Accounting for massive calorie deficits.
kwb1984
Posts: 6 Member
A little about me, I'm 6'3" and weighed 292 last week. I've been tracking calories for about a month now and have been aiming for around 2300 a day. I started at 310 last month, so far so good. Weight loss is the goal - I'm doing some lifting and bodyweight exercises, I play some racquetball, but most of my exercise comes from riding my bike. I started with short three and four mile loops around the neighborhood, and I'm going longer as my legs and sit-bones get conditioned.
Here's my concern - I haven't been increasing my calorie intake on ride days. I just haven't felt the need, which I've been attributing to underreporting my calorie intake, and I haven't been worried about it. I've been expecting to get fatigue and hunger as my rides get longer, and to need to adjust my calorie goal accordingly, but that hasn't happened. My last ride was thirteen miles for example, a 1300 calorie burn if the exercise tracker is accurate. I've not been noticing the fatigue and hunger I was expecting, and the gap between my calculated calorie burn and what I'm eating has grown too big to be accounted for by lazy record keeping. I should be hungry and tired, but I don't feel it, and now I'm unsure what my next steps should be.
My rides are going to get longer and more frequent. I understand that both too few and too many calories can be detrimental to weight loss. I understand that assuming an otherwise sedentary lifestyle, I don't want to aim for more than a few hundred calories less than my calculated BMR. I guess my specific question is, now that I'm adding these large amounts of cardio, how do I adjust my calorie goal to maximize weight loss at a healthy rate? Do I add calories to my diet in proportion to the calories burned to maintain that few hundred less than BMR + exercise? Once I'm riding as much as I want to (I have a fifteen mile commute each way, I intend to ride it daily) that's going to be another 3000 or so calories added to my diet. That's a LOT, and seems wrong. Or do I listen to my body, and only add calories incrementally as I experience fatigue and hunger?
Here's my concern - I haven't been increasing my calorie intake on ride days. I just haven't felt the need, which I've been attributing to underreporting my calorie intake, and I haven't been worried about it. I've been expecting to get fatigue and hunger as my rides get longer, and to need to adjust my calorie goal accordingly, but that hasn't happened. My last ride was thirteen miles for example, a 1300 calorie burn if the exercise tracker is accurate. I've not been noticing the fatigue and hunger I was expecting, and the gap between my calculated calorie burn and what I'm eating has grown too big to be accounted for by lazy record keeping. I should be hungry and tired, but I don't feel it, and now I'm unsure what my next steps should be.
My rides are going to get longer and more frequent. I understand that both too few and too many calories can be detrimental to weight loss. I understand that assuming an otherwise sedentary lifestyle, I don't want to aim for more than a few hundred calories less than my calculated BMR. I guess my specific question is, now that I'm adding these large amounts of cardio, how do I adjust my calorie goal to maximize weight loss at a healthy rate? Do I add calories to my diet in proportion to the calories burned to maintain that few hundred less than BMR + exercise? Once I'm riding as much as I want to (I have a fifteen mile commute each way, I intend to ride it daily) that's going to be another 3000 or so calories added to my diet. That's a LOT, and seems wrong. Or do I listen to my body, and only add calories incrementally as I experience fatigue and hunger?
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Replies
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You shouldn't eat below your BMR ideally, that's what you burn in a coma.
The strategy I would employ here is aiming for a calorie intake that allows for a loss of 1% of current weight. You do have more fat stores than others and can safely have a larger deficit and larger losses at this point than those who are smaller. However, waiting for negative side effects to kick in before making adjustments is foolhardy IMO. Eat at least some of your calorie burns back, start with 50% and see what happens. You can see where you need to increase/decrease based on average losses.
