Calorie Counting FOREVER.
Replies
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I've seen pictures and actual tv shows specifically talking about the sizes of American restaurant/take out meals, they are huge, and cheap too!4
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FWP FTW0
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I certainly need to make conscious decisions about my food choices and activity level. I've lost 148 and I haven't logged since 25 pounds lost, so I don't necessarily need to actively count or log, but I need to stick with my predetermined plan. I do not want to ride the scooter if I don't have to. I made a conscious decision before my first meeting with my trainer that I would need to make major changes and they would need to be for the rest of my life. Otherwise, I would have other restrictions to live with related to future medical conditions, etc. The choice is easy.3
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I forgot to answer the OP. At least once a week i say I'm going to quit logging, but I never do.. I may one day give it up or just log loosely every now and then.
One thing i can't see myself stopping is weighing my food, portion creep slips in too easily.2 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
Who says I'm focused on every calorie point and don't know how to fit in large meals?
Why are you moving the goalposts?
Why are you assuming things about me?
What point are you making?1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
Who says I'm focused on every calorie point and don't know how to fit in large meals?
Why are you moving the goalposts?
Why are you assuming things about me?
What point are you making?
Sorry, not about you at all. You are just a representative of the argument for portion minding that I was debating which you chose to jump in.
My point...don't bother with minding the portion (very tough for most dieters here to grasp). Focus our energy on the discipline, the strategies for cutbacks. I argue that it's much easier and productive that way.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Our of curiosity OP when you are trying to lose weight do you modify your diet away from what you would normally eat or do you just moderate your portions? If losing weight is not only calorie counting but also changing your diet to something you wouldn't normally eat then that could go a long way to explain problems with maintenance. Not that I am an expert on maintaining, I have issues with that myself.
@Aaron_K123 I have done it all. Literally, name a diet plan and I have probably tried it. But regardless of "Diet" I only get results if I am actually counting calories.1 -
I've been in maintenance since April after losing 90 lbs. I definitely have continued logging and will probably always need to, but probably not every day and every meal. Sometimes I will go a week or two without logging. Then I usually end up gaining and start logging again to get back on track. But the two week break is nice for my mental health. For whatever reason, logging just really works for me and I've accepted it will just be part of my life. I don't mind it.5
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Christine_72 wrote: »I've seen pictures and actual tv shows specifically talking about the sizes of American restaurant/take out meals, they are huge, and cheap too!
We're a genuine land of plenty, fo sho!1 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
You're wrong about portion sizes, even in Europe they verge on the large in many places. I've recently spent a week in the States and everywhere serves much larger portion sizes than what you should be eating (if not calorie counting)
And I say this as a volume eater (I am careful to pad out meals with low calorie volume foods cos I like to eat lots)
Within a week in the US my eyes and stomach and appetite adjusted to those portion sizes being "normal" and I'm struggling now to control my appetite
It isn't a "normal" portion size in terms of calorie intake
You're right about it not mattering when you eat your calories though3 -
I'm year 3 of calorie counting
I'm not stopping
Because when I stop my concept of normal portion and foods across time increases
I can't do it without the numbers
And the logging is a habit I would find easy to break TBH
But why after finally being successful, after mainting a body I love and am confident in for 2 years would I return to 30 years of yo yo dieting when I have found that balance
And I eat loads
And I socialise
And by logging it all works
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I'm year 3 of calorie counting
I'm not stopping
Because when I stop my concept of normal portion and foods across time increases
I can't do it without the numbers
And the logging is a habit I would find easy to break TBH
But why after finally being successful, after mainting a body I love and am confident in for 2 years would I return to 30 years of yo yo dieting when I have found that balance
And I eat loads
And I socialise
And by logging it all works
^^This.
I'm 3+ years into logging as well. Before that, I had close to 40 years of unsuccessful attempts to lose weight. Sure, occasionally I would manage to lose a significant amount of weight, but never managed to keep it off for even a year.
