Pattern Awareness
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It happens, but rarely (or, no - depending on how I interpret your question). I have experienced the metallic taste that tells you that you should have stopped a few bites ago - once or twice during the last three years. If I can't finish my meal, I stop, and put it in the garbage or in the fridge. I don't stop at "just satisfied" when there's still more on my plate.stroutman81 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »I will eat more if I'm genuinely hungry, and I will consider eating more just because it was delicious
But most of the time, I'm content with what I've served myself. I may have to say "no", but that's allright.I have been thinking about "restriction", what that really means. I read about "the power of enough" (book) last night - one big factor that distinguises "simple living" from "poverty", is choice. I used to eat loads of junk, and very unstructured, because I believed that I was executing free will. It didn't occur to me (until I found MFP) that eating real food and eating meals, doesn't mean that I can't eat what I like and when I'm hungry. (This makes me feel stupid, mixed with bitterness, insight and relief!)
Do you ever NOT eat what you served yourself? As in... you're dialed into how satisfied you are and you reach that point of satisfaction before your plate is clean?
My impression from these boards is that this is the most essential factor in the struggling.And yeah... I think that's pretty common. People have a hard time eating in ways that honor their health and fitness because they're focusing on what they CAN'T have instead of what they CAN. Perception is a powerful thing... that's for sure.
It feels like I have convertedI'm glad to hear how your mindset shift has helped. This is definitely an introspective journey!
My body gives signals, I'm just slow to pick them up. My appetite is delayed - it usually peaks right after I've eatenYes, it's weird, but correct. When I have something to compare with, I can feel how full I am. But just gauging, even considering how much I've eaten, isn't enough.
I wonder if it's simply that the visuals help connect you to the satiation signals that your body is giving you. Without the visuals, your mind's too out of it to remind you how satisfied you are. Just spitballing... but interesting nonetheless.
I think visuals are great for people, though. I know I use them when thinking about serving sizes.
And if I've eaten too much, I will feel the effect for several hours. I could slow down my eating, but I like to eat fast. I have Asperger's; it can be slow processing and/or lack of imagination, or unrelated, but anyway - I always look forward to eating, but still I'm always very surprised how tasty my meal is. Today, I started looking into that. Now I'm going to make an effort to anticipate the tastes and textures when I prepare the meal, so that my appetite gets a head start. It would be great to stop wanting more food as I take the last bite. 0 -
The bolded - headshotstroutman81 wrote: »
Hey, ya know what? That you're even weighing that choice the way you did last nigh is a testament to the fact that you're changing. Most nighttime snacking is barely conscious. It's driven by automaticity because of things like patterns and emotional cravings. The more awareness you can build into your routines, like this, the more you'll be able to uncover other needs that are simply manifesting as emotional cravings right now. And that's when you can start doing the work of nurturing those needs specifically... rather than general remedy you're currently rocking. Which is, "Eat cookies."
Stay the course!
Also, I'll say this. Counting calories falls down some of the time because it disconnects people from what their bodies are telling them. "I'm satisfied but I'm supposed to eat this many calories. I have some left to fill. Might as well eat something." This sort of behavior, over meaningful spans of time, can really do a number on intentional eating.
Food for thought. I actually have that conversation with myself. "Am I just eating because I'm "supposed" to? You know, to hit the macro numbers...I feel like a trained monkey sometimes lol.
Much food for thought.My advice? Don't make it about "serious restructuring." Rather, make it about subtle changes as you experiment and flesh out what leaves you feeling your best. I do think, though, that it'd suit you well to start building in more awareness of hunger and satisfaction. Otherwise, you're always going to be a slave to the quantification approach you currently find yourself on.
Your thread just did that.
I have no idea what prompted you to make this thread, but it's working here. I keep thinking how nice it would be to simply eat only what I need only when I'm hungry. What a concept eh? LoL.
Thanks for the insight. I'm taking it very much to heart.
