Simple Carbs (processed sugars) = Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS)
KevinYoukillus
Posts: 206 Member
Fitness Family, please allow me to testify...
I avoided processed foods (breads, crackers, sugary drinks, etc.) for a month as part of a nutrition challenge, while also increasing my workout schedule to at least 1 hour every day as part of a body fat loss challenge. During that time, I did not experience delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), to the point of incredulousness... during one five-day stretch, I had three 2000+ calorie burn days, and was commenting to my MFP newsfeed that I thought I must have some kind of superpower, to be waking up pain free everyday.
The nutrition challenge ended, and yesterday I found myself inhaling chocolate pudding and blueberry crisp desserts as part of an 1800+ calorie lunch. I worked out as normal last night, but this morning I woke up with a noticeable overall muscle pain. The only thing that changed was my diet, that one meal, the simple carbs from the high fructose corn syrup in the desserts.
My uneducated conclusion... Sugars, especially the simple carbs found in high fructose corn syrup, contribute to DOMS!
I posed the question to my Facebook network, and got the following response from a roller derby friend who happens to be a nurse:
"I do a lot of diabetic teaching daily at work lol. Simple carbs are where diabetics tend to mess up. For most people, sugar is what they automatically think to avoid and simple carbs and processed foods are always forgotten about."
"There is a direct connection between sugar, inflammation and joint pain. Inflammation is the immune system's healthy response to restore the affected area to normal following an injury, irritation or infection. However, in response to high sugar intake, which includes simple carbohydrates, the body is flooded with insulin and stress hormones. These inundate your blood supply triggering the inflammation process which creates stress and pain on your organs and joints. The less sugar you eat, the less inflammation you will experience, and the stronger your immune system will be to protect you from infectious and degenerative diseases."
"For another perspective, in many yogurts that use high fructose corn syrup to ferment, the process creates a product called "lactic acid", which is the same thing your muscles produce after burning fuel for an x amount of time (exercising) that results in soreness and stiffness."
Thanks for reading... I'm so happy to document this experience!
I avoided processed foods (breads, crackers, sugary drinks, etc.) for a month as part of a nutrition challenge, while also increasing my workout schedule to at least 1 hour every day as part of a body fat loss challenge. During that time, I did not experience delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), to the point of incredulousness... during one five-day stretch, I had three 2000+ calorie burn days, and was commenting to my MFP newsfeed that I thought I must have some kind of superpower, to be waking up pain free everyday.
The nutrition challenge ended, and yesterday I found myself inhaling chocolate pudding and blueberry crisp desserts as part of an 1800+ calorie lunch. I worked out as normal last night, but this morning I woke up with a noticeable overall muscle pain. The only thing that changed was my diet, that one meal, the simple carbs from the high fructose corn syrup in the desserts.
My uneducated conclusion... Sugars, especially the simple carbs found in high fructose corn syrup, contribute to DOMS!
I posed the question to my Facebook network, and got the following response from a roller derby friend who happens to be a nurse:
"I do a lot of diabetic teaching daily at work lol. Simple carbs are where diabetics tend to mess up. For most people, sugar is what they automatically think to avoid and simple carbs and processed foods are always forgotten about."
"There is a direct connection between sugar, inflammation and joint pain. Inflammation is the immune system's healthy response to restore the affected area to normal following an injury, irritation or infection. However, in response to high sugar intake, which includes simple carbohydrates, the body is flooded with insulin and stress hormones. These inundate your blood supply triggering the inflammation process which creates stress and pain on your organs and joints. The less sugar you eat, the less inflammation you will experience, and the stronger your immune system will be to protect you from infectious and degenerative diseases."
"For another perspective, in many yogurts that use high fructose corn syrup to ferment, the process creates a product called "lactic acid", which is the same thing your muscles produce after burning fuel for an x amount of time (exercising) that results in soreness and stiffness."
Thanks for reading... I'm so happy to document this experience!
6
Replies
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Tagging to follow...0
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I will counter your anecdote with my own.
I incorporate processed foods into my diet and eat sugar just about every day. The only time I experience DOMS is when I drastically change my workout so that I put stress on a muscle or muscle group that I have not been regularly putting stress on.8 -
I'm curious as to what you did for a workout, and how that workout differed, if at all, from your other workouts? What jumped out at me from your post is that you ingested a large amount of carbs prior to your workout, so I am wondering if perhaps your workout was more intense than usual, contributing to the DOMS. Basically, more available quick energy -> ability to work out harder than usual -> DOMS.
