Smith vs. Barbell Squats
peaceout_aly
Posts: 2,018 Member
Hello! After lifting for the past year, I clearly I realize the benefits of barbell squats vs. Smith machine squats. The core muscles are worked much more thanks to the amount of balance that it takes to stabilize the bar while squatting while the machine helps you out and you get to focus on pushing weight.
Well, due to bad feet (by bad I mean reconstructive surgery + implant on one and future reconstructive surgery on the other within the year) I have terrible balance and started off with the Smith machine. After a year of heavy lifting, I feel like I'm strong and stable enough to work the barbell. I will still use the Smith for "seated" squats (feet far in front, squat position looks like you're about to sit on the floor), Bulgarians, power curtsy squats and thrusts, but I would LOVE to build up strength for regular and wide stance squats on the barbell. Currently (on the Smith) my reps are as follows - 1 x 15 x 110, 1 x 10 x 160 and 1 x 12 x 130. I can max out at 200 for 3 reps. Ideas on how to begin integrating the barbell? Should I start off with my basic starting weight (110) and then slowly go heavier, or start with the bar? Will a difference in muscles worked be noticed right away (a.k.a. soreness in different areas, more so glutes/hams/etc.)?
Tips, advice and previous experience with Smith to barbell transitioning would be greatly appreciated.
Well, due to bad feet (by bad I mean reconstructive surgery + implant on one and future reconstructive surgery on the other within the year) I have terrible balance and started off with the Smith machine. After a year of heavy lifting, I feel like I'm strong and stable enough to work the barbell. I will still use the Smith for "seated" squats (feet far in front, squat position looks like you're about to sit on the floor), Bulgarians, power curtsy squats and thrusts, but I would LOVE to build up strength for regular and wide stance squats on the barbell. Currently (on the Smith) my reps are as follows - 1 x 15 x 110, 1 x 10 x 160 and 1 x 12 x 130. I can max out at 200 for 3 reps. Ideas on how to begin integrating the barbell? Should I start off with my basic starting weight (110) and then slowly go heavier, or start with the bar? Will a difference in muscles worked be noticed right away (a.k.a. soreness in different areas, more so glutes/hams/etc.)?
Tips, advice and previous experience with Smith to barbell transitioning would be greatly appreciated.
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Replies
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You should start off with just the bar and add from there. 110 with the bar is going to feel a lot different from 110 on the Smith and since the form is different it's easier to make the adjustments at 45 lbs rather than 110 lbs.4
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singingflutelady wrote: »You should start off with just the bar and add from there. 110 with the bar is going to feel a lot different from 110 on the Smith and since the form is different it's easier to make the adjustments at 45 lbs rather than 110 lbs.
Perfect! Start with the bar and work up you think? Definitely trying it on my next heavy leg day (which I think is Saturday??) Excited! Kept feeling disappointed with gains even though I have a pretty heavy PR, but then I realized it's most likely not activating all those leg/glute muscles. Really hoping that I see a lot of progress as I start integrating the barbell squats.0 -
Just make sure your form is good with just the bar before moving up. I have had to reload a few times to work on form and it sucks so it's better to get it right at the beginning1
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singingflutelady wrote: »Just make sure your form is good with just the bar before moving up. I have had to reload a few times to work on form and it sucks so it's better to get it right at the beginning
I'm nervous to start. I've been told my form is good with the Smith machine, but a barbell will be a totally different feel. Do you suggest a spot even if I'm starting with the barbell? Or just wing it?0 -
Do you have a squat or power rack you can do your squats in? If you have that, do your squats in one of those so you don't need a spot. I've had to bail once and I was really glad to have that option instead of having to toss the bar off my back. I second singingflutelady that you should start with the bar. I also had to deload to work on form and it really sucked. So really focus on form. To start you might want to just add it to your workout as an assistance type exercise and as the weight comes up you can start replacing the smith squats with barbell squats.0
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I'll second the power rack or squat rack for lifting if one is available. The reality is spotting a squat is a very difficult task and most people don't know how to do it properly and risk getting both of you hurt.
If your gym has some of the preset bars or a ladies bar, you should start with one of those (due to your balance issue). Once you're comfortable with the weight and your balance, you can start working up.
The squat will feel much different and use different muscles than a smith squat. You'll likely find yourself positioning your feet differently and the bar path may not be a straight line. You should video your sets and see how your form goes.
Allan Misner
NASM Certified Personal Trainer,
Host of the 40+ Fitness Podcast1 -
Do you have a squat or power rack you can do your squats in? If you have that, do your squats in one of those so you don't need a spot. I've had to bail once and I was really glad to have that option instead of having to toss the bar off my back. I second singingflutelady that you should start with the bar. I also had to deload to work on form and it really sucked. So really focus on form. To start you might want to just add it to your workout as an assistance type exercise and as the weight comes up you can start replacing the smith squats with barbell squats.
That's a great idea! That was my plan for this weekend. Kind of just "try it out" and still do my typical Smith circuit in addition to make sure I keep muscle on and don't regress at all. I'll definitely be using your advice about starting with the bar as well! We have a rack (the angled kind that has the metal rods that you can adjust for setting the bar on in front...not the entire rectangle shaped rack that you stand in) , but last time I made this attempt I was slightly too short to use it as a back-up...I had to stand on my tip toes to get the bar back where it belongs. Hahahaha #shortpeopleproblems0 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »Hello! After lifting for the past year, I clearly I realize the benefits of barbell squats vs. Smith machine squats. The core muscles are worked much more thanks to the amount of balance that it takes to stabilize the bar while squatting while the machine helps you out and you get to focus on pushing weight.