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I've learned to separate out different types of hunger. For me, the hunger pattern that was causing the most havoc was the one caused by post nasal drip -- it makes me feel like I need something in my stomach to absorb it, but it was leading to random grazing behavior. Once I started tracking, I realized that a lot of the snacking was on days that this was a problem, and had to experiment. For me, a half serving of something like pretzel chips or sunflower seeds works really well for solving the "empty stomach but not actually hungry" issue, and it doesn't wreak havoc with my daily calorie allotment.1
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I am able to establish new patterns fairly easily, and they make my life so much simpler. Sustaining a habit is the bigger challenge for me.
I eat the same thing for breakfast every day - because I like it and it fills me up and gives me good energy. I eat a similar lunch most days, but I have some healthy back-ups that get swapped in as needed. I like to cook, so just getting back in the kitchen has been a good adjustment. I love leftovers, because they are like a home cooked gift from yesterday. So I cook things that we can eat for more than one meal.
I have been walking after work, and this is the most likely place where my plan can break down. But I have NOT been able to cultivate a habit of exercising in the morning. Notice that I am not giving up on this strategy, I am just not able to execute it yet.
Logging my food is a comforting habit for me. I have the deal with myself that I can eat ANYTHING I want to, but I HAVE TO measure it and log it. It helps me make better decisions.
I lost weight before, but my perfectionism led to an "all or nothing" mindset. After a year of "all perfect" eating, I switched to "never perfect" eating, which was a terrible choice.
This time, I am trying to keep my focus on developing healthy behaviors instead of being perfect. Being kind to myself is a pattern I am trying to cultivate.1 -
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Yes I'm still tracking, have my calories set to 250 defecit but I'm just not adhering to it well enough ..my "pattern" is too slack
I've tried to supplant my reduced activity with more purposeful exercise and I'm not gaining ...so there's that
I need the adherence back ..can't find it ..but I know that's what's missing
Okay, so it sounds like the move did lead to less movement, which reduces your maintenance. And maybe there's some stress mixed in there that's causing you to want to soothe with food?
Adherence is a byproduct of a number of things... namely flexibly subscribing to a plan that actually meets you where you're at. And you're at a new place in our life... physically and I'm sure mentally too. It's also a product of caring for yourself on all levels... not just with fitness. Often times people ignore the other non-fitness parts of themselves and these wind up rebelling. Often times in the form of eating food that they aren't necessarily hungry for.
Food for thought. I welcome any follow up.Nice to see you back...I enjoyed your old thread, but I was more of a lurker
Hey, thanks very much!
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I associate transport hubs - bus stations, railway stations, airports, service stations - with treats. As soon as I find myself somewhere like that I'm looking the the shiny display of crisps and sweets and reaching for my money.
A strange exception is the bus station where I catch the bus home. I don't go looking for treats there, AS LONG AS I stay in the draughty outside bit where you actually catch the buses. Apparently that's not junk food territory. But if I miss the bus and go to wait for the next one the precinct where the shops and information desks are, I'll be looking for treats.
And no, it's not just the visible presence of sweeties that does it - I'm not like this in shopping centres or supermarkets. It's something about travelling.2 -
stroutman81 wrote: »I've taught myself over the past 16 months of mindful eating and 60 pounds gone, that I prefer to go to bed with an empty rather than full stomach. Not growly empty, but nothing to eat since I finished a satisfying dinner at 6 pm. If I break this pattern, I tend to lie awake and end up berating myself for overindulgence. Disappointed, not angry. I know better than to take in extra calories that I really didn't even want.
Nice work so far! You should be proud.
It sounds like your preference for not eating after dinner is more emotional than physical. Would that be accurate?
Thank you.
Yes, it could be partly emotional, but if I go to bed too full, I am more uncomfortable and restless. Just a bit quirky!
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stroutman81 wrote: »
In terms of reaching my goals? No. In terms of reaching my goals easier (planning and prepping take so much time), yes, it's a definite possibility.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »It happens, but rarely (or, no - depending on how I interpret your question). I have experienced the metallic taste that tells you that you should have stopped a few bites ago - once or twice during the last three years. If I can't finish my meal, I stop, and put it in the garbage or in the fridge. I don't stop at "just satisfied" when there's still more on my plate.