But interested to read more about relation of sugar to inflammation/joint pain, if your friend provided any sources or recommended reading.3 -
Did you eat any fruit (or drink any juice) during your challenge?1
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For my anecdotal experience, I eat simple carbohydrates (like fruits and vegetables) daily. I also frequently eat processed sugars or grains. I only experience DOMS occasionally and it never seems to be linked to the length of my workouts or the number of calories I have burned -- it's more about the actual intensity of my exercise (example: I ran less than usual last Saturday, but the miles I did run were for a race where I set a PR and I did have DOMS the next morning).2
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Did your desserts actually contain HFCS? I have made the items identified, and of course would never use HFCS.
Did your friend give an explanation as to how HFCS would have a different effect than table sugar or other forms of sugar? All are equally "simple carbs." (For a diabetic I wouldn't think that a distinction between simple and complex carbs would matter either -- complex carbs being starches -- as what matters is speed at which it hits the body. Fiber and fat (which is in a lot of "treat" foods) may slow it down, which is why balancing macros tends to help and many diabetics are okay with fruit and of course veg -- sugars plus fiber.
My understanding has always been that quicker carbs are good after a workout, and I commonly eat according to this rule -- a banana or potatoes after a long workout (I often plan to have a meal right after). Maybe some white rice or a sandwich. I have not noticed an issue with DOMS doing this. (I do think it helps me feel more energetic the next day, but that could be a placebo effect.)
As for stress hormones (cortisol), I've actually read that increased cortisol is one widely accepted negative of cutting carbs.3 -
The chemical composition of HFCS is virtually identical to that of sucrose or honey, and it is metabolized by the body the exact same way as any other simple sugar.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/straight-talk-about-high-fructose-corn-syrup-what-it-is-and-what-it-aint-research-review.html/2 -
Different bodies different reactions I guess. For me personally, DOMS is associated with either doing something new or significantly increasing resistance. If I have been doing the same thing for a while I don't have DOMS. I am not big on added sugars but I eat fruit which has sugar, and I eat it daily. I also eat bread that is made with white flour. sometimes homemade and sometimes store bought. I buy (usually) not-canned, not-cured meat and fresh or frozen veg and cook from scratch. This includes starchy vegetables. I'm doing the halved-carb, doubled-veg, average protein portion diet my doctor gave me for my prediabetes.
The bottom line for my arthritis is always the barometric pressure. I track this with an app. The lower the pressure the more I hurt. And if a cold front or storms are coming through I am usually pretty screwed and have to take a day off from the gym.2 -
That's interesting - I was also recently marveling that my October workout switch up did not result in DOMS to the extent I usually see when I change things, and for me that also coincides with giving up my daily dose of chocolate, which is about the only sugar or simple carbohydrate I eat. I do not know that I would have put the two together without you sharing your own experience, I was still scratching my head over it!1
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When you cut out the processed sugars/etc, did you eat lower carb? If you did, and you then went back to eating normal/higher carb, then the DOMS could have been due to fluid retention putting more pressure on nerves.2
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I will counter your anecdote with my own.
I incorporate processed foods into my diet and eat sugar just about every day. The only time I experience DOMS is when I drastically change my workout so that I put stress on a muscle or muscle group that I have not been regularly putting stress on.
I'm similar (eating sugar daily), but my DOMS are improved if I eat adequate protein and carbs post work out.....and get enough sleep and water.1 -
cerise_noir wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I will counter your anecdote with my own.
I incorporate processed foods into my diet and eat sugar just about every day. The only time I experience DOMS is when I drastically change my workout so that I put stress on a muscle or muscle group that I have not been regularly putting stress on.
I'm similar (eating sugar daily), but my DOMS are improved if I eat adequate protein and carbs post work out.....and get enough sleep and water.
This definitely helps me, too. Though sometimes it's just unavoidable for me.
Like the day I was like, "Well, I've been doing C25K now for 30 minutes 3 times a week for 2 weeks now and barely get out of breath anymore...so naturally I can move right into a 50-minute high-impact HIIT workout with no repercussions."
There were repercussions.4 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I will counter your anecdote with my own.
I incorporate processed foods into my diet and eat sugar just about every day. The only time I experience DOMS is when I drastically change my workout so that I put stress on a muscle or muscle group that I have not been regularly putting stress on.
I'm similar (eating sugar daily), but my DOMS are improved if I eat adequate protein and carbs post work out.....and get enough sleep and water.
