Burn More Fat!
Replies
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This is an interesting conversation.
@LaMartian, do you have some sources regarding what you write about in your latest response? I'd like to read up on this.
Absolutely. All my information is coming directly from my university's Anatomy & Physiology BIO 141 text book.
Anatomy & Physiology: An Integrative Approach; McKinley/O'Loughlin/Bidle: Anatomy & Physiology: An Integrative Approach, 2e
I would like specific sources, as in peer reviewed articles for your claims, please.
University books don't always have accurate information, and the book and information therein is often outdated as well.
I posted a specific source. You can compare it by finding others, if you like, though. The book only came out in 2014, so it's not incredibly likely the chemistry of how a muscle eats is outdated. I can post the list of peer reviewers if you like, but it's three pages long.
I'm not asking for something three pages long, but a few sources for your claims regarding what burns fat the quickest. A calorie deficit trumps no matter your chosen exercise, or none at all.
The onus to provide peer reviewed articles is on the person who makes the claim.
Also I did look into this, btw, before I replied to you. There's no citation list for specific chapters or sections so it's hard to say who added all that to the part I referenced. I have the main authors and then the reviewers list. It might be in the physical copy of the book, which I have at home, but here at work I just have the ebook on McGraw-Hill's web site.0 -
One thing to keep in mind, our bodies have multiple energy systems that have to be considered when discussing new body fat loss and the body will switch between fat oxidation and carbohydrate oxidation based on activity level. So using more fat reserves and less glycogen intra-workout, then your body will replenish more fat reserves.
Side note, looking a isocaloric studies where they compare LISS vs resistance training, greater fat loss occurs in the latter.0 -
Well, that said, I'll probably still use LISS as I have before - to give myself caloric room to kill a pint of Ben & Jerry's from time to time and not feel guilty about it (key words there)1
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elisa123gal wrote: »I've always had great success doing one hour of moderate cardio on the elliptical to burn fat. I learned that long ago from a diet... The Six Week Body Makeover.. which worked super well for me.
According to what I learned... you don't go into the fat burning mode until 20 or 25 minutes into cardio.. So. .I stay on for a full hour to burn as much fat as i can. I've never done the circuit training.. and bursts of faster cardio mixed with slow like some do now. I stick with this. it works.
I've heard a lot of critics of this method.. but i'm not going to reinvent the wheel.
@elisa123gal
Actually you don't have modes like you describe. For the vast amount of time you are exercising you are using a mixture of fuels.
Remember you are burning fat before you even start to exercise.
The proportions of fuel substrate change with intensity rather than duration to the greater degree.1 -
elisa123gal wrote: »I've always had great success doing one hour of moderate cardio on the elliptical to burn fat. I learned that long ago from a diet... The Six Week Body Makeover.. which worked super well for me.
According to what I learned... you don't go into the fat burning mode until 20 or 25 minutes into cardio.. So. .I stay on for a full hour to burn as much fat as i can. I've never done the circuit training.. and bursts of faster cardio mixed with slow like some do now. I stick with this. it works.
I've heard a lot of critics of this method.. but i'm not going to reinvent the wheel.
@elisa123gal
Actually you don't have modes like you describe. For the vast amount of time you are exercising you are using a mixture of fuels.
Remember you are burning fat before you even start to exercise.
The proportions of fuel substrate change with intensity rather than duration to the greater degree.
Okay this one I do really want to discuss because I think I just learned the exact opposite in class, and I'd like to see if it's another "no, it's just that _______" like we just had.0 -
Here's a direct quote:
"Figure 10.19 Utilization of Immediate, Short-Term, and Long-Term Energy Sources.
The intensity and duration of an activity are important factors in energy utilization. For short sprints, the available ATP and the ATP made available through phosphate transfer are primarily used, whereas for longer runs, glycolysis is used initially but will be replaced by aerobic cellular respiration.
When an individual participates in a 50-meter sprint, an event that may take 5 to 6 seconds, ATP is supplied primarily by available ATP and phosphate transfer. In a longer sprint of 400 meters, an event that may take 50 to 60 seconds, ATP is supplied initially by the ATP and phosphate transfer and then primarily by glycolysis. Finally, in a 1500-meter run, an event that may take 5 to 6 minutes, ATP is supplied by all three means, but primarily by aerobic processes after about the first minute. Keep in mind, however, that there is overlap between the three different energy sources.
Intense exercise that is sustained longer than approximately 1 minute is dependent upon the body’s ability to deliver sufficient oxygen through the cardiovascular and respiratory systems. One consequence of participating in aerobic exercise (defined as a sustained exercise of moderate intensity that involves raising the heart rate above the baseline) is that it produces changes within both the respiratory and cardiovascular systems that enhance oxygen delivery, thus allowing an individual to exercise both at greater levels of intensity and for longer periods of time."
p. 3520 -
Looks like everyone's done here. Ah well. Off I go. Next up is fast and slow twitch fibers followed by oxidative and glycolytic fibers.0
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elisa123gal wrote: »I've always had great success doing one hour of moderate cardio on the elliptical to burn fat. I learned that long ago from a diet... The Six Week Body Makeover.. which worked super well for me.