It's hard to stop at satisfied when you can't feel it. I like the method of calling a timeout about halfway through the meal to check in with yourself and assess how you're feeling, remember to chew slowly and mindfully enjoy the texture and taste of what you're eating. And then once again, another time out when there are a few bites remaining. I wonder if something like this would create the space for more connectedness to how you're feeling.
Not that you need change. Sorry if I'm thrusting that on you. If you truly enjoy the system you're rocking now... by all means... rock it!My impression from these boards is that this is the most essential factor in the struggling.
I've been coaching people for nearly half my life and have found this to be the case.My body gives signals, I'm just slow to pick them up. My appetite is delayed - it usually peaks right after I've eaten And if I've eaten too much, I will feel the effect for several hours. I could slow down my eating, but I like to eat fast. I have Asperger's; it can be slow processing and/or lack of imagination, or unrelated, but anyway - I always look forward to eating, but still I'm always very surprised how tasty my meal is. Today, I started looking into that. Now I'm going to make an effort to anticipate the tastes and textures when I prepare the meal, so that my appetite gets a head start. It would be great to stop wanting more food as I take the last bite.
Awesome experiment. Please check back in and let us know what you learn.
And yeah, if you feel the need to eat quickly... it's a tougher road. I've had clients go as far as to set timers while they eat to see if they could stretch it out a certain length of time. It has helped a lot.
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stroutman81 wrote: »
I flatout don't understand what you're asking in your OP. I'm horrible with applying philosophy or rather, abstract thoughts, to reality.
Do I have patterns or habits in my life? Yes. Do I know what they are? No. Either they are buried so deep in my mind that I don't bother registering them, or I do recognize but I don't care to analyze them.
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The bolded - headshotstroutman81 wrote: »
Hey, ya know what? That you're even weighing that choice the way you did last nigh is a testament to the fact that you're changing. Most nighttime snacking is barely conscious. It's driven by automaticity because of things like patterns and emotional cravings. The more awareness you can build into your routines, like this, the more you'll be able to uncover other needs that are simply manifesting as emotional cravings right now. And that's when you can start doing the work of nurturing those needs specifically... rather than general remedy you're currently rocking. Which is, "Eat cookies."
Stay the course!
Also, I'll say this. Counting calories falls down some of the time because it disconnects people from what their bodies are telling them. "I'm satisfied but I'm supposed to eat this many calories. I have some left to fill. Might as well eat something." This sort of behavior, over meaningful spans of time, can really do a number on intentional eating.
Food for thought. I actually have that conversation with myself. "Am I just eating because I'm "supposed" to? You know, to hit the macro numbers...I feel like a trained monkey sometimes lol.
Much food for thought.
Once you get hooked on the quantification of your food, it can take some real courage and vulnerability to begin stepping away from it all and trusting yourself and your body. When you're ready, though... you can do so gradually. For example, I have a client right now who's moving away from the quantification approach. She started by not counting calories during her breakfasts on the weekends. That's what she felt comfortable and confident with. We'll let her build competence there and progress as she's ready.Your thread just did that. I have no idea what prompted you to make this thread, but it's working here. I keep thinking how nice it would be to simply eat only what I need only when I'm hungry. What a concept eh? LoL.
Thanks for the insight. I'm taking it very much to heart.
Great! I'm glad. And I used to start threads on MFP all the time just to have these kinds of exchanges. I love them. They enlighten me as well. More of this in the future I hope!
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I have found that applying the same ideas that are taught to people learning to budget really helps me. The want vs. need idea really works for me.