This definitely helps me, too. Though sometimes it's just unavoidable for me.
Like the day I was like, "Well, I've been doing C25K now for 30 minutes 3 times a week for 2 weeks now and barely get out of breath anymore...so naturally I can move right into a 50-minute high-impact HIIT workout with no repercussions."
There were repercussions.
LOL I've had issues working out consistently due to some health issues, so I went from working out 7x a week, to maybe 3 or 4. Decided to get fully back into it, and did kickboxing, zumba, and strength training on one day (which USED to be typical). I could barely walk the next day.
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It's easy to overestimate what you can do. I'm short and I tend to forget that I'm short, plus my upper body still needs more work. A friend of ours has a medical condition whereby he can't get to his feet on his own, and if he's at our house he doesn't have the special equipment so someone has to help. Well, my husband fell asleep. I figured I would pitch in and help, and let Husband snooze. Unfortunately I was only able to get the guy up to the couch arm and not all the way to his feet because he's five ten and I'm five three and I don't have enough strength in my upper body to make up for the lack of leverage. Guy weighs about 50 lb more than I do. So I parked him on the couch arm and said lemme go wake up Husband to get you to your feet. next time I am just waking up Husband. No benefit in taking two steps to do the same action. Was surprised that my attempt only worked half way. :X derp1
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I just got an email about how lactic acid is beneficial which I thought was amusing in the timing given the OP here, and then I googled it and found this, which is interesting (IMO): http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/health/nutrition/16run.html?_r=0
Lactic Acid is Not Muscle's Foe, It's Fuel:
"...Lactic acid is actually a fuel, not a caustic waste product. Muscles make it deliberately, producing it from glucose, and they burn it to obtain energy. The reason trained athletes can perform so hard and so long is because their intense training causes their muscles to adapt so they more readily and efficiently absorb lactic acid.
The notion that lactic acid was bad took hold more than a century ago, said George A. Brooks, a professor in the department of integrative biology at the University of California, Berkeley. It stuck because it seemed to make so much sense.
"It's one of the classic mistakes in the history of science," Dr. Brooks said....
Eventually, other researchers confirmed the work. And gradually, the thinking among exercise physiologists began to change.
"The evidence has continued to mount," said L. Bruce Gladden, a professor of health and human performance at Auburn University. "It became clear that it is not so simple as to say, Lactic acid is a bad thing and it causes fatigue."
As for the idea that lactic acid causes muscle soreness, Dr. Gladden said, that never made sense.
"Lactic acid will be gone from your muscles within an hour of exercise," he said. "You get sore one to three days later. The time frame is not consistent, and the mechanisms have not been found."
The understanding now is that muscle cells convert glucose or glycogen to lactic acid. The lactic acid is taken up and used as a fuel by mitochondria, the energy factories in muscle cells....
Through trial and error, coaches learned that athletic performance improved when athletes worked on endurance, running longer and longer distances, for example.
That, it turns out, increased the mass of their muscle mitochondria, letting them burn more lactic acid and allowing the muscles to work harder and longer...."2 -
https://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/doms-the-good-the-bad-and-what-it-really-means-to-your-training
To summarize, let’s just say DOMS appears to occur due to connective tissue microtrauma. It’s also worth mentioning that while most exercise can induce some DOMS, exercise with a greater emphasis on the eccentric phase (the lengthening or stretching phase) plays the most significant role in the manifestation of DOMS.2 -
I avoided processed foods (breads, crackers, sugary drinks, etc.) for a month as part of a nutrition challenge, while also increasing my workout schedule to at least 1 hour every day as part of a body fat loss challenge. During that time, I did not experience delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), to the point of incredulousness... during one five-day stretch, I had three 2000+ calorie burn days, and was commenting to my MFP newsfeed that I thought I must have some kind of superpower, to be waking up pain free everyday.
The same for me. I cut out all processed foods. No flour or sugar.. I eat mostly veggies and protein, drink a lot of water. Now when I workout, I dont get any DOMS its weird. In the past when I worked out and had fast foods or sugar bread, etc. I couldn't move the next day. My arthritis is almost non existent. It must be the reaction to processed foods that makes me have inflammation in my body. But ever since i cut out all processed foods, my body reacts differently than ever before...1 -
Processed foods are so varied I don't see how there could be a single reaction to them. It makes no sense (even setting aside the fact that "processed" sugar isn't actually different in any significant way from the sugar in honey or fruit, and that you can process wheat and make flour yourself at home).