I don't find logging especially difficult (although the deteriorating MFP database and the disappearance of many USDA nutrient database-based entries doesn't help), and it gives me complete flexibility. I can eat whatever foods I want, in virtually any amount I want, and know what adjustments I need to make to account for any excesses. I eat out at non-chain restaurants. I eat food prepared by friends and family, and I don't ask them for recipes (unless I actually want the recipe because it's so good). I don't take my food scales with me to restaurants or other people's homes. Three years of logging the food I prepare at home has given me good tools for estimating.
I don't have any plans to stop logging, although I don't worry on the rare occasions that I don't log (due to lack of Internet access, or wanting to spend all my time visiting with people on brief trips).
But if people have found other ways that work well for them, that's great.2 -
I've been counting for 5 years. I enjoy it. I like knowing what and how much I'm eating. I embrace accountability.
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Every time I stop counting, I gain weight. Like 20 lbs. Nope. I gotta keep counting. Forever.4
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I hate thinking about food any more than necessary or making that a focus in my life. That's probably why I love intermittent fasting. I eat a small lunch on my own and share a family dinner.
I know a lot of people have to calorie count and don't find it a bother. Personally I prefer not to if I don't have to. Everyone has to find their way. MFP is a wonderful tool, however I plan to wean myself off eventually. I hope everyone gets to goal! 2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Exactly. Maybe I'm weird in saying I don't wish to rely on something other than myself to stay fit for the rest of my life. Everyone's different I suppose. I just don't understand the reasoning in not wanting to forge a healthy and sustainable relationship with food on your own.
It seems weird to me too. Which is why I didn't weigh and measure while losing. I wanted a smoother transition into maintenance. But, different strokes.
I am doing this also..didn't want to mention it before, because it goes against what most do on here. But I'm not counting calories at all …. when I read these four facts on the maintenance thread, I decided not to count any longer but adhere to the four things researches have found that people who lost weight and kept it off do.
1. workout one hour a day
2. watch less than 10 hours of t.v. a week
3. adopt a healthy lifestyle
4. eat breakfast
Many on the maintenance thread chimed in saying they do all of these things.. a few said they didn't eat breakfast but did the rest.
So? I told myself.. I'm going to stop the obsessing over counting calories.. and just simply do these things.
so far it is working… and the stress of counting calories and thinking about food constantly is gone. I'm basically functioning like I'm at maintenance as I lose.2 -
not_my_first_rodeo wrote: »I'm in the same boat. Sometimes it depresses me. Sometimes I'm okay with it. But I've come to that same conclusion myself.
Ditto.0 -
elisa123gal wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Exactly. Maybe I'm weird in saying I don't wish to rely on something other than myself to stay fit for the rest of my life. Everyone's different I suppose. I just don't understand the reasoning in not wanting to forge a healthy and sustainable relationship with food on your own.
It seems weird to me too. Which is why I didn't weigh and measure while losing. I wanted a smoother transition into maintenance. But, different strokes.
I am doing this also..didn't want to mention it before, because it goes against what most do on here. But I'm not counting calories at all …. when I read these four facts on the maintenance thread, I decided not to count any longer but adhere to the four things researches have found that people who lost weight and kept it off do.
1. workout one hour a day
2. watch less than 10 hours of t.v. a week
3. adopt a healthy lifestyle
4. eat breakfast
Many on the maintenance thread chimed in saying they do all of these things.. a few said they didn't eat breakfast but did the rest.
So? I told myself.. I'm going to stop the obsessing over counting calories.. and just simply do these things.
so far it is working… and the stress of counting calories and thinking about food constantly is gone. I'm basically functioning like I'm at maintenance as I lose.
