Sub 10% BF and eating disorders
49DegreesNorth
Posts: 31 Member
Am I on the road to having an eating disorder? 
You see, the most common question I get, in particular from overweight people, is "What do you eat? What is your diet?", hoping I might have some kind of magic nutrition plan, tasty and delicious, that can help them achieve the body they wish.
Even if it means sounding like a d**k, my response is : what is your goal and most of all how far are you willing to go to reach it?
Unless you are genetically gifted, and I assume they are not if they're asking me about losing weight, for me achieving a six-pack and sub 10%bf and, even more, maintaining it, was a trip to nutrition hell.
I put on fat very easily, and have a hard time losing.
In my case, getting low BF, meant (means) constant hunger, it meant (still means) being mocked by my friends while they are going through chicken wings and beer and I am having a grilled chicken salad, barely any condiment, with a unsweetened ice tea.
It means drinking as much water as I can to try not to feel hunger and going to the bathroom 10 times at night.
It means forgetting about that multigrain bread, cheese, sugars, alcohol, treats. Agonizing over that slice of cheesecake and taking only one teaspoon to it for the flavor and pushing the plate with the rest away.
It's calorie counting all the time, looking at what you are about to eat and figuring out how much additional cardio you are going to have to do to burn that cocktail that you could have done without.
It's feeling guilty every meal that does not fit within the macros that you have set for your goal. Scraping off the BBQ sauce from your steak, asking your wife for a huge salad before your meal to try to fill you up.
And I know I will lose my visible abs, if I am not absolutely strict with my nutrition, because I am NOT genetically gifted.
So now I have a food scale, I weigh everything I can. I try to figure out how to compose my next meal, based on what I ate the rest of the day, to compensate.
I started weighing myself everyday, to make sure my caloric intake is correct and am respecting my macros. While running on the treadmill I calculate the additional minutes needed to keep my metabolic rate up and burn the excess calories.
"What is your nutrition?"
It sucks, that is what it is.
It's not fun with friends, it's not tasty at restaurants, it's not pleasurable at clubs.
Maybe those trying to lose weight should just try to set some realistic expectations, forget about single digit BF and simply work to reach a normal weight - or just close - without going crazy, and still be able once in a while to enjoy a slice of pizza and a beer. Which I haven't had in over a year....
You see, the most common question I get, in particular from overweight people, is "What do you eat? What is your diet?", hoping I might have some kind of magic nutrition plan, tasty and delicious, that can help them achieve the body they wish.
Even if it means sounding like a d**k, my response is : what is your goal and most of all how far are you willing to go to reach it?
Unless you are genetically gifted, and I assume they are not if they're asking me about losing weight, for me achieving a six-pack and sub 10%bf and, even more, maintaining it, was a trip to nutrition hell.
I put on fat very easily, and have a hard time losing.
In my case, getting low BF, meant (means) constant hunger, it meant (still means) being mocked by my friends while they are going through chicken wings and beer and I am having a grilled chicken salad, barely any condiment, with a unsweetened ice tea.
It means drinking as much water as I can to try not to feel hunger and going to the bathroom 10 times at night.
It means forgetting about that multigrain bread, cheese, sugars, alcohol, treats. Agonizing over that slice of cheesecake and taking only one teaspoon to it for the flavor and pushing the plate with the rest away.
It's calorie counting all the time, looking at what you are about to eat and figuring out how much additional cardio you are going to have to do to burn that cocktail that you could have done without.
It's feeling guilty every meal that does not fit within the macros that you have set for your goal. Scraping off the BBQ sauce from your steak, asking your wife for a huge salad before your meal to try to fill you up.
And I know I will lose my visible abs, if I am not absolutely strict with my nutrition, because I am NOT genetically gifted.
So now I have a food scale, I weigh everything I can. I try to figure out how to compose my next meal, based on what I ate the rest of the day, to compensate.
I started weighing myself everyday, to make sure my caloric intake is correct and am respecting my macros. While running on the treadmill I calculate the additional minutes needed to keep my metabolic rate up and burn the excess calories.
"What is your nutrition?"
It sucks, that is what it is.
It's not fun with friends, it's not tasty at restaurants, it's not pleasurable at clubs.
Maybe those trying to lose weight should just try to set some realistic expectations, forget about single digit BF and simply work to reach a normal weight - or just close - without going crazy, and still be able once in a while to enjoy a slice of pizza and a beer. Which I haven't had in over a year....
