Alternatives to heavy squat - Chiro says no
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joshuak30
Posts: 110 Member
Long time lurker, first time poster here.
To be brief, I have been working towards a healthy, sustainable weight for a while now. Lost ~28 pounds since January of this year, did plenty of weight lifting and cycling, and am basically at my long-term goal weight.
My next step is to transition to recomp, and see where that gets me. I'm not as lean as I want to be yet, but am weary of cutting (and the lack of energy and power that brought) so I think it's time to figure out where I will be able to maintain.
A big part of that will be heavy weight training. I'm experienced, but have never done advanced techniques. Lots of the basics over the years, such as squat, deadlift, bench, rows, pullups, etc. Recently I have been doing Lyle McDonald's GBR and really enjoying it.
My question: What alternatives are there to heavy back squats and heavy leg press? I've recently started seeing a chiropractor about back issues that I've had for a while, and he thinks I should stop doing back squats and leg press. He said I could do front squats up to body weight, but that's not enough weight for me to continue to progress.
Hopefully this moratorium on heavy back squats is temporary while we correct the issues in my back, and I will be able to do them again someday. But for now, I need alternatives that will give me a similar level of recruitment and stress without putting the weight up on my back/shoulders. Specifically, is there a technique to make lunges(or something) better mimic squats?
There's a ton of experience on these boards, and I'd love to hear thoughts from others who have more knowledge than me.
To be brief, I have been working towards a healthy, sustainable weight for a while now. Lost ~28 pounds since January of this year, did plenty of weight lifting and cycling, and am basically at my long-term goal weight.
My next step is to transition to recomp, and see where that gets me. I'm not as lean as I want to be yet, but am weary of cutting (and the lack of energy and power that brought) so I think it's time to figure out where I will be able to maintain.
A big part of that will be heavy weight training. I'm experienced, but have never done advanced techniques. Lots of the basics over the years, such as squat, deadlift, bench, rows, pullups, etc. Recently I have been doing Lyle McDonald's GBR and really enjoying it.
My question: What alternatives are there to heavy back squats and heavy leg press? I've recently started seeing a chiropractor about back issues that I've had for a while, and he thinks I should stop doing back squats and leg press. He said I could do front squats up to body weight, but that's not enough weight for me to continue to progress.
Hopefully this moratorium on heavy back squats is temporary while we correct the issues in my back, and I will be able to do them again someday. But for now, I need alternatives that will give me a similar level of recruitment and stress without putting the weight up on my back/shoulders. Specifically, is there a technique to make lunges(or something) better mimic squats?
There's a ton of experience on these boards, and I'd love to hear thoughts from others who have more knowledge than me.
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Replies
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Personally I would do more single-leg exercises like lounges, split sqauts and one-leg RDLs. They effectively halve the load on your back. You could also try barbell hip thrusts and see if that aggravates your back issues.2
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Honestly if I would have listened to my chiropractor, I would have never progressed as far as I have. I have sciatica (mild) down my left leg and it's been chronic since my 20's. Got it break dancing when I started at 19 (I'm pretty sure) and it got worse into my 20's. Went to a chiropractor for 6 months to help relieve it and though I loved the adjustments, his suggestion was to give up leg workouts. I refused. At the time I weighed around 150lbs and wanted to get up to 175lbs and that wasn't going to happen if I didn't train legs.
So long story short, I still have chronic sciatica, but it's bearable and still squat and leg press heavy (for me).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I not sure this can be considered a direct replacement, but you could consider barbell hip thrusts for your glutes and hamstrings. They are very much easier on the back imo, and my favourite exercise :-)2
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THIS IS NOT ADVICE, just telling my experience. I've had the usual intermittent lower back pain most of my life. I'd walk around all crooked for a week at a time. Chiro's did their thing countless times, told me not to lift, made no improvement. Now, in my mid 50's lost the 20 extra pounds & started the 5x5 lifting program. I started with light weights. My back protested a little at first, but now that it's strengthened, it never felt better. Squats now are up to 225. I lift things at work (tractor trailer parts), no problem. It's the best thing I ever did for my back. That's just me. Not saying what you should do.1
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I'd get the opinion of a doctor, with referral to experienced physical therapist.12
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I agree with the 2nd opinion idea. My chiropractor tells me to lift heavy. He's always asking what my current 1RM is. I have slight scoliosis and he says keeping the muscles strong will keep it from getting worse.1
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My question: What alternatives are there to heavy back squats and heavy leg press? I've recently started seeing a chiropractor about back issues that I've had for a while, and he thinks I should stop doing back squats and leg press. He said I could do front squats up to body weight, but that's not enough weight for me to continue to progress.