Isn't it great? I eat at a level suitable for maintenance for the weight that I want to be. Then I don't have to change anything to stay at that weight because I've been implementing the permanent lifestyle changes even before I get to goal. Weight management really does have to be sustainable for the long term.2 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
You're wrong about portion sizes, even in Europe they verge on the large in many places. I've recently spent a week in the States and everywhere serves much larger portion sizes than what you should be eating (if not calorie counting)
And I say this as a volume eater (I am careful to pad out meals with low calorie volume foods cos I like to eat lots)
Within a week in the US my eyes and stomach and appetite adjusted to those portion sizes being "normal" and I'm struggling now to control my appetite
It isn't a "normal" portion size in terms of calorie intake
You're right about it not mattering when you eat your calories though
When I was on vacation in Canada, I had to have them pack up the leftovers in a restaurant because i couldn't finish it. Never happened before or since and that was when I was still overweight.0 -
You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
About 15 years ago, I spent a little over a year losing about a 100 lbs. I maintained a journal for about 2 months, decided I didn't need it, and then in about 2 years was back where I started.
I can measure out things by hand for baking. I know exactly how much a 1/4 teaspoon of salt is, for example. I can pour out exactly 1 tablespoon of oil without measuring. But that's where it ends. I overestimate. I can't add all the calories in my head (I have to record all my debit card transactions immediately as they happen too). When it comes to portion control, I tend to listen to that voice in my head that says, "go ahead, it's only a little more."
So this calorie counting and logging thing is going to have to be for life. Unless I win the lottery and suddenly can afford a personal chef who will do all of that for me.4 -
endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
You're wrong about portion sizes, even in Europe they verge on the large in many places. I've recently spent a week in the States and everywhere serves much larger portion sizes than what you should be eating (if not calorie counting)
And I say this as a volume eater (I am careful to pad out meals with low calorie volume foods cos I like to eat lots)
Within a week in the US my eyes and stomach and appetite adjusted to those portion sizes being "normal" and I'm struggling now to control my appetite
It isn't a "normal" portion size in terms of calorie intake
You're right about it not mattering when you eat your calories though
The problem is that people just get so used to seeing overly large portions that they think that they are actually normal portions.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
You're wrong about portion sizes, even in Europe they verge on the large in many places. I've recently spent a week in the States and everywhere serves much larger portion sizes than what you should be eating (if not calorie counting)
And I say this as a volume eater (I am careful to pad out meals with low calorie volume foods cos I like to eat lots)
Within a week in the US my eyes and stomach and appetite adjusted to those portion sizes being "normal" and I'm struggling now to control my appetite
It isn't a "normal" portion size in terms of calorie intake
You're right about it not mattering when you eat your calories though
When I was on vacation in Canada, I had to have them pack up the leftovers in a restaurant because i couldn't finish it. Never happened before or since and that was when I was still overweight.
Which restaurant was that? Do you remember?1 -
I'm in the same boat OP but I don't mind that much, it's better than the alternative.2
-
Christine_72 wrote: »I've seen pictures and actual tv shows specifically talking about the sizes of American restaurant/take out meals, they are huge, and cheap too!
They vary. Finer dining restaurants (other than steak places) often have more normal portions (not unlike what I've seen in other countries), although they are still higher cal than something you'd make at home, of course, and it's harder to be as aware of that.
Doesn't sound like EndlessFall is talking about the kinds of restaurants that have the more normal portions, though, although if he's talking fast food of course it's easy to know what you are ordering (when I go to Chipotle I order something that has no more calories than any other lunch I might have). Instead, seems like he's assuming that if you overeat at a restaurant meal you will naturally (or can choose to) eat less leading up to it or after. It's true that if you realize you ate a ton of calories you can choose to cut back, and something people might do if aware that the servings are too large (indeed, this relates to portion control -- if you don't know the portions are large you wouldn't), to go back to Need2's point about portion control -- but not something people will do if they don't know that. And personally I don't enjoy eating the amounts some restaurants give you, so I prefer to notice that in advance, choose to eat half only, and not end up mindlessly consuming calories because I don't think about it and am focused on talking to friends or whatever and just eat what's on my plate. This is easy to do if one is aware and acts mindfully, but it's easy to stop doing if one decides that one no longer has to pay attention (or chooses, for some reason, not to learn about portion size)*.