7
Replies
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It seems with your mass, you should have pretty high calorie allotment for the day, no?3
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I have to wonder what your calorie intake is that you can't fit some beers and cheesecake in now and again. Even as a female at my goal weight I'll be fitting those things in. And that's not about BF%, it's about my TDEE.
Whilst I don't underestimate the work it takes to achieve and maintain a low bodyfat, it shouldn't be THAT hard. Maybe I'm wrong though and you're the rule not the exception.1 -
I don't know. As I stated it's more of a psychological issue that physical.
I used to weigh 240lbs with 26% bf.
Now I'm at 178lbs with 9-10%. I eat 2,700 to 2,900 cals a day, 35p/35c/30f
As soon as I up my calories by the standard 500 I put on fat.
My point is that a excessive obsession with keeping lean has probably started to create in my psyche a erroneous perception of myself. The fear to regain fat mixed with the desire to stay below 10% is way stronger that my cravings for "regular" meals...
Don't know if that makes sense0 -
So you won't eat the pizza and cheesecake because it's pizza and cheesecake, not because you don't have enough calories to fit them into your day? That's definitely a disordered way of thinking. And 2700 calories of grilled chicken and salad must be a mountain of food.8
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49DegreesNorth wrote: »I don't know. As I stated it's more of a psychological issue that physical.
I used to weigh 240lbs with 26% bf.
Now I'm at 178lbs with 9-10%. I eat 2,700 to 2,900 cals a day, 35p/35c/30f
As soon as I up my calories by the standard 500 I put on fat.
My point is that a excessive obsession with keeping lean has probably started to create in my psyche a erroneous perception of myself. The fear to regain fat mixed with the desire to stay below 10% is way stronger that my cravings for "regular" meals...
Don't know if that makes sense
A 900 cal breakfast and 2000 cal dinner seems like luxury compared to my 1800 a day lol9 -
VintageFeline wrote: »So you won't eat the pizza and cheesecake because it's pizza and cheesecake, not because you don't have enough calories to fit them into your day? That's definitely a disordered way of thinking. And 2700 calories of grilled chicken and salad must be a mountain of food.
This.
Plus if you eat 2700 to 2900 cals to maintain of course you would gain if you added 500 cals...2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »So you won't eat the pizza and cheesecake because it's pizza and cheesecake, not because you don't have enough calories to fit them into your day? That's definitely a disordered way of thinking. And 2700 calories of grilled chicken and salad must be a mountain of food.
2700 cals for me are usually split pretty evenly in 4 meals of about 600/700 cals each + 200 cals as a post workout snack. Breakfast and Lunch are pretty much the same during the week: greek yogurt, cereal, milk, etc for breakfast, 8oz grilled chicken, chickpeas, lettuce, coleslaw, etc lunch. My post workout is a quest protein bar and my night snack depends on the dinner I have
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Lose your obsession with abs, and get to a psychologist to figure out why you're afraid of food and how to get better at not fearing it.8
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I'd see a therapist. No shame in that. Since realistically, you can eat some of the foods you are abstaining from, this is definitely a mental thing you need to workout.6
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Obsessively healthy isn't healthy. I'm not sure this is disordered eating, do you have bad feelings, anxiety or doom when you eat something outside your "allowable" foods, or just frustration that you can't eat more calories and maintain the same mass?
I am sure you could fit beer and pizza into 2,700Kcal a day. I fit weekend drinks and eating out into my maintenance for under ten stone.
Also I remember you posted before and afters, with the little more fat and you look FANTASTIC in both, truthfully. I personally wouldn't consider it worth it aesthetically to maintain that much less fat if it harms your life in other ways. If I can have a really good body and eat more or less what I want or a perfect body and have to obsessively focus on it, I'm going for option #1.
Also, are you getting enough fat in your diet? Maybe some of the feelings of lack come from actual missing nutrition in your diet. Mind and body are so linked.2 -
Have you considered trying a woe that doesn't leave you so hungry? I know LCHF or keto diets are not for everyone, but many people report reduced hunger when they cut carbs. I know it helped me. For some people, eating more fats is satiating. I'd be hungry on your menu too even though it is slightly more calories than I usually eat.
IF may suit you too. I prefer to eat after noon so my meals are a bit larger than if I had a hearty breakfast. I tend to have more hunger in the evening so it helps to have calories saved up.