Quite simply, your chiropractor knows jack about human physiology and/or physics. Whether the load is in front or in back, it loads your spine. Horizontal leg press doesn't really load the spine. 45º leg press loads the spine considerably less than a squat.
In short, get an opinion from a physiotherapist, not a chiro.
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my doctors told me not to lift heavy. Thats just their generic text book recommendation, so that you dont get hurt and blame them for saying you could do it. Listen to your body, if I have an active injury, I let that heal but if i feel fine, i go for it. Heavy back squats made me so strong its protected my back in all other areas of my life.
Can you do deadlifts?
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Another vote for seeing a doctor who will refer you to a physical therapist. If I had listened to the chiro I went to earlier this year, I'd still be in pain and I'd be $3500 poorer. I finally went to my doctor who sent me to a PT; turns out my glutes are weak as hell and my back took on all the load from squats and deadlifts. In one month of seeing a physical therapist, I already see improvement, but I have a long road ahead undoing all the damage I did.
Glute bridges, hip thrusts, single leg work (rdl, glute bridge, hip thrust, bulgarian split squats) and anything that strengthen your glutes will help.2 -
The first thing I'd do is see my GP and get referred to a physical therapist...they are going to be far more qualified to tell you what you can/can't/should/shouldn't be doing on the exercise front and they can give you specific exercises to address your issues. Don't get me wrong, I love my chiropractor and he's done wonders for me, but he doesn't no squat about exercise physiology.
I'm recovering from a herniated disk currently and can't do back squats or leg press...doing so makes my arms and hands go numb...I have a number of PT exercises that I do to address the actual issue and they have helped immensely and I hope to be back to things early in the new year...in the meantime, I'm doing more single leg stuff...step ups, lunges, bulgarian split squats, etc. I also can do front squats.
I highly recommend seeing a PT, especially if you want to get back to doing the things you used to do...mine has been a huge help and sticking with my cheesy PT exercises have made a huge difference.1 -
Thanks for the responses, everyone. Lots of varying opinions on this type of stuff, which I enjoy.
More background: I'm 25 years old, and have dealt with varying degrees of what I will call minor chronic back pain for years. Most of the pain is due to being an engineer which requires sitting at a desk for 9-11 hours a day, plus driving. So the problem isn't lifting, really. I went to the chiropractor because I have started feeling numbness and tingling in my limbs, plus some other inflammation-related things. My hope is that treatment can reduce inflammation, allow the tissues to heal in their proper positions, and then I will be smart about how I treat my back for the rest of my life so I don't need continued treatment.
To the lifting! My chiropractor thinks that I will have substantial improvement in the inflammation issues in 3-6 weeks. During that time, I figured I would follow his advice to a "T" and see where it got me. After that, I'd re-*kitten* and decide how to move forward.
As to getting a second opinion, I will if things don't improve in 6 weeks. My issues aren't major, but they are enough to warrant attention.
For what it's worth, I have always felt better when I'm squatting 1-2 times a week. My back loves it. So when I ask for alternatives, it's because I really want to give the chiropractor a chance to make this better. I do like to hear that lots of you have ignored the "don't lift heavy!" advice from various sources and been fine for it. It does seem that most doctors think heavy weight lifting is bad.
Also, thanks for the suggestions for the single-leg lifts. I'll start incorporating those and see how I progress.1 -
^ I'm in a similar situation actually. Routines like agile 8 and limber 11 help immensely.0
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I can't do exercises that exert a heavy vertical load due to lumbar spine injuries but I can use some leg press machines that allow me to (mostly) isolate my back.
The TechnoGym plate loaded machine is my favourite. You can get really good depth on it.
The other thing that really helps my back condition is having good core strength.
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I've had lower back surgery to repair discs and have some nerve damage from the issue. I do squats, deadlifts, overhead presses - whatever I want. If you can keep all those muscles, tendons, and ligaments tight and strong that support your bones and joints, it is likely that you won't have any issues. I can tell you that for me, the stronger I got, the less pain and problems that I had.
With that said, you can also really screw yourself over if you are using bad technique. You know your problems, realize your limitations, and work really hard on developing good technique and building up all those small muscles that compound movements work to help the large muscle that people tend to focus on. Just protect yourself by warming up really good and using good technique and take the time to build the strength using good form.