You are large, larger bodies need more fuel to function, throw in the good bit of strenuous exercise you are doing and it becomes even more important to adequately nourish and fuel that activity. Waiting to get fatigued, workouts to suffer or worse, injuries to occur, is not the approach to be taking if you want to make this sustainable, healthy and safe.1 -
I have similar problems, where I end up with massive (1000+) calorie deficits after exercise. I've found that relying on myself to feel hungry is not enough - my body will stop sending hunger signals when under stress, adn by the time I get the achy, "fritzy" feeling, it's too late and my energy stores are very depleted. The answer I've found is to force myself to eat something calorie dense after exercise - a sugary recovery bar with lots of water, a peanut butter and banana sandwich, that sort of thing. That seems to kick start my body into figuring out what it needs, then I might get very hungry very quickly (cue to eat some more) or thirsty, or something else.
I'd suggest setting MFP to your desired weight loss target, then eating all your calories and exercise calories each day. Use a cycle computer to accurately calculate calories lost from that ride - it may be less than you think. I ride around 20 miles a day and only burn 600 calories by my computer0 -
At 290 you have plenty of excess energy to pull from. As you drop more pounds you need to be aware of your energy exertion and also what you are taking in.
The calorie burn is pretty high, but you are also bigger. It won't stay that high, but you will have to start making sure you're taking in enough calories (and protein and carbs) to recover from your rides.2 -
Also to answer your question more directly, most eat back half of their reported exercise calories since these numbers are rarely spot on.
Another method is to use a TDEE calculator such as the one located at scoobysworkshop.com to figure out your daily TDEE with your weekly exercise already figured out. Then, you just eat that amount every day regardless of if it's a workout day or not.0 -
Thanks for the input. Eating half my exercise calories back sounds like a great place to start.tiny_clanger wrote: »Use a cycle computer to accurately calculate calories lost from that ride - it may be less than you think. I ride around 20 miles a day and only burn 600 calories by my computer
What computer do you use? Besides cadence, what would a dedicated bike computer do for me that I can't do with a smartphone app? I've been using my android to track miles, and I'm shopping for a Bluetooth heart rate monitor.0 -
I use the formula 100 cal for every 5 km (or approx. 33 cal/mile).
13 miles is 21 km.
Using the formula, that's approx. 400 calories.
Your 30 miles/day commute is approx. 50 km/day, and using the formula, that's about 1000 calories per day.
If you are going to use an app, go with Strava. It seems to record the most accurate calories that we've seen.
And also ...
When I exercise a little bit (like maybe an hour), I eat about half my calories back.
When I exercise a bit more (say, 1-3 or 4 hours), I eat about 75% of my calories back.
When I exercise a lot (more than 4 hours a day), I eat about 95% of my calories back.2 -
Agree with eating back half, and also with not worrying about it until your body tells you to because you're not tracking in detail. If you're not carefully weighing everything you are likely underestimating your intake, but that's completely okay unless and until your weight loss stalls (underestimating), or if you find yourself too tired and miserable to get through your workouts (overestimating).0
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1300 calories for 13 miles seems very high.0
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It may be, I'm no expert. I'm just going by what MFP tells me.0
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They're estimates based on a statistics from a group on individuals. Like any set of statistics there will be individuals closer to, and further away from, the mean. The trick is managing the numbers and gathering our own personal data. I personally find MFP is very close for me.1 -
It may be, I'm no expert. I'm just going by what MFP tells me.
And vigorous cycling is like racing a time trial or something like that.
I log myself in the 16-19 km/h light cycling category, even if I climbed our local mountain or did intervals. That may be underestimating a little bit, but that's OK. Better than overestimating the calories burned.
The calories burned I get by selecting the light cycling category are quite similar to the calories I burn using the 100 cal/5 km formula.
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A little about me, I'm 6'3" and weighed 292 last week. I've been tracking calories for about a month now and have been aiming for around 2300 a day. I started at 310 last month, so far so good. Weight loss is the goal - I'm doing some lifting and bodyweight exercises, I play some racquetball, but most of my exercise comes from riding my bike. I started with short three and four mile loops around the neighborhood, and I'm going longer as my legs and sit-bones get conditioned.