Congratulations on your success so far. The effort has paid off. I hope you find a way to make it easier on yourself.2 -
I read an article about this - its premise was that there were certain levels of sacrifice necessary to achieve each particular level of body fat percentage. For sub 10%, it was exactly what you described - I wish I could find the article, because it really made sense. If you want under 10%, you just don't have room to play around or overeat (or drink beer and eat chicken wings).3
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I read an article about this - its premise was that there were certain levels of sacrifice necessary to achieve each particular level of body fat percentage. For sub 10%, it was exactly what you described - I wish I could find the article, because it really made sense. If you want under 10%, you just don't have room to play around or overeat (or drink beer and eat chicken wings).
I was eating cake, pizza, and beer within the last month before my bodybuilding competition. There was plenty of room to play around and I'm not a man, so my calories were lower. The only reasons a man with adequate lean mass and low body fat can't have pizza or cheesecake while maintaining is psychological or poor planning. Women would have less room to play around with, but can still make it work on a smaller scale.5 -
Kudos to you for the dedication required to look like that at any age let alone 50.
My simplistic view is if you aren't happy then make changes. If you need or want professional help to resolve the psychological issues then go for it and best of luck.
2 -
Often, I eat almost like you describe (maybe a little more dressing, but not a bite of cheesecake) with a lot fewer calories... hungry constantly too, yet I can't reach single digit body fat %. I would say, given your plan, you are doing very well. It isn't easy and it isn't "disordered" to acknowledge this.
It's a personal choice of whether to be happy with the type and quantity of food you eat or to be fit. If you don't like your choice to be fit, then you are not stuck with it... Here is how easy it is: Just don't put the effort into planning and tracking every bite. Then eat what satisfies you at the moment.1 -
49DegreesNorth wrote: »Am I on the road to having an eating disorder?
probably a great question to ask. i have nothing useful to say, since eating disorders are shoes i haven't walked in myself.
but i can't help thinking that if it's enough of a concern for you that you're asking it, you might have the answer right there. you do sound like you feel very trapped by the requirements of your current regime.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »It's a personal choice of whether to be happy with the type and quantity of food you eat or to be fit.
Except that you can have it both ways. It's not an either/or situation. You can be fit and eat anything you want. I'm not saying you can eat an entire cheesecake or half a pizza without some sacrifice, but on a reasonable portion size level you don't have to choose between hunger and enjoying a treat. Balance.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Often, I eat almost like you describe (maybe a little more dressing, but not a bite of cheesecake) with a lot fewer calories... hungry constantly too, yet I can't reach single digit body fat %. I would say, given your plan, you are doing very well. It isn't easy and it isn't "disordered" to acknowledge this.
It's a personal choice of whether to be happy with the type and quantity of food you eat or to be fit. If you don't like your choice to be fit, then you are not stuck with it... Here is how easy it is: Just don't put the effort into planning and tracking every bite. Then eat what satisfies you at the moment.
The bold is a false dichotomy - you can be extremely fit without going for very low bodyfat levels and having a very restrictive diet.
I choose to eat food I enjoy and are happy eating (most people would regard it as a healthy overall diet that includes a proportion of treats) - I'm also extremely fit. Misery for me would be forever restricting my choices. When I go out to a nice restaurant I'm choosing my meal based on taste and enjoyment of a social event - not calories and macros.
I can respect the effort that people put into aesthetic goals but when that goal makes someone unhappy then I would question if it's right for that individual.
4 -
I read an article about this - its premise was that there were certain levels of sacrifice necessary to achieve each particular level of body fat percentage. For sub 10%, it was exactly what you described - I wish I could find the article, because it really made sense. If you want under 10%, you just don't have room to play around or overeat (or drink beer and eat chicken wings).
I was eating cake, pizza, and beer within the last month before my bodybuilding competition. There was plenty of room to play around and I'm not a man, so my calories were lower. The only reasons a man with adequate lean mass and low body fat can't have pizza or cheesecake while maintaining is psychological or poor planning. Women would have less room to play around with, but can still make it work on a smaller scale.
This.
You can still play around, but you're going to need to be more mindful than if you were at a higher caloric allotment obviously. It boils down to what is more important to you... You say your desire to stay sub 10% is more important than being able to eat flexibly, but then go on to complain about not being able to eat flexibly... So obviously it does bother you.
At that point I'd ask why the obsession of being under 10%? What do you get from it? Do you compete, do you earn a living off it?
