High- vs low- carb diet
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dija92
Posts: 8 Member
Hey all,
In the middle of reading a book by Gary Taubes, quite a famous advocate of low-carb diets. It's actually quite a scientifically appealing book, the guys clearly done his research.
But I've heard a lot of people who seem equally or more qualified discredit the idea of low-carb diets, some even advocating a high-carb diet.
One of the things that stop me 100% buying this Taubes guy's arguments is that he's completely opposed to the 'calories in, calories out' idea for tackling obesity, almost blaming the emphasis on it for so many people continually failing to lose weight permanently.
All I can say is that the more I read about nutrition, the less I seem to be sure about how you can lose weight as someone who's chronically overweight/obese and maintain that healthy weight.
I suppose my questions an open ended one, what do you guys think is the optimal balance of macros? How do you deal with the minefield of conflicting information? And is there somebody's information on nutrition that you completely trust, and if so, why them?
Cheers
(Edit: just realised there's a better forum for this post, sorry!)
In the middle of reading a book by Gary Taubes, quite a famous advocate of low-carb diets. It's actually quite a scientifically appealing book, the guys clearly done his research.
But I've heard a lot of people who seem equally or more qualified discredit the idea of low-carb diets, some even advocating a high-carb diet.
One of the things that stop me 100% buying this Taubes guy's arguments is that he's completely opposed to the 'calories in, calories out' idea for tackling obesity, almost blaming the emphasis on it for so many people continually failing to lose weight permanently.
All I can say is that the more I read about nutrition, the less I seem to be sure about how you can lose weight as someone who's chronically overweight/obese and maintain that healthy weight.
I suppose my questions an open ended one, what do you guys think is the optimal balance of macros? How do you deal with the minefield of conflicting information? And is there somebody's information on nutrition that you completely trust, and if so, why them?
Cheers
(Edit: just realised there's a better forum for this post, sorry!)
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Replies
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IMO you just have to find the diet that you'll stick to.2
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Optimal balance is individual due to personal preferences and medical issues and goals.
I have learned what works well for me and that is what I follow. Experiment, evaluate, and adapt is my motto. I also think that most people should make a series of slight changes to their diets rather than huge changes all at once. My focus is on long term sustainable habits rather than fast results.2 -
Hi i personally do not believe in counting calories ot macrotracking to lose weight.
I used to do both as a pro sportsman but not to lose weight. more to make sure i was getting enough enregy for my training.
I am just raining now to get back in shape & i began doing intermittant fasting back in Aug 2016, i train every morning (3 times week very intense) on an empty stomache.
I have no actual weight loss goal. i am training for a better fitness level.
For me personally intermittant fasting & the Warior Training is working out.
I don1't think there is anything magical about this system, it is just a very good way of controlling nutrition and training.
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Yeah, I'm with Francl27. High-carb, low-carb, moderate, Paleo, blah blah. It's all smoke and mirrors.
It is absolutely about staying within your calorie limit. It takes trial and error and keeping really good records for you to figure out how to make that work so you feel satisfied and are able to comply comfortably.
Just set up your goals here, log all your food, make some notes about how you feel after certain foods, study your food diary and learn from it.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »Yeah, I'm with Francl27. High-carb, low-carb, moderate, Paleo, blah blah. It's all smoke and mirrors.
It is absolutely about staying within your calorie limit. It takes trial and error and keeping really good records for you to figure out how to make that work so you feel satisfied and are able to comply comfortably.
Just set up your goals here, log all your food, make some notes about how you feel after certain foods, study your food diary and learn from it.
Hi that is more or less what i was traing to say
Dosent matter which "tool" you use. it is all about just keeping on track of things.
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Hey all,
In the middle of reading a book by Gary Taubes, quite a famous advocate of low-carb diets. It's actually quite a scientifically appealing book, the guys clearly done his research.
But I've heard a lot of people who seem equally or more qualified discredit the idea of low-carb diets, some even advocating a high-carb diet.
One of the things that stop me 100% buying this Taubes guy's arguments is that he's completely opposed to the 'calories in, calories out' idea for tackling obesity, almost blaming the emphasis on it for so many people continually failing to lose weight permanently.