YES. YES. YES. I thought I was the only one that noticed this! We are big Dave Ramsey fans. We haven't had debt for most of our 21yrs of marriage. As I have listened to him over the years I noticed as my weight increased (started mostly about half way through our marriage) I got lax with our budget and savings. When I'm doing really well at saving, I'm doing really well at "budgeting" my daily calories. When I'm spending more then I know I *should* (even if we can afford to), I'm not doing well at budgeting my daily calories. I'm so glad you "verbalized" this because I have seen it in myself for a long time and really wondered if they were connected. For me, if I want a real view of how I'm doing in one of these areas, I look at how I'm doing in the other area and that usually answers it for me (especially if I'm having a hard time being objective in one area or the other). From there I start looking at what I need to do to make adjustments.
Well, for some reason this just made my day. LOL 1 -
stroutman81 wrote: »
I flatout don't understand what you're asking in your OP. I'm horrible with applying philosophy or rather, abstract thoughts, to reality.
Do I have patterns or habits in my life? Yes. Do I know what they are? No. Either they are buried so deep in my mind that I don't bother registering them, or I do recognize but I don't care to analyze them.
I think she just means habits that are so ingrained they become automatic, like always eating when you watch TV, always eating a snack in the car or (one of my strange ones) always drinking a glass of milk with peanut butter toast. That one is so ingrained it's like a compulsion, peanut butter toast without milk is just all wrong. I'll actually make the toast without thinking about milk, but then as soon as taste it, I have to get up and go looking for milk.0 -
I think I see where you're going with all of this, and the idea is extremely attractive to me. Wrong wording here possibly, but to me it simply feels like the idea of not being ruled by our food, having it fill it's proper place. Once my gas tank is full in my car, I never try to pump more in, nor do I gas up when it's not necessary. It's fuel and only fuel and we both know it's proper place.stroutman81 wrote: »
The bolded - headshotstroutman81 wrote: »
Hey, ya know what? That you're even weighing that choice the way you did last nigh is a testament to the fact that you're changing. Most nighttime snacking is barely conscious. It's driven by automaticity because of things like patterns and emotional cravings. The more awareness you can build into your routines, like this, the more you'll be able to uncover other needs that are simply manifesting as emotional cravings right now. And that's when you can start doing the work of nurturing those needs specifically... rather than general remedy you're currently rocking. Which is, "Eat cookies."
Stay the course!
Also, I'll say this. Counting calories falls down some of the time because it disconnects people from what their bodies are telling them. "I'm satisfied but I'm supposed to eat this many calories. I have some left to fill. Might as well eat something." This sort of behavior, over meaningful spans of time, can really do a number on intentional eating.
Food for thought. I actually have that conversation with myself. "Am I just eating because I'm "supposed" to? You know, to hit the macro numbers...I feel like a trained monkey sometimes lol.
Much food for thought.
Once you get hooked on the quantification of your food, it can take some real courage and vulnerability to begin stepping away from it all and trusting yourself and your body. When you're ready, though... you can do so gradually. For example, I have a client right now who's moving away from the quantification approach. She started by not counting calories during her breakfasts on the weekends. That's what she felt comfortable and confident with. We'll let her build competence there and progress as she's ready.Your thread just did that. I have no idea what prompted you to make this thread, but it's working here. I keep thinking how nice it would be to simply eat only what I need only when I'm hungry. What a concept eh? LoL.
Thanks for the insight. I'm taking it very much to heart.
Great! I'm glad. And I used to start threads on MFP all the time just to have these kinds of exchanges. I love them. They enlighten me as well. More of this in the future I hope!
Thinking of food according to that analogy is both appealing and practical sounding to me. I'm not 100% sure that's where you're going, but I'll take what I can get
I'm hoping you stay around too. I'll be on the lookout for your threads
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Clemsonlkg wrote: »I am able to establish new patterns fairly easily, and they make my life so much simpler. Sustaining a habit is the bigger challenge for me.
In your mind, what's the difference between a pattern as I explained it in the OP and a habit as you're using it here? Please know, I'm not challenging you. I'm genuinely curious after reading this sentence.I eat the same thing for breakfast every day - because I like it and it fills me up and gives me good energy. I eat a similar lunch most days, but I have some healthy back-ups that get swapped in as needed. I like to cook, so just getting back in the kitchen has been a good adjustment. I love leftovers, because they are like a home cooked gift from yesterday. So I cook things that we can eat for more than one meal.