This is probably going to start a debate, but I don't even use a weight belt. I'd rather use lighter weight and strengthen my core and secondary muscles than use a belt.3 -
If you don't mind me asking, what did the chiropractor suggest as the cause of the issue and what does he/she suggest as the solution?0
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if you are sitting then your ergonomics have compromised your posture... flexibility is a key component to any holistic approach to fitness and strength... I have spent hours observing office workers old and young... and you can absolutely see the damage some people have inflicted upon themselves by "freezing" themselves into the seated positions of their desk for decades... start yoga on a regular basis... focusing on stretches for your hips and lower back... it may be painful for a few weeks but eventually you will regain a more natural posture and freer mobility, and the back pain should fade0
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@GauchoMark It's great to hear that you've worked through those injuries. I'm very careful with my form, and honestly have never had pain from lifting heavy. So I agree with what you're saying. You know, I have never used a belt, either...just build up the weight slowly and warm up thoroughly every time. Perfect form is protection enough for me.
@SideSteel The cause is sitting so much of the day. I try to move a lot in spite of my desk job, but it's never enough. His solution is weekly adjustments to my back over the course of the next 6 weeks, with me icing my back twice a day for 20 minutes for the duration. The idea is that the adjustments to realign the connective tissues and things will cause temporary inflammation, and by icing it periodically I can help keep things were they are supposed to be. After a few weeks the tissues can keep themselves in place, so theoretically I wouldn't have any pain after a while.
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@GauchoMark It's great to hear that you've worked through those injuries. I'm very careful with my form, and honestly have never had pain from lifting heavy. So I agree with what you're saying. You know, I have never used a belt, either...just build up the weight slowly and warm up thoroughly every time. Perfect form is protection enough for me.
@SideSteel The cause is sitting so much of the day. I try to move a lot in spite of my desk job, but it's never enough. His solution is weekly adjustments to my back over the course of the next 6 weeks, with me icing my back twice a day for 20 minutes for the duration. The idea is that the adjustments to realign the connective tissues and things will cause temporary inflammation, and by icing it periodically I can help keep things were they are supposed to be. After a few weeks the tissues can keep themselves in place, so theoretically I wouldn't have any pain after a while.
So first of all I wish you the absolute best of luck. I would highly urge a second opinion. I'm quite speculative that "connective tissues are misaligned" is actually a legitimate diagnosis and I'm even more speculative that manual manipulations can alter tissue placement. This is one of the reasons I'd generally not recommend most chiros to begin with but that's sort of a different topic.
I'd also check out Jason Silvernail and Lorimer Moseley's material on pain if you enjoy reading about it.
(https://www.painscience.com/articles/posture.php)
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Thanks for the responses, everyone. Lots of varying opinions on this type of stuff, which I enjoy.
More background: I'm 25 years old, and have dealt with varying degrees of what I will call minor chronic back pain for years. Most of the pain is due to being an engineer which requires sitting at a desk for 9-11 hours a day, plus driving. So the problem isn't lifting, really. I went to the chiropractor because I have started feeling numbness and tingling in my limbs, plus some other inflammation-related things. My hope is that treatment can reduce inflammation, allow the tissues to heal in their proper positions, and then I will be smart about how I treat my back for the rest of my life so I don't need continued treatment.
To the lifting! My chiropractor thinks that I will have substantial improvement in the inflammation issues in 3-6 weeks. During that time, I figured I would follow his advice to a "T" and see where it got me. After that, I'd re-*kitten* and decide how to move forward.
As to getting a second opinion, I will if things don't improve in 6 weeks. My issues aren't major, but they are enough to warrant attention.
For what it's worth, I have always felt better when I'm squatting 1-2 times a week. My back loves it. So when I ask for alternatives, it's because I really want to give the chiropractor a chance to make this better. I do like to hear that lots of you have ignored the "don't lift heavy!" advice from various sources and been fine for it. It does seem that most doctors think heavy weight lifting is bad.
Also, thanks for the suggestions for the single-leg lifts. I'll start incorporating those and see how I progress.
Yep the sitting is most likely killing you. As others have said, get to a physical therapist and follow their instructions.
Did the chiro give you any home exercises to do? If they are worthwhile they will. Otherwise they are just looking at you as an annuity.
And see if you can get an adjustable workstation for your job. I have one after 30+ years of 9-11 hours of sitting plus a commute. It's a big help.
Best of luck.0 -
@SideSteel Thanks for the advice. I do love reading about this type of thing, so I'm going to check out the article you linked. For what it's worth, I'm a natural skeptic towards this type of thing to begin with and you're affirming what I already thought.
At this point I think I will continue the treatment for now, as it's very "gentle" and seems unlikely to cause a problem. The techniques are like a targeted massage, and I can feel the muscles in my back responding to the massage. So we'll see what happens. After 6 weeks I will probably cancel any further appointments and just focus on lifting with perfect form, and move as much as I can.
Not going to stop squatting, though. Hearing your comments about it helping your backs get better reminded me that squatting has actually been beneficial to my back over the years.0
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