All I can say is that the more I read about nutrition, the less I seem to be sure about how you can lose weight as someone who's chronically overweight/obese and maintain that healthy weight.
I suppose my questions an open ended one, what do you guys think is the optimal balance of macros? How do you deal with the minefield of conflicting information? And is there somebody's information on nutrition that you completely trust, and if so, why them?
Cheers
(Edit: just realised there's a better forum for this post, sorry!)
Most "blue zone" regions of the world eat a substantively plant based diet that tends to be higher carb...vegetarians tend to be higher carb...vegans tend to be higher carb, etc. It's BS...there's nothing wrong with carbs. Unfortunately this kind of crap makes people think that carbs are just junk...veggies aren't junk...fruit isn't junk...lentils and legumes aren't junk...oats and other whole grains aren't junk...whole food starches like potatoes and sweet potatoes aren't junk...etc, etc, etc...there's are numerous sources of nutritionally awesome carbohydrates.
Personally, I eat a pretty balanced diet...I don't see the need for extremes like low carb and high carb...there's this whole place in the middle that people tend to forget about for some reason.
Weight loss ultimately comes down to consuming less energy than is required to maintain the status quo...it's really pretty simple.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Hey all,
In the middle of reading a book by Gary Taubes, quite a famous advocate of low-carb diets. It's actually quite a scientifically appealing book, the guys clearly done his research.
But I've heard a lot of people who seem equally or more qualified discredit the idea of low-carb diets, some even advocating a high-carb diet.
One of the things that stop me 100% buying this Taubes guy's arguments is that he's completely opposed to the 'calories in, calories out' idea for tackling obesity, almost blaming the emphasis on it for so many people continually failing to lose weight permanently.
All I can say is that the more I read about nutrition, the less I seem to be sure about how you can lose weight as someone who's chronically overweight/obese and maintain that healthy weight.
I suppose my questions an open ended one, what do you guys think is the optimal balance of macros? How do you deal with the minefield of conflicting information? And is there somebody's information on nutrition that you completely trust, and if so, why them?
Cheers
(Edit: just realised there's a better forum for this post, sorry!)
Most "blue zone" regions of the world eat a substantively plant based diet that tends to be higher carb...vegetarians tend to be higher carb...vegans tend to be higher carb, etc. It's BS...there's nothing wrong with carbs. Unfortunately this kind of crap makes people think that carbs are just junk...veggies aren't junk...fruit isn't junk...lentils and legumes aren't junk...oats and other whole grains aren't junk...whole food starches like potatoes and sweet potatoes aren't junk...etc, etc, etc...there's are numerous sources of nutritionally awesome carbohydrates.
Personally, I eat a pretty balanced diet...I don't see the need for extremes like low carb and high carb...there's this whole place in the middle that people tend to forget about for some reason.
Weight loss ultimately comes down to consuming less energy than is required to maintain the status quo...it's really pretty simple.
I just checked out what i have been eating this week (don't normally do that) im on about 75 % carbs.
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LCHF can be helpful and healthful for people who have some form of insulin resistance (PCOS, NAFLD, T2D, prediabetes, CAD, Alzheimer's) and metabolic syndrome. It keeps blood glucose lower which can benefit those people's health... And that's about half of all people and most people who are overweight.
On he other hand, there is a minority of people (I've seen ~10% listed a lot) who thrive on a high carb diet. The rest, about 40%, seem to do fine with moderate carbs.
If looking at macros without any health considerations, then you would just want to make sure you get adequate protein and fat for your physical needs, eat macros that are satiating and that you'll stick to.
I am very lucky. I eat LCHF for my health but I find this diet satiating and tasty so I have been abe to stay with it for quite a while. I eat a balanced diet of meat, veggies, dairy, nuts, eggs, and some fruit. I mostly skip grains but there is nothing in there that I can't get elsewhere. Sort of like how a vegetarian, pescatarian, or sometime vegatarian will skip meat but still meet their nutritional needs in other ways.
Edited to add that I like Taubes and I don't think he means to literally ignore CI<CO for weight loss. I think his point is often that it is not always the main factor. For me, I would cut calories for a while but it wasn't sustainable until I changed my diet. Then cutting calories became MUCH easier and I even lost faster than expected. I used a diet that addressed my health needs, and THEN weight loss became easier. And of course I was eating at a deficit. It is impossible to lose weight if you don't.3 -
It's a funny thing. I think term low carb gets thrown around, but not everyone means the same thing.