Here's my concern - I haven't been increasing my calorie intake on ride days. I just haven't felt the need, which I've been attributing to underreporting my calorie intake, and I haven't been worried about it. I've been expecting to get fatigue and hunger as my rides get longer, and to need to adjust my calorie goal accordingly, but that hasn't happened. My last ride was thirteen miles for example, a 1300 calorie burn if the exercise tracker is accurate. I've not been noticing the fatigue and hunger I was expecting, and the gap between my calculated calorie burn and what I'm eating has grown too big to be accounted for by lazy record keeping. I should be hungry and tired, but I don't feel it, and now I'm unsure what my next steps should be.
My rides are going to get longer and more frequent. I understand that both too few and too many calories can be detrimental to weight loss. I understand that assuming an otherwise sedentary lifestyle, I don't want to aim for more than a few hundred calories less than my calculated BMR. I guess my specific question is, now that I'm adding these large amounts of cardio, how do I adjust my calorie goal to maximize weight loss at a healthy rate? Do I add calories to my diet in proportion to the calories burned to maintain that few hundred less than BMR + exercise? Once I'm riding as much as I want to (I have a fifteen mile commute each way, I intend to ride it daily) that's going to be another 3000 or so calories added to my diet. That's a LOT, and seems wrong. Or do I listen to my body, and only add calories incrementally as I experience fatigue and hunger?
You've lost 18 pounds in a month - is that in line with the calorie deficit you set?- If so, since you aren't eating back exercise calories, you're eating more than you think.
- However, if you are losing faster than you planned, you do need to eat back some exercise calories. If you're not hungry, go for calorie dense foods like peanut butter. I can down 500 calories of a peanut butter/banana/protein powder smoothie with no effort at all.
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As a rule of thumb I normally use a range of 7-8 cals for minute of high cardio burn. I have a Fitbit heart rate monitor and all my runs, Zumba classes,' body combat any high non stop cardio comes is 7-8 cals per minute. Never had it higher then that. I am only female 5'3" weighing 125 pounds though.0
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We cannot base his burns on our own, especially if you are a female. He's a 290lb male, it takes a lot of energy to move yourself. My burns now are half what they were when I started 50lbs ago and I ate most of my burns back then (admittedly from an HRM but i don't always do steady state either).3
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Long term I personally think that excessive deficits are a bad thing. Once in a while not so much, as long as you eat and recovery properly over a couple days if needed.
I've found quite a lack of information on maximum single day deficits in general. For long term endurance stuff or certain exercises, I just really get sick of eating back all the calories on certain days, and finding the balance between recovery food and what is smart/safe can be tricky.0 -
Rode to work last night and home this morning. Total of 31 miles. NOW I'm hungry. Frickin' starving, in fact.
Mapmyride says that was a total of 2.5 kcal. I'll eat half of that back. I'll also use Strava next time and see if they agree. I've also got a heart rate monitor on order, that might have an effect on how these trackers count calories too?
Now please excuse me while I go eat a horse and then go to bed.3 -
A little about me, I'm 6'3" and weighed 292 last week. I've been tracking calories for about a month now and have been aiming for around 2300 a day. I started at 310 last month, so far so good. Weight loss is the goal - I'm doing some lifting and bodyweight exercises, I play some racquetball, but most of my exercise comes from riding my bike. I started with short three and four mile loops around the neighborhood, and I'm going longer as my legs and sit-bones get conditioned.
Here's my concern - I haven't been increasing my calorie intake on ride days. I just haven't felt the need, which I've been attributing to underreporting my calorie intake, and I haven't been worried about it. I've been expecting to get fatigue and hunger as my rides get longer, and to need to adjust my calorie goal accordingly, but that hasn't happened. My last ride was thirteen miles for example, a 1300 calorie burn if the exercise tracker is accurate. I've not been noticing the fatigue and hunger I was expecting, and the gap between my calculated calorie burn and what I'm eating has grown too big to be accounted for by lazy record keeping. I should be hungry and tired, but I don't feel it, and now I'm unsure what my next steps should be.
