!:drinker:
  • Shizzman
    Shizzman Posts: 527 Member
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    Losing Fat and Building Muscle isn't that much of an issue and I can say pretty much been doing that. Usually haven't been seeing weight loss....which might have been what you were thinking. Anyways, often people say you should focus, but I've been trying to work towards endurance running and gaining muscle...It all depends on what you are aiming for as goals
  • BeastModeAlways
    BeastModeAlways Posts: 12 Member
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    Gaining muscle mass while losing fat is the holy grail of body building and fitness. Unless you lose fat weight very slowly (half pound a week or so)

    However, you can get stronger while losing weight, especially as a new exerciser, since most who take up strength training adapt via the nervous system for the first 8 to 12 weeks. Basically, your body is learning how to recruit more muscle fiber at one time, and this is a nervous system adaption.

    You can also increase muscle endurance while losing weight. Lots of reps with lower weight (50 to 60% of your 1 rep max) for a good 5 sets, for example. That is because this is a vascular adaptation.

    But muscle mass itself requires the body to be anabolic, and when you are shedding fat, you are catabolic, which is the polar opposite.
  • lazywriter
    lazywriter Posts: 90
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    I didn't get a chance to look at your goals/ticker but if you're looking to continue losing weight, adding in some strength training will help so much. That way you get in the habit and don't save it all for the end when you've dropped any extra weight you are looking to lose.

    You c;an tone up by strength training while also doing cardio and muscles helps keep the fat burning through out the day.


    I appreciate your reply regardless of whether or not you have links. :)

    My ticker says, correctly, that I have lost 20lbs in a little over 4 months.

    I actually DO do strength training! :) I like it. I want to keep my muscles toned, and working. I don't always do weights, though. I do a lot of Pilates as well. This way I am still using my muscles and staying toned, but not bothering with the motony of weights when I can't really build mass anyway, you know?

    I have toned up a LOT in these last 4 months and I am definitely stronger.

    I have not, however, put ON muscle MASS.

    I have lost inches on my waist, legs, and hips! :happy:

    And bust. :sad:
  • lazywriter
    lazywriter Posts: 90
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    Gaining muscle mass while losing fat is the holy grail of body building and fitness. Unless you lose fat weight very slowly (half pound a week or so)

    However, you can get stronger while losing weight, especially as a new exerciser, since most who take up strength training adapt via the nervous system for the first 8 to 12 weeks. Basically, your body is learning how to recruit more muscle fiber at one time, and this is a nervous system adaption.

    You can also increase muscle endurance while losing weight. Lots of reps with lower weight (50 to 60% of your 1 rep max) for a good 5 sets, for example. That is because this is a vascular adaptation.

    But muscle mass itself requires the body to be anabolic, and when you are shedding fat, you are catabolic, which is the polar opposite.

    Thanks for your reply. I have most definitely become stronger due to the weight training I do now (about 3x a week, same days I do cardio) and definitely have more muscle endurance. I just have not put on mass.
  • mark996
    mark996 Posts: 184 Member
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    Without medicinal supplimentation, it's not likely going to happen. Like others have said, you can gain strength, but actually building solid muscle mass while on a calorie deficit, it won't be prolonged. In the past I've been able to diet down to a lower weight class while maintaining my strength and raw totals, but was never able to actually gain any solid strength. Many new to the world people will try to drop a ton of weight while gaining solid mass naturally, and it's just a wheel of frustration that gets spun round and round. It's best to let the body and mind focus on one thing, go in to it 110%, either way. Keeping muscle mass while dieting is completely possible, and is a great thing because during this phase you'll see so many aesthetically pleasing changes with the body, as opposed to someone doing all cardio just to please the scales number and losing all muscle mass, hence the term skinny fat can liberally be applied to some of these people.
  • BR1986FB
    BR1986FB Posts: 1,515 Member
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    Best advice I could give is train VERY heavy (compound movements..squats, deads, bent rows, overhead press, bench, chinups/pullups) and for your cardio, WALK (don't jog...this wastes muscle) 45-60 minutes in a fasted state. Taking a good BCAA prior to these walks wouldn't hurt in sparing your body it's hard earned muscle. It may not put on a ton of muscle but it should keep you from losing what you've got.

    As a lady, you will only put on so much muscle. Lack of testosterone will likely hold you back from putting on major mass.
  • kendf60
    kendf60 Posts: 234 Member
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    Try googling catabolic and anabolic states. This may help on getting more scientific information on the subject.
  • End6ame
    End6ame Posts: 903
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    If you are obese (above 30% body fat) you can build muscle while on a caloric deficit. This process will slow and eventually cease as you keep losing body fat though, at which point you will require a calorie surplus to keep building muscle mass. 