Well, due to bad feet (by bad I mean reconstructive surgery + implant on one and future reconstructive surgery on the other within the year) I have terrible balance and started off with the Smith machine. After a year of heavy lifting, I feel like I'm strong and stable enough to work the barbell. I will still use the Smith for "seated" squats (feet far in front, squat position looks like you're about to sit on the floor), Bulgarians, power curtsy squats and thrusts, but I would LOVE to build up strength for regular and wide stance squats on the barbell. Currently (on the Smith) my reps are as follows - 1 x 15 x 110, 1 x 10 x 160 and 1 x 12 x 130. I can max out at 200 for 3 reps. Ideas on how to begin integrating the barbell? Should I start off with my basic starting weight (110) and then slowly go heavier, or start with the bar? Will a difference in muscles worked be noticed right away (a.k.a. soreness in different areas, more so glutes/hams/etc.)?
Tips, advice and previous experience with Smith to barbell transitioning would be greatly appreciated.
Would lunges help with the balance?0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »peaceout_aly wrote: »Hello! After lifting for the past year, I clearly I realize the benefits of barbell squats vs. Smith machine squats. The core muscles are worked much more thanks to the amount of balance that it takes to stabilize the bar while squatting while the machine helps you out and you get to focus on pushing weight.
Well, due to bad feet (by bad I mean reconstructive surgery + implant on one and future reconstructive surgery on the other within the year) I have terrible balance and started off with the Smith machine. After a year of heavy lifting, I feel like I'm strong and stable enough to work the barbell. I will still use the Smith for "seated" squats (feet far in front, squat position looks like you're about to sit on the floor), Bulgarians, power curtsy squats and thrusts, but I would LOVE to build up strength for regular and wide stance squats on the barbell. Currently (on the Smith) my reps are as follows - 1 x 15 x 110, 1 x 10 x 160 and 1 x 12 x 130. I can max out at 200 for 3 reps. Ideas on how to begin integrating the barbell? Should I start off with my basic starting weight (110) and then slowly go heavier, or start with the bar? Will a difference in muscles worked be noticed right away (a.k.a. soreness in different areas, more so glutes/hams/etc.)?
Tips, advice and previous experience with Smith to barbell transitioning would be greatly appreciated.
Would lunges help with the balance?
That was actually the first leg work out I started with (before heavy lifting)...well that and the leg press. I began with non-weighted walking lunges which I could barely do without my implant pinching and foot crunching up. Now, I can hold 15 lb. dumbbells in each hand and usually do 4 x 20 steps (10 lunges x leg) every power leg day which is still a struggle if it's raining or I'm flaring, but that definitely helped build up strength and balance.0 -
Mark Rippetoe has a bunch of low bar squat videos, with basically everything from bar placement to how to move your hips. It's all on the starting strength channel youtube, and is pretty easy to follow. It would probably be a pretty decent place to start if you're looking to transition into that.0
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Allan thrall has some great form videos on YouTube as well1
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leg press is better0
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Definitely watch some videos online. Use a light weight for a few sets to see what your preferred stance. Don't go so wide that your knees track inward.0
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piperdown44 wrote: »
Saying it doesn't isn't proof. I'm providing solid anecdotal evidence that the leg press is superior.0 -
Let's not ruin the thread.0
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piperdown44 wrote: »
Saying it doesn't isn't proof. I'm providing solid anecdotal evidence that the leg press is superior.
How is saying lifting more weight on the leg press makes you stronger? Squats involve almost the entire body, making overall strength a lot better.
I'm assuming you think all the powerlifters have it wrong then?
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He is trolling. It's a joke from another thread. @piperdown441
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He is trolling. It's a joke from another thread. @piperdown44
Ah. Okay.
Not that I have anything against leg press as I use them for volume work after squats (and deadz).
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My advice is don't be ashamed to be squatting an empty bar or low weights. I'm in a similar situation to you, lower back injury. I just accept that I'm going to be somewhat at a disadvantage with barbell squats and take it slow. Spent months getting perfect form with an empty bar, then 5s, 10s, now I can do 70kg for 3x10 and 110kg 1 rep max. Nothing special but proud of it. The hardest part was leaving my ego at the door.0
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If there are any certified kinesiologists or medial exercise specialists in your area I would talk to one of them. With your medical treatment you will definitely want to make sure you aren't doing anything that will injure you, it's just not worth it. Good luck to you.0
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piperdown44 wrote: »He is trolling. It's a joke from another thread. @piperdown44
Ah. Okay.
Not that I have anything against leg press as I use them for volume work after squats (and deadz).
I love the leg press as well, but I know the pros and cons of it. I definitely wouldn't use it as replacement for squats or dead lifts! LOL0 -
Barbell0
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peaceout_aly wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »He is trolling. It's a joke from another thread. @piperdown44
Ah. Okay.
Not that I have anything against leg press as I use them for volume work after squats (and deadz).
I love the leg press as well, but I know the pros and cons of it. I definitely wouldn't use it as replacement for squats or dead lifts! LOL
I split my leg workout over two days and use the leg press on deadlift day and squats on the other day along with Romanian deadlifts. This seems to workout rather well and I can walk afterwards!
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