I suppose it depends on size and all that, but I found it really easy to gain weight just by getting sloppy with portion size and my use of high cal ingredients (oil, cheese, butter). I don't think I need to measure and log to avoid that, but I do need to be mindful -- intuitive eating as in going by feel, not mind and paying attention, won't work for me. This is not, IMO, because of an unhealthy relationship with food, but because humans historically did need to eat when food is available, so most of us still have that skill (which makes it easy to overeat when food is consistently and always easily available).
*EndlessFall, are you assuming that by portion control or understanding portions people mean that they always eat precisely 4 oz of meat or some such? Because that's not what I understand the term to mean. I understand it to mean an awareness of about how much would be in a normal, at maintenance, meal for you, given the other components, and therefore if a meal has quite a few more calories than your normal meal (allowing you to not eat all of it or adjust at other meals). I use portion control and mindfulness in maintenance so far, but that doesn't mean my dinners are always the same number of calories -- it varies quite a bit. So I think you are arguing against a strawman. Knowing that if I go out to eat (as I am tonight) we are talking a lot more calories than my usual dinner allows me to adjust.0 -
not_my_first_rodeo wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
About 15 years ago, I spent a little over a year losing about a 100 lbs. I maintained a journal for about 2 months, decided I didn't need it, and then in about 2 years was back where I started.
I can measure out things by hand for baking. I know exactly how much a 1/4 teaspoon of salt is, for example. I can pour out exactly 1 tablespoon of oil without measuring. But that's where it ends. I overestimate. I can't add all the calories in my head (I have to record all my debit card transactions immediately as they happen too). When it comes to portion control, I tend to listen to that voice in my head that says, "go ahead, it's only a little more."
So this calorie counting and logging thing is going to have to be for life. Unless I win the lottery and suddenly can afford a personal chef who will do all of that for me.
I'm not disputing whether you need to log forever or not. That's a personal decision. But if you were gaining weight for 2 years without making the decision to nip it in the bud, there was more at play than just not measuring.1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
You're wrong about portion sizes, even in Europe they verge on the large in many places. I've recently spent a week in the States and everywhere serves much larger portion sizes than what you should be eating (if not calorie counting)
And I say this as a volume eater (I am careful to pad out meals with low calorie volume foods cos I like to eat lots)
Within a week in the US my eyes and stomach and appetite adjusted to those portion sizes being "normal" and I'm struggling now to control my appetite
It isn't a "normal" portion size in terms of calorie intake
You're right about it not mattering when you eat your calories though
When I was on vacation in Canada, I had to have them pack up the leftovers in a restaurant because i couldn't finish it. Never happened before or since and that was when I was still overweight.
Which restaurant was that? Do you remember?
Smitty's or something like that? It was a pancake breakfast thing, with canadian ham and whatnot.0 -
You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
The problem with blanket statements like this one is -- they're blanket statements, and people are different. Some will not have to count calories forever, some will.3 -
I'm the same way but I don't think it's so horrible. That's like saying, "Oh, I'll never be able to have a checking account without tracking my expenses!" Phooey, your calories going in and being burned are just as OR MORE important than the money going in and out of your account.
^^This.
I have atrial fibrillation, and was told by my cardiologist I'd have to go on blood thinners for the rest of my life. That has dietary consequences. I was horrified by this at first -- but realizing that the alternative was death or becoming a vegetable due to strokes, it seemed like a small price to pay.
Ditto for counting calories. For me at least the stakes are too high, and as one person above said, it's not paying attention that has gotten me into trouble in the past (including the many times I've lost weight only put it right back on again). Some people do well with counting calories, some do well with intuitive eating or mindful eating, some do well with cognitive behavioral approaches. Find what works for you, and stick with it.
And yes, I know there are alternatives to coumadin and its dietary restrictions. Two doctors have told me that they work great, but if you have a medical crisis it can be very difficult for them to deal with bleeding because the alternatives can't be "turned off" by intravenous vitamin K like coumadin can. They don't tell you that in the ads for coumadin alternatives on the television.1 -
I'm coming up on my third year of tracking For me, it's not something I mind doing and it helps me focus on what I am eating. There are days I blast past my goal and on vacations/holidays, I just quick add some absurd number of calories and let it go... It's really about finding out what works for you... 1
-
stevencloser wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »You will NOT be forced to count calories for the rest of your life. Once you are at your goal weight. You will just count calories for a couple months to learn what your body will need to maintain, then it should be easy
Just like any other diet some will eventually learn proper portion control without the tool and some will not. The reason most people regain is that they quit whatever they were doing when they lost weight. That's why it's so important to find a method of weight loss that is comfortable enough to be sustainable long term, or will at least give you the knowledge to proceed without it.