I do think cutting sugar and/or grains can help some people, but not because processing is bad or has some kind of "inflammatory" effect in general. Technically more things are processed than you may be realizing -- including the meat most people eat unless you do it all yourself from the hunting bit on.
Anyway, as others said, I occasionally get DOMS if I change my weight routine or do something different (like run and do squats on the same day when I'm not used to that), but I don't see it as a bad thing. I've gone through phases where I cut out added sugar and grains and also where I've gone plant based for a while (this is also claimed to prevent DOMS by some), and never noticed a difference. I know I had DOMS when I was first doing no sugar and grains, but that was to be expected since I'd just started working out again.2 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I will counter your anecdote with my own.
I incorporate processed foods into my diet and eat sugar just about every day. The only time I experience DOMS is when I drastically change my workout so that I put stress on a muscle or muscle group that I have not been regularly putting stress on.
Me too.0 -
KevinYoukillus wrote: »Fitness Family, please allow me to testify...
I avoided processed foods (breads, crackers, sugary drinks, etc.) for a month as part of a nutrition challenge, while also increasing my workout schedule to at least 1 hour every day as part of a body fat loss challenge. During that time, I did not experience delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), to the point of incredulousness... during one five-day stretch, I had three 2000+ calorie burn days, and was commenting to my MFP newsfeed that I thought I must have some kind of superpower, to be waking up pain free everyday.
The nutrition challenge ended, and yesterday I found myself inhaling chocolate pudding and blueberry crisp desserts as part of an 1800+ calorie lunch. I worked out as normal last night, but this morning I woke up with a noticeable overall muscle pain. The only thing that changed was my diet, that one meal, the simple carbs from the high fructose corn syrup in the desserts.
My uneducated conclusion... Sugars, especially the simple carbs found in high fructose corn syrup, contribute to DOMS!
I posed the question to my Facebook network, and got the following response from a roller derby friend who happens to be a nurse:
"I do a lot of diabetic teaching daily at work lol. Simple carbs are where diabetics tend to mess up. For most people, sugar is what they automatically think to avoid and simple carbs and processed foods are always forgotten about."
"There is a direct connection between sugar, inflammation and joint pain. Inflammation is the immune system's healthy response to restore the affected area to normal following an injury, irritation or infection. However, in response to high sugar intake, which includes simple carbohydrates, the body is flooded with insulin and stress hormones. These inundate your blood supply triggering the inflammation process which creates stress and pain on your organs and joints. The less sugar you eat, the less inflammation you will experience, and the stronger your immune system will be to protect you from infectious and degenerative diseases."
"For another perspective, in many yogurts that use high fructose corn syrup to ferment, the process creates a product called "lactic acid", which is the same thing your muscles produce after burning fuel for an x amount of time (exercising) that results in soreness and stiffness."
Thanks for reading... I'm so happy to document this experience!
If a person does not have a medical condition, then sugar will not cause join pain or inflammation. It might occur in some of those with diabetes, but if you don't have that, then it's a nonissue.
DOMS is a result of training stimuli and very individualistic. I dont' get DOMS in my upper body but I get it bad in my lower body... no matter how well trained I am. If anything, faster reacting sugars should support replenishment of glycogen and facilitate muscle recovery.3 -
It's possible but I wouldn't say it's very likely that your DOMS was exacerbated, but certainly not caused, by simple carbs. There really isn't much research on the cause of DOMS let alone how it relates to diet, and although many lifters do seem to notice reduced DOMS when they try certain protein supplements but this could just be a placebo.
The lactic acid theory of DOMS, to my understanding, is not accepted by most just as lactic acid does not cause muscle burn during exercise -- that's caused by the build up of H- ions.0 -
Is it simply not possible that you experienced less DOMS as a result of higher protein intake and continued exercise?
DOMS is not the same as normal "soreness" (aka acute muscle soreness), and OP's initial post seems to confuse the two. DOMS is significantly reduced with continued exercise anyways, regardless of the foods you are consuming.
"After performing an unaccustomed eccentric exercise and exhibiting severe soreness, the muscle rapidly adapts to reduce further damage from the same exercise. This is called the "repeated-bout effect".
As a result of this effect, not only is the soreness reduced, but other indicators of muscle damage, such as swelling, reduced strength and reduced range of motion, are also more quickly recovered from. The effect is mostly, but not wholly, specific to the exercised muscle: experiments have shown that some of the protective effect is also conferred on other muscles."
