Starvation mode... a myth?

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Travis_GM
Travis_GM Posts: 141 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hello all!

I realize many people have some strong opinions about whether or not one should eat the lowest amount of calories they can to lose fat the fastest but I'd like to know if anyone has any solid evidence as to the fact that if you go too low your body will enter into "starvation mode"-- retain more calories than it should.

I'm not necessarily talking about ketosis or anything like that, just curious if one's goal is to lose fat and retain muscle, couldn't one just go on a protein fast (eating their 1g/lb. of body weight requirement in protein and no carbs or fat) to maximize their fat loss and minimize muscle loss?

Again, I'd really prefer some solid evidence in the form of scientific articles/journals or from a reputable source.

Thanks y'all!!
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Replies

  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Well, there is a limit to how much of your body fat your body can break down for energy per day. So if you go below a certain number of calories, even being protein-heavy on a VLCD isn't going to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss. Your body will use muscle to make up the difference between what it needs and the amount of body fat that can be broken down within a given period of time.

    And the continuance of breaking down of muscle (the heart is a muscle) you will eventually die.
  • Travis_GM
    Travis_GM Posts: 141 Member
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Well, there is a limit to how much of your body fat your body can break down for energy per day. So if you go below a certain number of calories, even being protein-heavy on a VLCD isn't going to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss. Your body will use muscle to make up the difference between what it needs and the amount of body fat that can be broken down within a given period of time.

    Hate to be a bug but can you provide evidence for that? I'd like to know for sure that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat per day and if it goes below that it'll use protein. Appreciate the responses!
  • Travis_GM
    Travis_GM Posts: 141 Member
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    VeryKatie wrote: »
    Empirical evidence would say that anorexic people would always be fat if starvation mode existed.
    Small adjustments to metabolism (thermal something or other) maybe, but not like how most talk about starvation mode. These small adjustments would likely have little to no effect. Sorry I don't have research on that. I personally am not willing to live that way so I didn't care much to research it.


    Good point. Anorexic people also don't have much muscle haha
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
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    The only articles I've found discuss PSMF in relation to severely obese subjects who can sustain a larger deficit than those with less weight to lose:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27335996
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25183847
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24027606
  • Travis_GM
    Travis_GM Posts: 141 Member
    edited August 2016
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    auddii wrote: »
    The only articles I've found discuss PSMF in relation to severely obese subjects who can sustain a larger deficit than those with less weight to lose:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27335996
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25183847
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24027606

    Thanks for that. I know someone mentioned I think someone with the last name McDonald and how he's done some studies or something on that... just can't find them. Thanks again :)
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    VeryKatie wrote: »
    Empirical evidence would say that anorexic people would always be fat if starvation mode existed.
    Small adjustments to metabolism (thermal something or other) maybe, but not like how most talk about starvation mode. These small adjustments would likely have little to no effect. Sorry I don't have research on that. I personally am not willing to live that way so I didn't care much to research it.

    Adaptive Thermogenesis.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,897 Member
    edited August 2016
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    YOLOboi19 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    The only articles I've found discuss PSMF in relation to severely obese subjects who can sustain a larger deficit than those with less weight to lose:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27335996
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25183847
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24027606

    Thanks for that. I know someone mentioned I think someone with the last name McDonald and how he's done some studies or something on that... just can't find them. Thanks again :)

    Lyle McDonald on Metabolic Damage: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/

    ...As originally claimed, metabolic damage referred to a phenomenon wherby dieters (typically females) who had been on low calories and performing a large amount of cardio (i.e. typical physique sport contest prep)
    1. Stopped losing fat despite maintained low calories/high activity
    2. Started regaining fat despite those same maintained low calories/high activity
    Hence their metabolism was damaged. I’m mainly bringing this up as the original concept has been somewhat, err let’s be nice and say, “modified” from the original (now being called metabolic adaptation, a concept I’ve been personally writing about for over a decade in pretty much all of my books).

    ...the science doesn’t support [starvation mode] in any way shape or form. No study in humans in 50 years has ever shown the claimed phenomenon. I mean not ever. Not a single study showing truly stopped fat loss in the face of a controlled deficit much less fat regain. And with plenty of other mechanisms (like water retention) to explain the “apparent” lack of fat loss that make more logical sense (Occam’s razor for the win).
  • Travis_GM
    Travis_GM Posts: 141 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    YOLOboi19 wrote: »
    auddii wrote: »
    The only articles I've found discuss PSMF in relation to severely obese subjects who can sustain a larger deficit than those with less weight to lose:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27335996
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25183847
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24027606

    Thanks for that. I know someone mentioned I think someone with the last name McDonald and how he's done some studies or something on that... just can't find them. Thanks again :)

    Lyle McDonald on Metabolic Damage: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/

    ...the science doesn’t support [starvation mode] in any way shape or form. No study in humans in 50 years has ever shown the claimed phenomenon. I mean not ever. Not a single study showing truly stopped fat loss in the face of a controlled deficit much less fat regain. And with plenty of other mechanisms (like water retention) to explain the “apparent” lack of fat loss that make more logical sense (Occam’s razor for the win).

    Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
  • dwygtd
    dwygtd Posts: 19 Member
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    total myth
  • chocolate_owl
    chocolate_owl Posts: 1,695 Member
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    Have you read these threads yet? Quotes from and links to reputable sources are included.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1077746/starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss/p1

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/761810
  • Travis_GM
    Travis_GM Posts: 141 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    My personal favorite: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

    hahaha the author of that has some serious opinions about people who believe in the starvation mode!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    edited August 2016
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    YOLOboi19 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Well, there is a limit to how much of your body fat your body can break down for energy per day. So if you go below a certain number of calories, even being protein-heavy on a VLCD isn't going to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss. Your body will use muscle to make up the difference between what it needs and the amount of body fat that can be broken down within a given period of time.

    Hate to be a bug but can you provide evidence for that? I'd like to know for sure that the body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat per day and if it goes below that it'll use protein. Appreciate the responses!

    I believe this paper is discussing it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615?dopt=AbstractPlus

    The amount I often see referenced is 31 calories per pound of body fat -- I don't know how much this paper supports it, as I have never read it.

    This doesn't really relate to "starvation mode," as people will continue to lose weight on a VLCD. It just won't be the fat they (presumably) want to target.
  • tcay584
    tcay584 Posts: 55 Member
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    YOLOboi19 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    My personal favorite: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

    hahaha the author of that has some serious opinions about people who believe in the starvation mode!

    I love this author!
  • louise5779
    louise5779 Posts: 82 Member
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    Lyle McDonald on Metabolic Damage: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/

    ...the science doesn’t support [starvation mode] in any way shape or form. No study in humans in 50 years has ever shown the claimed phenomenon. I mean not ever. Not a single study showing truly stopped fat loss in the face of a controlled deficit much less fat regain. And with plenty of other mechanisms (like water retention) to explain the “apparent” lack of fat loss that make more logical sense (Occam’s razor for the win).[/quote]

    Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks![/quote]

    First time I've read that. It's great
  • mrs_sjlarsen
    mrs_sjlarsen Posts: 76 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    My personal favorite: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

    Thanks for sharing this. Great article. :)
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    Practically speaking in terms of what you should care about for weight loss for your average joe yeah its a myth.
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,841 Member
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    What 99% of people who talk about not losing weight, starvation mode, lack of protein, blah, blah, blah macros need to read.

    Top 11 reasons you are not losing weight!
    http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/

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