My rides are going to get longer and more frequent. I understand that both too few and too many calories can be detrimental to weight loss. I understand that assuming an otherwise sedentary lifestyle, I don't want to aim for more than a few hundred calories less than my calculated BMR. I guess my specific question is, now that I'm adding these large amounts of cardio, how do I adjust my calorie goal to maximize weight loss at a healthy rate? Do I add calories to my diet in proportion to the calories burned to maintain that few hundred less than BMR + exercise? Once I'm riding as much as I want to (I have a fifteen mile commute each way, I intend to ride it daily) that's going to be another 3000 or so calories added to my diet. That's a LOT, and seems wrong. Or do I listen to my body, and only add calories incrementally as I experience fatigue and hunger?
If you don't want to eat more often as your exercise increases, I suggest adding in some calorie dense foods. Examples would be trail mix, nuts, peanut/almond butters, and other high calorie foods. You don't want to wait until you get fatigued to eat a calorie goal that is appropriate for your size or your exercise level because then you might crash. Increase now in accordance with what you do, and increase as needed so that you are properly fueling your body.
Congrats on your weight loss so far, and on being able to ride a bike as much as you do!0 -
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Not for some people. But, for me, a 55 year old woman with a weight range between 140 and 145 who weight lifts 3 days a week, with cardio after, and runs 3 days a week, they are a few hundred too high. That's why I use the estimates on my heart reate monitor, because they have proven to be more accurate for me.0 -
I am fairly active and at 173 pounds don't have all that much more to use. I go by the rule that I should intentionally eat more on days I am active. If my activity increases my TDEE by 500 calories I do eat that back. That said I've had days where my calculated TDEE was 6000. If ai stuck with my goal of eating 500 below my TDEE I should have eaten 5500 calories. I didn't though I ate only 3400. Reasons were some doubt in accuracy of excercise burn estimates and the fact that eating that much especially while being active throughout the day was pretty much impossible.
My take is this...if I have a bunch of days in a row like that and start feeling weaker or fatigued I need to ease up and refered a bit with lower activity. If I don't I carry on still tracking my weight and calories. So far I've felt fine and my weightloss is a steady pound per week as intended.1 -
robertw486 wrote: »For long term endurance stuff or certain exercises, I just really get sick of eating back all the calories on certain days, and finding the balance between recovery food and what is smart/safe can be tricky.
No kidding. I'm sitting here 300 cal short of my normal 2300 goal and still needing to find room for another 1250 on top of that just to eat back half my exercise calories, and I don't know how I'm going to do it. Got some salmon in the skillet and squash in the oven and I'll have extra bleu cheese on the salad and see where I'm at.
Next time I'll eat more earlier in my day.Congrats on your weight loss so far, and on being able to ride a bike as much as you do!
Thanks! That 290 isn't ALL fat.
Aaron_K123 wrote: »My take is this...if I have a bunch of days in a row like that and start feeling weaker or fatigued I need to ease up and refered a bit with lower activity. If I don't I carry on still tracking my weight and calories. So far I've felt fine and my weightloss is a steady pound per week as intended.
I think this is pretty much where I'm at with it. It's all just numbers anyway, so I'm not too hung up on making everything match. I'll fiddle with my calorie goals as necessary to keep the pounds coming off and me feeling good.0 -
robertw486 wrote: »For long term endurance stuff or certain exercises, I just really get sick of eating back all the calories on certain days, and finding the balance between recovery food and what is smart/safe can be tricky.
No kidding. I'm sitting here 300 cal short of my normal 2300 goal and still needing to find room for another 1250 on top of that just to eat back half my exercise calories, and I don't know how I'm going to do it. Got some salmon in the skillet and squash in the oven and I'll have extra bleu cheese on the salad and see where I'm at.
Next time I'll eat more earlier in my day.Congrats on your weight loss so far, and on being able to ride a bike as much as you do!
Thanks! That 290 isn't ALL fat.Aaron_K123 wrote: »My take is this...if I have a bunch of days in a row like that and start feeling weaker or fatigued I need to ease up and refered a bit with lower activity. If I don't I carry on still tracking my weight and calories. So far I've felt fine and my weightloss is a steady pound per week as intended.
