Confused about female weight lifting

maggleberrypie
maggleberrypie Posts: 29 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Hi all,

I've been lifting weights for the last year as my main work out and I really enjoy it. After having a bit of a fitness break I've been consistently weight training for 2 months now and have progressed well e.g. 3kg flies to 8kg flies now and I'm currently doing 15 x4 or 5 times. I tend to increase / increase the weight as the weeks go on.

However, I was recommended last night by a fitness trainer (who does bikini fitness comps etc) that 8kg is too heavy and that I should use 3kg and increase the reps and do supersets. She explained why but I'm struggling to understand why this would be better.

I'd really appreciate thoughts. Thank you

Replies

  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    maggleberrypie wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I've been lifting weights for the last year as my main work out and I really enjoy it. After having a bit of a fitness break I've been consistently weight training for 2 months now and have progressed well e.g. 3kg flies to 8kg flies now and I'm currently doing 15 x4 or 5 times. I tend to increase / increase the weight as the weeks go on.

    However, I was recommended last night by a fitness trainer (who does bikini fitness comps etc) that 8kg is too heavy and that I should use 3kg and increase the reps and do supersets. She explained why but I'm struggling to understand why this would be better.

    I'd really appreciate thoughts. Thank you

    Different goals

    Yours is strength hers is endurance and cardio at a guess
  • cathipa
    cathipa Posts: 2,991 Member
    Was this fitness trainer Tracey Anderson? LOL.

    Ignore her and continue to increase your weight. You won't get bulky.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited August 2016
    PS My flies are generally superset with squats and lunges and between 7kg and 9Kg dependent on how I feel
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
    edited August 2016
    Don't listen to her.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    The only reason I can think of is that, after watching you fly, she thought your form was poor and so recommended lighter.

    If that is not the case then ---> this
    quiksylver296 wrote: »
    Forget her. Lift heavy (for you) and have fun.

  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    different goals. Your weight and reps/sets will be determined by what your goals are.
  • CasperNaegle
    CasperNaegle Posts: 936 Member
    lift heavy, add weights as you can. My wife and I both do this and when we can repeatedly hit 3 sets, 6 reps we add weight. She looks amazing!
  • wishfuljune
    wishfuljune Posts: 2,607 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    The only reason I can think of is that, after watching you fly, she thought your form was poor and so recommended lighter.

    If that is not the case then ---> this
    quiksylver296 wrote: »
    Forget her. Lift heavy (for you) and have fun.

    Agreed; sometimes I go lighter if I think I might be losing good form just for the sake of lifting heavier. But if your form is spot on even with 8kg weights, then keep doing it!
  • BillMcKay1
    BillMcKay1 Posts: 315 Member
    What she is suggesting is a geared towards muscle hypertrophy, specifically sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This is a common routine for physique, bikini competitors and bodybuilders. They are looking to build visible muscle mass over strength gains using lower weight but higher rep counts and things like supersets and dropsets. Higher weights with lower reps is primarily to build strength and utilization of your muscles over the pretty "beach" muscle".

    Neither is right or wrong. Just different. To me it is the difference between looking fit for a stage show and looking/performing like an athlete.
  • maggleberrypie
    maggleberrypie Posts: 29 Member
    Thank you all so much for your helpful comments! All have really helped me :-) and yes, I notice that body builders will lift light and superset when they're trying to get really lean whereas I want to get strong and I'm not worried about looking bulky coz I know it won't happen!
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    What she is suggesting is a geared towards muscle hypertrophy, specifically sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This is a common routine for physique, bikini competitors and bodybuilders. They are looking to build visible muscle mass over strength gains using lower weight but higher rep counts and things like supersets and dropsets. Higher weights with lower reps is primarily to build strength and utilization of your muscles over the pretty "beach" muscle".

    Neither is right or wrong. Just different. To me it is the difference between looking fit for a stage show and looking/performing like an athlete.

    That concept that there is strength (utuilisation) or bulk (pretty beach muscles) is do-do. There after neural adaptation is over and done with (early stages of strength conditioning) the biggest factor in strength is muscle size:


    https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/promotions/what-makes-some-people-stronger/

    (ACSA in this blog post which cites all refs)
  • BillMcKay1
    BillMcKay1 Posts: 315 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    What she is suggesting is a geared towards muscle hypertrophy, specifically sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This is a common routine for physique, bikini competitors and bodybuilders. They are looking to build visible muscle mass over strength gains using lower weight but higher rep counts and things like supersets and dropsets. Higher weights with lower reps is primarily to build strength and utilization of your muscles over the pretty "beach" muscle".

    Neither is right or wrong. Just different. To me it is the difference between looking fit for a stage show and looking/performing like an athlete.

    That concept that there is strength (utuilisation) or bulk (pretty beach muscles) is do-do. There after neural adaptation is over and done with (early stages of strength conditioning) the biggest factor in strength is muscle size:


    https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/promotions/what-makes-some-people-stronger/

    (ACSA in this blog post which cites all refs)
    From the study you linked
    This study confirms that muscle size is an important predictor of both isometric and dynamic (concentric isokinetic) muscle strength. The associations were strong for total ACSA (r = 0.74). This means that the inter-individual variance in muscle strength that can be predicted by muscular size is around 55%, which is a little over half of the total variance between people (R² = 0.55).