You can read more here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12641640
In essence, what i'm saying is, it is very likely you would have seen a reduction in DOMS regardless of the foods you've eaten simply because DOMS is a response that occurs to try and rapidly heal the body. It's the first response in G.A.S. regardless. DOMS is only experienced in the Alarm reaction phase.
Now if we're talking about a reduction in acute muscle soreness, it's important to note that an increase in fat and protein intake may help with soreness, regardless of carb intake. You might some sort of intolerance which is causing inflammation. If you're experiencing something like arthritis for example, an increase of fat can help soothe symptoms, etc. I could go on, but it's important we make the distinction for an appropriate discussion.1 -
So how much did your protein intake increase?0
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I'm sorry I can't really answer specific questions, I wasn't keeping very close records, and I'm no nutritionist... but yesterday I went back to the same cafeteria, ate another 1800+ calories, but this time avoided the dessert tray with the chocolate pudding and blueberry crisp. Yesterday evening I worked chest as hard as I ever have with my trainer, even set some new personal bests! This morning I woke up with virtually zero pain, some tightness, but nothing I would call soreness.
Obviously everyone's body is different, but I am confident in my own personal experience. My goal is to work out 6-7 times a week, and if avoiding sugar is going to help me avoid muscle soreness, then I am simply going to avoid sugar.
Again, thanks for reading and allowing me to testify my own personal experience.3 -
KevinYoukillus wrote: »I'm sorry I can't really answer specific questions, I wasn't keeping very close records, and I'm no nutritionist... but yesterday I went back to the same cafeteria, ate another 1800+ calories, but this time avoided the dessert tray with the chocolate pudding and blueberry crisp. Yesterday evening I worked chest as hard as I ever have with my trainer, even set some new personal bests! This morning I woke up with virtually zero pain, some tightness, but nothing I would call soreness.
Obviously everyone's body is different, but I am confident in my own personal experience. My goal is to work out 6-7 times a week, and if avoiding sugar is going to help me avoid muscle soreness, then I am simply going to avoid sugar.
Again, thanks for reading and allowing me to testify my own personal experience.
Its actually ver common to hit PRs in exercise after binging on high sugar items. Very common with body builders. And considering digestive times, your prior days probably had greater influence than you think.0 -
KevinYoukillus wrote: »Fitness Family, please allow me to testify...
I avoided processed foods (breads, crackers, sugary drinks, etc.) for a month as part of a nutrition challenge, while also increasing my workout schedule to at least 1 hour every day as part of a body fat loss challenge. During that time, I did not experience delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), to the point of incredulousness... during one five-day stretch, I had three 2000+ calorie burn days, and was commenting to my MFP newsfeed that I thought I must have some kind of superpower, to be waking up pain free everyday.
The nutrition challenge ended, and yesterday I found myself inhaling chocolate pudding and blueberry crisp desserts as part of an 1800+ calorie lunch. I worked out as normal last night, but this morning I woke up with a noticeable overall muscle pain. The only thing that changed was my diet, that one meal, the simple carbs from the high fructose corn syrup in the desserts.
My uneducated conclusion... Sugars, especially the simple carbs found in high fructose corn syrup, contribute to DOMS!
I posed the question to my Facebook network, and got the following response from a roller derby friend who happens to be a nurse:
"I do a lot of diabetic teaching daily at work lol. Simple carbs are where diabetics tend to mess up. For most people, sugar is what they automatically think to avoid and simple carbs and processed foods are always forgotten about."
"There is a direct connection between sugar, inflammation and joint pain. Inflammation is the immune system's healthy response to restore the affected area to normal following an injury, irritation or infection. However, in response to high sugar intake, which includes simple carbohydrates, the body is flooded with insulin and stress hormones. These inundate your blood supply triggering the inflammation process which creates stress and pain on your organs and joints. The less sugar you eat, the less inflammation you will experience, and the stronger your immune system will be to protect you from infectious and degenerative diseases."
"For another perspective, in many yogurts that use high fructose corn syrup to ferment, the process creates a product called "lactic acid", which is the same thing your muscles produce after burning fuel for an x amount of time (exercising) that results in soreness and stiffness."
Thanks for reading... I'm so happy to document this experience!
OMG you have just given me the will to combat my sugar cravings! My DOMS is so painful every time I work out and I couldn’t understand why. I’ve also been craving sugar like mad due to SAD this winter. Now I have a very good reason to resist those cravings. Thank you!
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