Since you and another mfp veteran Aaron have mentioned "proper portion" , I also feel the need to chime in that the "skill" to identify "proper portion" or accurate control is really unnecessary, if not time wasting and futile, per my experience.
Generally, for outside, unless you order a second meal -- who does that --, most restaurants don't serve obscenely big portions. So no accidentally walking into a calorie bomb that the body cannot handle. Or at home I doubt if people can't tell between a very full plate and a good size plate that is in healthy range.
My point here is the difference in portion size that we cannot tell does not significantly contribute to our weight problem. Our bodies and actions can easily manage this fluctuation.
What significantly contributes to most people's wt problem is the consistent over eating behavior. More specifically, it's their lack of discipline to cut back when they have to and they know that time. It's not their lack of portion assessment.
Anecdotally, in my counting days I (mistakenly) also thought that I needed to learn the "portion" skill. Soon I realized it was unnecessarily difficult and suffocatingly restrictive.
It's 10x easier and less energy to focus on developing discipline to identify when it is OK and cut back. Our bodies are very much built for handling fluctuation, much bigger than our perception could do with portion assessment.
I think most of my success comes from knowing where to focus my effort.
I don't know what restaurants you've been going to, but many many restaurants do indeed serve very large portions.
I'm thinking of the size of steaks served, serving sizes of pasta... things like that. They are huge.
For you to not think they're overly large? You must be a very, very tall man with a large frame whose normal portions are on the large side.
A palm sized piece of meat is something I don't recall seeing in any restaurant I've been in for a very, very long time. Don't even get me started on the size of a baked potato that comes with the average meal.
There are a few restaurants that give you options to order a very large steak but they also have options for very small steaks. A few months ago I went to a fine diner and ordered the largest 32 oz steak. I had to bring half home for next day, but it hardly did any damage to my diet that week.
I eat out a lot at casual places like Chipotle, Rubio, Carl Jr, privately owned restaurants and I never see any option that a healthy adult man couldn't finish.
However, the point here is if you manage your meals well, be a little disciplined with cutbacks, it makes no different whether you eat a 1500 cal Carl Jr meal or a 900 cal BajaFresh bowl. While you and others like yourself are concerned with every calorie point, I'm focused on cutbacks with other meals. Our bodies don't care that you eat 1500 calories in one meal and then 200 calories (a small sandwich) the next meal, or however less until the excess is gone; or even so less that it goes into deficit level. That's how weight is lost.
So, the issue is not the portion assessment or tight control. The issue is whether you are disciplined with cutbacks when needed.
You're wrong about portion sizes, even in Europe they verge on the large in many places. I've recently spent a week in the States and everywhere serves much larger portion sizes than what you should be eating (if not calorie counting)
And I say this as a volume eater (I am careful to pad out meals with low calorie volume foods cos I like to eat lots)
Within a week in the US my eyes and stomach and appetite adjusted to those portion sizes being "normal" and I'm struggling now to control my appetite
It isn't a "normal" portion size in terms of calorie intake
You're right about it not mattering when you eat your calories though
When I was on vacation in Canada, I had to have them pack up the leftovers in a restaurant because i couldn't finish it. Never happened before or since and that was when I was still overweight.
Which restaurant was that? Do you remember?
Smitty's or something like that? It was a pancake breakfast thing, with canadian ham and whatnot.
Yeah, Smitty's is basically our version of the IHOP. Actually, you mean Canadian bacon btw, which is back bacon or pea meal bacon here, and a more ham like bacon. Very good stuff!0
This discussion has been closed.
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