I think this is pretty much where I'm at with it. It's all just numbers anyway, so I'm not too hung up on making everything match. I'll fiddle with my calorie goals as necessary to keep the pounds coming off and me feeling good.
I agree with one of the other posters, that you are not feeling fatigued at this time because of excess reserves that you have. When I first started on my 87 pound weight loss journey, I ate about 400 calories less than I do now and exercised at least 2.5 times more than I do. I didn't get fatigued or hungry. Now, that doesn't work. At first, I couldn't understand why until I realized that I have far less reserves to pull energy from.
Listen to your body and respond accordingly. Good luck on your journey and many congratulations on your progress!
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leejoyce31 wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »For long term endurance stuff or certain exercises, I just really get sick of eating back all the calories on certain days, and finding the balance between recovery food and what is smart/safe can be tricky.
No kidding. I'm sitting here 300 cal short of my normal 2300 goal and still needing to find room for another 1250 on top of that just to eat back half my exercise calories, and I don't know how I'm going to do it. Got some salmon in the skillet and squash in the oven and I'll have extra bleu cheese on the salad and see where I'm at.
Next time I'll eat more earlier in my day.Congrats on your weight loss so far, and on being able to ride a bike as much as you do!
Thanks! That 290 isn't ALL fat.Aaron_K123 wrote: »My take is this...if I have a bunch of days in a row like that and start feeling weaker or fatigued I need to ease up and refered a bit with lower activity. If I don't I carry on still tracking my weight and calories. So far I've felt fine and my weightloss is a steady pound per week as intended.
I think this is pretty much where I'm at with it. It's all just numbers anyway, so I'm not too hung up on making everything match. I'll fiddle with my calorie goals as necessary to keep the pounds coming off and me feeling good.
I agree with one of the other posters, that you are not feeling fatigued at this time because of excess reserves that you have. When I first started on my 87 pound weight loss journey, I ate about 400 calories less than I do now and exercised at least 2.5 times more than I do. I didn't get fatigued or hungry. Now, that doesn't work. At first, I couldn't understand why until I realized that I have far less reserves to pull energy from.
Listen to your body and respond accordingly. Good luck on your journey and many congratulations on your progress!
I'd agree with this. If you do start feeling fatigued or weakened then listen to your body and don't be afraid to increase your intake until you can perform again, you can still lose weight that way. If it is to the point where you literally can't eat enough to sustain that level of activity then I guess you need to do less activity, but it probably won't come to that.0 -
You can estimate how accurate your burns are for you by evaluating what you've logged vs what you've lost.
Are they going to be 100% accurate? Probably not. Are they going to be MORE than 50% accurate? Probably yes. Walking, running, and cycling are all activities that have been studied and measured quite extensively. Strava with an HRM and power meter is almost like a portable lab on wheels.
You should NOT be logging, even while obese 50%+ deficits.
25% on a consistent basis... maybe. Drop that down to 20% or even 15% when you're no longer obese. One day of 30% or bigger? Probably won't hurt anything. Keep doing it all the time and you will be affected and will not even know you were till much later (after some damage has already been done)
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Funny that people think because a person is large and overweight that they have extra energy stores to pull from.
The same folks who thought the camel's hump was full of water I suppose.0 -
Birddog6424 wrote: »Funny that people think because a person is large and overweight that they have extra energy stores to pull from.
The same folks who thought the camel's hump was full of water I suppose.
?
What do you think the fat is there for? It's a store of energy. That's what it is. 3500 calories in every pound. That is the entire purpose of the body storing fat. For energy.
But that doesn't mean overweight people should starve themselves. OP, why not just log the exercise on mfp? That gives you extra calories to eat. You don't need to eat them the same day, but try and average over the week. I often finish the day under goal if I've had a lot of exercise, then I'll be hungry the next day or the day after and go over goal.
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Birddog6424 wrote: »Funny that people think because a person is large and overweight that they have extra energy stores to pull from.
The same folks who thought the camel's hump was full of water I suppose.
What do you suppose all that extra weight is there for? And what's your understanding of how/where the body stores energy?2
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