Are negative pullups the best place to start?

emmab0902
emmab0902 Posts: 2,338 Member
edited December 3 in Fitness and Exercise
Hi all
I'm a 45yo female who despite being a competitive swimmer, has never ever been able to do a single pullup.

I've been using the assisted pullup machine at the gym for the last four weeks, but don't think it's transferring to the real thing.

Currently I can do a dead hang for about 90 seconds, but can't move vertically lol.

Today I tried some negatives, with someone helping me up to the top, then doing a 5+ second descent. I only did 5 as am also being cautious following some rotator cuff tears after an accident two years ago.

I've watched Scooby's progression and wondered if people think starting with negatives is the way to go. I don't have a pullup bar so will be going to a school and using the bars in the playground, with someone to lift me up to the start position.

Keen to hear of people who have succeeded with this method, particularly females.

For the record, I am 164cm and 50kg so excess weight isn't the problem, just lack of strength!

Replies

  • jlynnschroyer
    jlynnschroyer Posts: 41 Member
    Well I just recently started doing it myself at my gym so well see together!
  • LazSommer
    LazSommer Posts: 1,851 Member
    Scooby has a good video for doing pull-ups. nice program, look him up on YouTube or scoobys workshop
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,997 Member
    edited August 2016
    Takes time to develop the strength to lift your full body weight doing pull ups or chin ups. Chin ups are easier because they activate your biceps. So, you might try to achieve chin ups 1st.

    I don't think negatives alone will ever build up the strength necessary to do a chin or pullup because it's much easier to just let your weight drop than it is to lift it up.

    The assistance exercises that should help are those that work your arms, shoulder girdle, pecs and lats, which would include (but are not limited to, in no particular order) : lat pulldowns, bent over rows, pushups, dips, bench presses and the overhead press. Throw in curls if you are going for chin ups 1st.

    Difficult for men to do them and even more difficult for women because the upper body is one of the weakest parts of a woman's body. It's achievable for everyone regardless of gender but it does takes time, diligence and consistently increasing effort to acquire the necessary strength.

    Good luck!
  • medic2038
    medic2038 Posts: 434 Member
    Negatives work because they're engaging the same muscle, just in reverse. Any time I've taken some time off of lifting and came back I've always used negatives until I was strong enough to do the exercise normally.

    The 2 that I really use it for are pullups and dips. So say your routine has a goal of 3x10 pullups. The first week you try to do one, and can't even do that, so you do 10n instead. Just use a chair/stool/whatever to boost yourself up, then lower yourself down. Repeat.

    Eventually you'll notice you're able to do 1,9n, then 2, 8n,etc.

    At least that's how it worked for me. I use negatives, and definitely stand behind them!
  • lemmie177
    lemmie177 Posts: 479 Member
    Yes! Negatives were what got me to my first pullup much more so than rows or assisted pullups. Frequency seemed to help a lot too. When I was dead set on doing the first pull up of my life, I was doing 5 sets every other day. Prior to that, I'd been doing around ~3 sets twice a week and progress was slow.
  • GiddyupTim
    GiddyupTim Posts: 2,819 Member
    Negatives are often recommended. Intuitively, they make sense.
    But at my gym they generally have people do banded pull-ups. There are different thickness bands that provide different levels of assistance. Have you tried those?
  • julie_broadhead
    julie_broadhead Posts: 178 Member
    Negatives are one thing you can do to help build strength. Most of the time, unless you are really holding tension through the whole negative, negatives focus most on the top of the range of motion. Since you will have a spotter, try some spotter assisted pull ups. Bend your knees and have the spotter hold your feet.
  • emmab0902
    emmab0902 Posts: 2,338 Member
    Negatives are one thing you can do to help build strength. Most of the time, unless you are really holding tension through the whole negative, negatives focus most on the top of the range of motion. Since you will have a spotter, try some spotter assisted pull ups. Bend your knees and have the spotter hold your feet.

    My spotter is my 11yo son lol so not sure that will go so well

  • Return2Fit
    Return2Fit Posts: 226 Member
    edited August 2016
    Negatives are good but also try lowering a bar on a Smith Machine or something. Lay on your back, then pull yourself up.
    Pull Ups are a staple of mine, and I can deadhang between 17 and 25 on any given day.
    I started out not being able to do any just like you, so I know you can get up to at least 10 which is great for a lady.
    Heck, there are females in our gym who smoke me on that pull-up bar, so who knows?
    Good Luck...
    PS:
    Here is a video I made 2 years ago completing the 20 Pull Up Challenge... :)
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    Scooby has given back to community for many years. He has a lot of knowledge especially on the training part.