All great stuff. I'm very similar. Pretty much eat the same thing for breakfast everyday until I get sick of it. My next meal is pretty stable but I have a bunch of preplanned swaps that I can lean on when I'm either not feeling the regular meal or I'm in a pinch with time. The third meal varies because I eat it with the family. And we usually make enough for leftovers because they make life so much easier! My fourth meal is like my second meal.I have been walking after work, and this is the most likely place where my plan can break down. But I have NOT been able to cultivate a habit of exercising in the morning. Notice that I am not giving up on this strategy, I am just not able to execute it yet.
Hmmm, what typically trips up your walking in the afternoons?
And what's driving you to want to exercise in the morning?Logging my food is a comforting habit for me. I have the deal with myself that I can eat ANYTHING I want to, but I HAVE TO measure it and log it. It helps me make better decisions.
I'm glad you've found something that resonates with you.
Do you think this is a forever sort of thing or how would you like to see it evolve over time?I lost weight before, but my perfectionism led to an "all or nothing" mindset. After a year of "all perfect" eating, I switched to "never perfect" eating, which was a terrible choice.
This time, I am trying to keep my focus on developing healthy behaviors instead of being perfect. Being kind to myself is a pattern I am trying to cultivate.
Translation:
Last time you used a "punch myself in the face" approach.
This time you're using "I love me enough to treat myself kindly and with compassion" approach.
Good adjustment.
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CattOfTheGarage wrote: »I associate transport hubs - bus stations, railway stations, airports, service stations - with treats. As soon as I find myself somewhere like that I'm looking the the shiny display of crisps and sweets and reaching for my money.
A strange exception is the bus station where I catch the bus home. I don't go looking for treats there, AS LONG AS I stay in the draughty outside bit where you actually catch the buses. Apparently that's not junk food territory. But if I miss the bus and go to wait for the next one the precinct where the shops and information desks are, I'll be looking for treats.
And no, it's not just the visible presence of sweeties that does it - I'm not like this in shopping centres or supermarkets. It's something about travelling.
How often do you find yourself in transport hubs?0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »
In terms of reaching my goals? No. In terms of reaching my goals easier (planning and prepping take so much time), yes, it's a definite possibility.
Do you feel the clock-based approach to eating is sustainable for you?0 -
ronjsteele1 wrote: »I have found that applying the same ideas that are taught to people learning to budget really helps me. The want vs. need idea really works for me.
YES. YES. YES. I thought I was the only one that noticed this! We are big Dave Ramsey fans. We haven't had debt for most of our 21yrs of marriage. As I have listened to him over the years I noticed as my weight increased (started mostly about half way through our marriage) I got lax with our budget and savings. When I'm doing really well at saving, I'm doing really well at "budgeting" my daily calories. When I'm spending more then I know I *should* (even if we can afford to), I'm not doing well at budgeting my daily calories. I'm so glad you "verbalized" this because I have seen it in myself for a long time and really wondered if they were connected. For me, if I want a real view of how I'm doing in one of these areas, I look at how I'm doing in the other area and that usually answers it for me (especially if I'm having a hard time being objective in one area or the other). From there I start looking at what I need to do to make adjustments.
Well, for some reason this just made my day. LOL
What about finance management do you think influences the way you interact with food? I think this is very interesting.
Or do you think that it's not so much these two things are interrelated, but rather there's an underlying theme in your life that tends to influence both of these things simultaneously?
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stroutman81 wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »
In terms of reaching my goals? No. In terms of reaching my goals easier (planning and prepping take so much time), yes, it's a definite possibility.
Do you feel the clock-based approach to eating is sustainable for you?
I do. It's a comfort for me during the work week. I know I get to eat every few hours, which also gives me a break at work. If there is a special lunch or something at work and one day is thrown off, I don't have a rise in anxiety or anything like that. On the weekends I'm more flexible because I get up later in the morning and I'm usually up much later, so I like to save a lot of my calories for later in the night.1
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