With my dr and nutritionist, I eat 6 meals with a target of 15net carbs at each. That doesn't work out to be low in total carbs, especially if I'm eating foods high in fiber.
I don't count calories. But when I fill my day with whole unprocessed nutritious foods, my calories are in target to what MFP has.
There aren't bad foods, but it's trial and error over time as to what foods work for you and what don't. There's no magic formula, no trick. Just making good food choices.
For example, my nutritionist knows I have a heaping glass of wine and a slice of pizzeria pizza every Friday night. Clearly not in my target of 15 net carbs, but because I've made good choices the rest of the week it has no real effect on my weight loss goals.
Outside of that, I generally follow a paleo/primal style. I'm not strict but follow. My cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood sugars normalized in 3 months eating that way. It's seems counterintuitive bc you eat lots of fat and protein as well. But based on my labs my body likes it--when I stick to it
I consider myself lower carb. But really I just try to eat whole healthy unprocessed foods.1 -
Metabolism is a really complex subject. It isn't just about calories and calories out it's how they're processed and where they are coming from in the first place.
Like other posters. Find what works for you. I was doing keto, but I love vegetables way too much. It just made me feel bleugh. And quite honestly- a burger with out a bun is really depressing. And I love burgers. Lol1 -
I suppose my questions an open ended one, what do you guys think is the optimal balance of macros?
There's no such thing. Traditional human diets that seem to lead to really positive results vary widely in their macros.
You personally may find you feel better or find it easier to control calories on a particular set of macros, although what I've found is that choosing nutrient dense foods within the macros (some legumes and fish as well as other animal sources of protein, fatty fish and other sources of healthy fats like nuts, olives, avocados, vegetables, fruits and whole grains as significant sources of carbs (as well as legumes again), limiting low nutrient high cal extras like sweets or french fries or (to some extent) cheese and especially fatty meats, although I don't cut things out if I love them).
This is a good source I trust: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/
If you stay away from diet books and look at nutrition sources, as well as things like research on the blue zones (areas where people live long), I think you get a pretty consistent set of information. Some things I'd recommend at a general reader level:
Matt Fitzgerald's Diet Cults (about the competing claims made by various diets)
Marion Nestle's What to Eat
Michael Pollan's books
Dan Buettner's books on the Blue Zones and what they have in common.
Another read you might find interesting is http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/
I posted this elsewhere recently and noted that it is consistent with what I thought after watching a discussion with Taubes. He is good on applying a skeptical eye to other diet advice, but when it comes to what he's already made up his mind is the OneTrueWay he really fails to do so at all: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/thin-body-of-evidence-why-i-have-doubts-about-gary-taubess-why-we-get-fat/ As a result, I don't have much respect for him on diet stuff (although I think low carbing is a good choice for some, provided you still eat your veg and so on).
As for my own macros, they have varied. I was mostly 40 (carbs) 30 30 when losing and liked it. Tried to do 50-25-25 for a while (and maintenance) and that didn't really work for me because it just didn't feel natural to me. Now I let my carbs fall again and am just trying to hit my protein goal and making healthy choices otherwise, with some extras because of taste.1 -
TBH, I'm my own authority these days. I believed the government recommendations were evidenced based and they're not. When I came here I believed Harvard's were evidenced based where the governments weren't and it turns out they're not either. At least not good evidence. Nutrition science is disgraceful.
I've come up with my own guidelines based on what I was taught growing up - before commercial interests and good intentions muddied the waters - and just an amalgamation of everything I've read since then. When in doubt I tend to fall back on what I learned growing up before everyone was fat and sick.
Whole foods are healthful.
Ultra processed foods are likely more harmful than not in appreciable amounts.
Meat/animal products and vegetables are the nutritious parts of the meal.
Bread, grains and starches are filler foods - if calories need to be reduced this is where you cut down.
Sugar should be limited - if calories need to be reduced this is what you cut out.
Don't snack.
Be active.
Go outside. Fresh air and sunshine are necessary for good health.
Go to bed.3
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