    That still leaves 45% unexplained, though

    Muscle size is neither the only thing that matters, nor is it irrelevant, when it comes to determining whether one person is stronger than another.

    Muscle size does matter in terms of pure strength, I didn't say it didn't. But it is not the only thing that determines the strength of a person. I, and I'm sure many others, have seen bodybuilders and ripped dudes with plenty of bulk destroyed in compound and other pure strength lifts by much smaller (in term of muscle mass) guys.


  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    What she is suggesting is a geared towards muscle hypertrophy, specifically sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This is a common routine for physique, bikini competitors and bodybuilders. They are looking to build visible muscle mass over strength gains using lower weight but higher rep counts and things like supersets and dropsets. Higher weights with lower reps is primarily to build strength and utilization of your muscles over the pretty "beach" muscle".

    Neither is right or wrong. Just different. To me it is the difference between looking fit for a stage show and looking/performing like an athlete.

    That concept that there is strength (utuilisation) or bulk (pretty beach muscles) is do-do. There after neural adaptation is over and done with (early stages of strength conditioning) the biggest factor in strength is muscle size:


    https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/promotions/what-makes-some-people-stronger/

    (ACSA in this blog post which cites all refs)

    uuuuh. i know girls half my size that lift twice as much as me, and i know guys bigger than me that i can out lift. There is a lot more involved in strength than size , i think size matters when all other things are equal, but nothing is ever equal. How you are put together matters, so does your form , technique and how you've trained. Muscles react differently when they are trained differently. And also what matters is how are you judging strength. A marathon runner can out run me, but i can out lift them. We are both strong in different ways, and very different size muscles.
    I always take studies and research with a grain of salt, and i rely a lot on what i see in the real world.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    BillMcKay1 wrote: »
    What she is suggesting is a geared towards muscle hypertrophy, specifically sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This is a common routine for physique, bikini competitors and bodybuilders. They are looking to build visible muscle mass over strength gains using lower weight but higher rep counts and things like supersets and dropsets. Higher weights with lower reps is primarily to build strength and utilization of your muscles over the pretty "beach" muscle".

    Neither is right or wrong. Just different. To me it is the difference between looking fit for a stage show and looking/performing like an athlete.

    That concept that there is strength (utuilisation) or bulk (pretty beach muscles) is do-do. There after neural adaptation is over and done with (early stages of strength conditioning) the biggest factor in strength is muscle size:


    https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/promotions/what-makes-some-people-stronger/

    (ACSA in this blog post which cites all refs)
    From the study you linked
    This study confirms that muscle size is an important predictor of both isometric and dynamic (concentric isokinetic) muscle strength. The associations were strong for total ACSA (r = 0.74). This means that the inter-individual variance in muscle strength that can be predicted by muscular size is around 55%, which is a little over half of the total variance between people (R² = 0.55).

    That still leaves 45% unexplained, though

    Muscle size is neither the only thing that matters, nor is it irrelevant, when it comes to determining whether one person is stronger than another.

    Muscle size does matter in terms of pure strength, I didn't say it didn't. But it is not the only thing that determines the strength of a person. I, and I'm sure many others, have seen bodybuilders and ripped dudes with plenty of bulk destroyed in compound and other pure strength lifts by much smaller (in term of muscle mass) guys.


    I did a terrible job of articulating my point (and may well dig a deeper hole here) my point was: There is no "Strength Muscle" or "Pretty Beach Muscle" it's just muscle and (and the reason I linked that blog post) the more of it you have, the stronger you will be (although there are other factors - as you point out there is the remaining 45%).

    There are good reasons that we see bodybuilders who perform poorly in big compound lifts, and that is (as @SonyaCele said) that how you train makes a big difference and (although I'm sure that there are BBs who focus mainly on big compound lifts) at the intermediate/advanced level the focus would be more on isolation work (not to mention the differences in rep ranges).
  • juliewatkin
    juliewatkin Posts: 764 Member
    If the trainer was talking specifically about flies, she may have a point. I do flies periodically but don't go heavy on them. I treat them more as a mobility exercise. I rarely go over 10lbs. It's not one that I push heavy weight on.

    Of course she may have been speaking from a hypertrophy standpoint as well but I would take that point more if she pointed it out when you were squatting or something.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    juliewatkin wrote: »
    If the trainer was talking specifically about flies, she may have a point. I do flies periodically but don't go heavy on them. I treat them more as a mobility exercise. I rarely go over 10lbs. It's not one that I push heavy weight on.

    Of course she may have been speaking from a hypertrophy standpoint as well but I would take that point more if she pointed it out when you were squatting or something.

    Indeed. It maybe have been poorly worded but that could very well have been the point. I treat accessory work as accessory work- it's not the goal to go big/go ham on them. I don't care if I"m not adding weight. I make sure I'm working and that's it. Sometimes I go up- sometimes I go down.

    For flies- some days it's 25 #'s. somedays I can manage 35. I don't care. A DB fly isn't my squat.

    thusly- I do not care.

    But I'm a powerlifter- not a stage competitor.
  • kelly_e_montana
    kelly_e_montana Posts: 1,999 Member
    edited August 2016
    So I was talking with Priscilla Ribic of IPF Hall of Fame two weeks ago, and they program heavy flyes for her a lot. Her coach said her biggest predictor of when her bench would go up was her gains on her flyes. She does three compound lift days per week and two days of accessory work. (She only squats once per week, which I found interesting.)

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