    I was able to do this for 6 months and gained 6lbs of muscle while on a caloric deficit and dropping about 8% body fat. Now that I am around 25% body fat I am still able to gain strength (recruit more muscle fibers) but gaining actual muscle mass is difficult and nowhere near 1lb per month like before. 

    To do this you will need to build up to lifting heavy (80% to 90% or your 1 rep max) on compound muscle/joint exercises since compound lifts actively use more muscles and muscle fiber recruitment. Be forewarned that it is hard work. 

    Take a look at either Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5. These programs can get you there, but as I said, it will be hard. 
  • katem8600
    katem8600 Posts: 8 Member
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    good idea to google catabolic and anabolic states.. I found this on anabolicminds.com and it makes the most sense to me

    "Anabolism is the building of more complex molecules from energy and materials (can be lean tissue or fatty tissue). Catabolism is just the reverse.

    When you consume more calories than you are burning then you will be overall anabolic (fat and/or muscle). Catabolism is again the reverse.

    When a lifter diets, they go overall catabolic but the goal is to maximize fatty tissue catabolism while minimizing lean tissue catabolism. It is a balancing act.

    Generally, only beginners can lose overall weight and build muscle at the same time. So yes in that case anabolism of muscle can promote more fatty tissue breakdown. Overall, however, they would be catabolic because more energy is going out than coming in (weighing less on the scale)."

    Ireally like this topic :D
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,241 Member
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    I know that for the first 6-8 months of my weight loss I gained muscle at the same time. To do so you need to provide the nutrients needed to build the muscles such as sufficient protein. What that means is your nutritional needs will have to be very carefully accounted for beyond that initial muscle growth. I know it is possible because of my own experience albeit I don't gain muscle any long and have been losing some as well because I don't do the very careful nutrition or the very hard heavy weight lifting (since I hurt my knee I can't do that right now until it is healed), but there are 2 qualifications. First, muscle gain will be very slow. Don't expect to pack on slabs of muscle. Second, fat loss will be slow as well because you certainly cannot run a large deficit. You basically would be looking to provide a little of your energy needs from your fat and the lions share from protein.

    The foundational reason I think most people who say it is impossible is because those who say you need a caloric surplus also realize that a lot of the weight they put on in the muscle building phase is fat which they then need to get rid of. That means they were eating more calories than were actually needed to put on muscle. My support is people like http://www.youtube.com/user/scooby1961 at youtube and Martin Berkus at leangains.com BTW neither are trying to sell anything.
  • crisanderson27
    crisanderson27 Posts: 5,343 Member
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    If you are obese (above 30% body fat) you can build muscle while on a caloric deficit. This process will slow and eventually cease as you keep losing body fat though, at which point you will require a calorie surplus to keep building muscle mass. 

    I was able to do this for 6 months and gained 6lbs of muscle while on a caloric deficit and dropping about 8% body fat. Now that I am around 25% body fat I am still able to gain strength (recruit more muscle fibers) but gaining actual muscle mass is difficult and nowhere near 1lb per month like before. 

    To do this you will need to build up to lifting heavy (80% to 90% or your 1 rep max) on compound muscle/joint exercises since compound lifts actively use more muscles and muscle fiber recruitment. Be forewarned that it is hard work. 

    Take a look at either Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5. These programs can get you there, but as I said, it will be hard. 

    This!

    And while you're at it...take a look at what Scooby says =D. He's 100% free btw.

    http://scooby1961.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-gain-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-same.html
  • up2me2lose20
    up2me2lose20 Posts: 360 Member
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    From my reading and researching, it really is not possible to put on muscle mass while eating at a calorie deficit. Your muscles need the nutrients from your caloric intake to repair after your workouts in order to get bigger and stronger.
  • crisanderson27
    crisanderson27 Posts: 5,343 Member
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    From my reading and researching, it really is not possible to put on muscle mass while eating at a calorie deficit. Your muscles need the nutrients from your caloric intake to repair after your workouts in order to get bigger and stronger.

    Dunno, if you check my link, this guy:

    IHZGQZ

    Says it is...and since he's not selling anything...and is one of the nicest, most intelligent guys I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with...not to mention he's 3x my size lol...I'd tend to believe him =D.
  • mark996
    mark996 Posts: 184 Member
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    Cris...looks like gyno to me dude.
  • Hearts_2015
    Hearts_2015 Posts: 12,031 Member
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    .
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    I have yet to find any legitimate looking website that has the sole purpose of informing the public about weight loss that says you can in fact build muscle mass while eating at a caloric deficit in order to lose weight.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

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