According to what I learned... you don't go into the fat burning mode until 20 or 25 minutes into cardio.. So. .I stay on for a full hour to burn as much fat as i can. I've never done the circuit training.. and bursts of faster cardio mixed with slow like some do now. I stick with this. it works.
I've heard a lot of critics of this method.. but i'm not going to reinvent the wheel.
@elisa123gal
Actually you don't have modes like you describe. For the vast amount of time you are exercising you are using a mixture of fuels.
Remember you are burning fat before you even start to exercise.
The proportions of fuel substrate change with intensity rather than duration to the greater degree.
Okay this one I do really want to discuss because I think I just learned the exact opposite in class, and I'd like to see if it's another "no, it's just that _______" like we just had.
The thing to remember is that when you are exercising you aren't just using fuel with one particular set of muscles - your body is still using fuel for all its metabolic processes.
So when you are hooked up to a gas analyser in a sport science lab (for a VO2 max test for example) and start exercising gently the larger proportion of your fuel used (by your entire body remember) is from fat. As exercise intensity increases the proportion of carbs used for fuel ramps up and fat proportion decreases. For me with a HR range of 48 - 176 the 50/50 point of equal fat/carb use occurred at c.130bpm
Not particularly useful information for most people but as I cycle a lot it's (moderately!) interesting that my best long distance, multi hour pace HR tends to be about 135-140.
The other extreme is I do a 30 second max power test on a power meter equipped trainer and my power output tails off quite dramatically after 10 seconds - which fits your ATP model.0 -
So when you say "carbs" I assume we're talking about glycogen stores, then, rather than triglycerides?
edit: Well, no, nevermind, since glycogen stores can be replenished using triglycerides.0 -
i was going to make popcorn only it seems like the fight is already over.
also: butter. kind of tactless under the circumstances.0 -
I know I'm late to this, but some of us work for a living
(kidding, kidding)
The problem with taking information verbatim from textbooks is that you can make inaccurate generalizations if you are unfamiliar with the practical research on the subject.
And it's not just students--a lot people who work in this field make the same mistake.
The text cited earlier correctly describes the utilization of energy sources during exercise, however, it is inaccurate to take that information and draw conclusions about exercise "fat burning" and fat loss.
The body constantly uses a mix of fuel substrates--both at rest and during exercise. Depending mostly on intensity, there can be a shift towards a higher percentage of carbohydrate or triglycerides used as fuel.
It is true that, during lower intensity, longer-duration exercise, the body will utilize a higher percentage of fuel from fat. This can also occur during fasted cardio, and one can increase fat utilzation during exercise with training.
On paper, this looks like a great idea. 25 years ago, a guy name Covert Baily made some nice bank publicizing long, slow, "fat burning" exercise. However, these hypotheses always have to be tested, and this one has not held up to scrutiny.
Studies that have looked at 24 hr fat oxidation have found that there is no difference in overall fat oxidation between those who burned a higher percentage of fat during exercise and those who didn't. Those who burned more fat during exercise burned less the rest of the day and vice versa (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2885974/)
Basically, the "fat burning" adaptations occur to improve exercise performance, not to change body composition.
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I know I'm late to this, but some of us work for a living (kidding, kidding)
The problem with taking information verbatim from textbooks is that you can make inaccurate generalizations if you are unfamiliar with the practical research on the subject.
And it's not just students--a lot people who work in this field make the same mistake.
The text cited earlier correctly describes the utilization of energy sources during exercise, however, it is inaccurate to take that information and draw conclusions about exercise "fat burning" and fat loss.
The body constantly uses a mix of fuel substrates--both at rest and during exercise. Depending mostly on intensity, there can be a shift towards a higher percentage of carbohydrate or triglycerides used as fuel.
It is true that, during lower intensity, longer-duration exercise, the body will utilize a higher percentage of fuel from fat. This can also occur during fasted cardio, and one can increase fat utilzation during exercise with training.
On paper, this looks like a great idea. 25 years ago, a guy name Covert Baily made some nice bank publicizing long, slow, "fat burning" exercise. However, these hypotheses always have to be tested, and this one has not held up to scrutiny.
Studies that have looked at 24 hr fat oxidation have found that there is no difference in overall fat oxidation between those who burned a higher percentage of fat during exercise and those who didn't. Those who burned more fat during exercise burned less the rest of the day and vice versa (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2885974/)
Basically, the "fat burning" adaptations occur to improve exercise performance, not to change body composition.
Great reply as usual.1
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