    I know a few woman your age who are doing sets of 8 after seeing his vid a few years ago.
  • emmab0902
    emmab0902 Posts: 2,338 Member
    Just went to the school and used their bars. Did one set of 10 negative chin-ups then one set of 10 negative pull-ups. All with about a 5 second descent. Don't think I'll be able to move my arms tomorrow, and have to do a 3km swim in a couple of hours lol.
  • troytroy11
    troytroy11 Posts: 180 Member
    Good luck with the 3Km swim? That is hardcore!
  • emmab0902
    emmab0902 Posts: 2,338 Member
    troytroy11 wrote: »
    Good luck with the 3Km swim? That is hardcore!

    I'm a swimmer. Apparently we're meant to be able to do pullups lol.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
    I prefer negatives over bands and assistance machines. That doesn't mean to not use those other 2 options, but the bulk of your work at this point should be negatives.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    I've had a decent amount of success with my clients by incorporating eccentrics at high frequency (for some people I'll have them do these every training day) and we build volume so that over weeks they are doing more and more total eccentrics.

    We combine this with a variety of pulling accessories and it tends to do the trick.

    Seems that right around the time people get mad at me for programming so many damn eccentrics, they get to the point of being able to do full chin ups. So I'm possibly annoying them into it =)
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    LOL

    Is eccentric a posh way of saying negatives? @sidesteel
  • ttippie2000
    ttippie2000 Posts: 412 Member
    It's good to try a couple of pullup setups and figure out what fits you at your current weight/fitness level. Here's some options: 1) Negatives /w no assist, 2) negatives with band assist, 3) Pullups in different grips (palms in, palms out, wide grip, 4) pullups with weight hanging from waist, and my least favorite: 5) Pullup assist machine.

    Negatives help you focus on improving your time under tension. For example, I'm happy if I can make my negatives slow enough that I do two in a 1 minute interval during circuit training.

    I like bands for a lot of strength training stuff such as deadlifts, bench, squats, so I already have a variety of them sitting in my gym bag.

    Re: SideSteel's post above: You are lowering the weigh during the 'eccentric' phase of the lift whereas you are raising the weight during the 'concentric' phase of the lift.
  • LazSommer
    LazSommer Posts: 1,851 Member
    Sued0nim wrote: »
    LOL

    Is eccentric a posh way of saying negatives? @sidesteel

    I would use the word technical vs posh.
  • emmab0902
    emmab0902 Posts: 2,338 Member
    Did 20 negative pull-ups today with a 8-10 second lowering. Trying to find the balance between improving and not renewing my rotator cuff injury!
  • Return2Fit
    Return2Fit Posts: 226 Member
    emmab0902 wrote: »
    Did 20 negative pull-ups today with a 8-10 second lowering. Trying to find the balance between improving and not renewing my rotator cuff injury!
    GREAT!
    The key is to just stay on that bar and let your body begin its adaptation.

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    Best place? Depends on the person. I couldn't get a very overweight or obese person to do it. Inverted rows either with a suspension system or on the Smith machine seem to be a great place to start with just about anyone. As they progress, then I incorporate eccentric movements to help increase strength to start working toward them doing a full pull up on their own.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • mom22dogs
    mom22dogs Posts: 470 Member
    I recently started trying to do chin ups/pull ups because I maxed out the lat pulldowns. I screwed up my rotator cuff, so now I'm having to do exercises to rehab that. I'm working on negatives now as well. I was actually able to do 2 chin ups 1 pull up before I injured my rotator cuff.
  • singletrackmtbr
    singletrackmtbr Posts: 644 Member
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned working in inverted rows. This is a great way to add volume to your workout and works your back in a similar way. If you can't do pullups, to me this is a must add.
  • robhod1
    robhod1 Posts: 18 Member
    I can only speak from experience but at one stage about 6 months ago I couldn't do one pull up but can now do about 3 with good form. I cannot specify what the best exercise was that led to this but I did a mix of bent over rows, inverted rows, dead hangs, chin ups and negatives. However, I do feel it was the negatives that helped the most, though that might be in my mind! Just keep building your strength up and every so often try to do a proper pull up so that you can check your progress.
  • awnurmarc
    awnurmarc Posts: 125 Member
    If you have enough patience to be diligent at negatives, then that my be best. I never was. I used a barbell to do pendlay rows (barbell rows where you place the barbell on the floor between each rep). That got me strong enough to do a couple.
This discussion has been closed.