If not, might be worth easing up and learning to be comfortable with a more balanced approach.3 -
Also, eat clen and tren hard.4
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What you did there, I see it.1
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LolBroScience wrote: »You say your desire to stay sub 10% is more important than being able to eat flexibly, but then go on to complain about not being able to eat flexibly... So obviously it does bother you.
I said it was a mental issue, not a physical one.
of course it bothers me
But it's a bit like telling a anorexic to start eating... not THAT simple1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Often, I eat almost like you describe (maybe a little more dressing, but not a bite of cheesecake) with a lot fewer calories... hungry constantly too, yet I can't reach single digit body fat %. I would say, given your plan, you are doing very well. It isn't easy and it isn't "disordered" to acknowledge this.
It's a personal choice of whether to be happy with the type and quantity of food you eat or to be fit. If you don't like your choice to be fit, then you are not stuck with it... Here is how easy it is: Just don't put the effort into planning and tracking every bite. Then eat what satisfies you at the moment.
The bold is a false dichotomy - you can be extremely fit without going for very low bodyfat levels and having a very restrictive diet.
I choose to eat food I enjoy and are happy eating (most people would regard it as a healthy overall diet that includes a proportion of treats) - I'm also extremely fit. Misery for me would be forever restricting my choices. When I go out to a nice restaurant I'm choosing my meal based on taste and enjoyment of a social event - not calories and macros.
I can respect the effort that people put into aesthetic goals but when that goal makes someone unhappy then I would question if it's right for that individual.midwesterner85 wrote: »It's a personal choice of whether to be happy with the type and quantity of food you eat or to be fit.
Except that you can have it both ways. It's not an either/or situation. You can be fit and eat anything you want. I'm not saying you can eat an entire cheesecake or half a pizza without some sacrifice, but on a reasonable portion size level you don't have to choose between hunger and enjoying a treat. Balance.
I believe both of your experiences, but I find my experience differs. Maybe you can have it both ways, but I can't. It looks like OP can't either. I've tried to find a WOE that keeps me happy and fit... have spent a very long time searching. Low carb comes the closest, but it still doesn't fully work.1 -
49DegreesNorth wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You say your desire to stay sub 10% is more important than being able to eat flexibly, but then go on to complain about not being able to eat flexibly... So obviously it does bother you.
I said it was a mental issue, not a physical one.
of course it bothers me
But it's a bit like telling a anorexic to start eating... not THAT simple
Hence my additional questions that I asked.2 -
49DegreesNorth wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You say your desire to stay sub 10% is more important than being able to eat flexibly, but then go on to complain about not being able to eat flexibly... So obviously it does bother you.
I said it was a mental issue, not a physical one.
of course it bothers me
But it's a bit like telling a anorexic to start eating... not THAT simple
And if you're comparing yourself in that way you need to see a doctor and get some help.3 -
49DegreesNorth wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You say your desire to stay sub 10% is more important than being able to eat flexibly, but then go on to complain about not being able to eat flexibly... So obviously it does bother you.
I said it was a mental issue, not a physical one.
of course it bothers me
But it's a bit like telling a anorexic to start eating... not THAT simple
Sounds like you need some professional help to get through this, I'd see if your doctor can refer you to a specialist and go from there.1 -
Feel you. This sounds exactly like post show competitors mentality- having come off deprivation, fat accumulates like crazy with any return to "normal eating". I know people crap on "reverse dieting" but there's something to it.
Should you be within your macros, I can't see how some foods, while not others, would force fat gain. I've seen too many who can have their cake and eat it too (not to mention carve their abs and see them too), including myself.
If your picture is representative, you know the tricks of the trade- it may just be proving out what you're afraid of with some expert coaching.
Curiosity- are your calories currently pretty low for your build and TDEE to maintain aesthetics or are you up pretty high?3 -
I think if your goal is to have a certain bf%, it's not disordered thinking to know what your maintenance cals are and to stick to it. You are dedicated.
I personally like food too much to have a body fat of 14-15% (I'm female), but eventually I think I could hold it at 18% once I am finished bulking. Anything less than 18% and I'd have to limit what I eat too much.
So I guess you have to evaluate how much you want to stay below 10%. I personally think that 14% on a man is extremely sexy...it's the % of body fat on a man that I find the most attractive. It's not too lean, no veins are showing, it's a little soft and great for hugging and sexy as heck to look at.
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Sounds like utter torture...4
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