The Nutritarian Lifestyle for Health
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Not much we can do about aging, nutritarian diet or not. Lots of countries out there with low access to "Refined grains, processed foods, and meats" that haven't uncovered the fountain of youth.
Not true. It does accelerate aging and cancers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4095988/
Directly from the abstract of your study:Studies in mammals have led to the suggestion that hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia are important factors in aging.
You can include your "antithesis" foods without inducing hyperglycemia/hyperinsulinemia. Diabetes is a medical condition that is obviously going to take a toll on your health in more ways than one, especially when paired with obesity, sedentary lifestyle, and poor diet.
However, you can maintain a balanced diet and healthy weight while still including refined grains, meat, and processed foods. The key is understanding dosage and context and finding a balance that works for you.
The mammals in the study did not have hyperglycemia. Every time you eat the 'antithesis ' foods, you rev up those genes and hormones. Moderation kills.
Btw, what's moderation? It's very subjective, and will change depending on who you talk to. People are terrible at being moderate if our health crisis is any indication.
Moderation as usually used on these forums means meeting your nutrient goals with mostly nutrient-dense foods while incorporating foods that you enjoy without exceeding your calorie goals. If you're doing it this way, it's hard to overeat any one thing to the point that it impacts your health.
If you're maintaining an overall healthy diet, having a Twinkie once in a while will not hurt anything, nor will a beer, a cookie, a glass of wine, a frozen mac & cheese - you get the idea.
It is clear that with the obesity epidemic that people are bad at moderating intake, but that includes intake of all foods.
Vilifying a certain food or food group is just not rational. Overall intake needs to be monitored for both weight and health.
I just don't know many people who are moderate. Most people don't even eat enough vegetables and fruits.
Im not interested in merely slowing disease, rather, nutritional excellence.
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Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
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Surely this is only regurgitating (and charging for) knowing what we've always known for hundreds of years? Prior to the industrial revolution and the evolution of processing, canning and other methods of food preservation and development; we always ate foods which were fibre-rich and by proxy unprocessed. Grains were in their natural form, rather than bleached and refined and sugars were derived from natural sources rather than again being refined. We're lucky to live in an age where we can choose the way in which we eat. I believe that eating whole foods with minimal processing (don't forget cooking a product itself is a form of processing as it changes the natural state of the ingredient and therefore the micronutrient properties) is the optimal way to eat, although living in the modern age with time constraints, economic pressures and the acclimatisation of modern taste towards more sugary foods all affects our ability to do so. I'm very much a believer of the philosophy that health begins and ends with diet. Of course, there are many many other factors affecting individuals becoming ill - heredity and environmental factors to name a few but equally health can be improved and maintained if an individuals diet is healthy and comprised of 'real' sources of food.1
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illyasHodrick wrote: »The glycemic index.
The American public.
The glycemic index is bunk and only holds true if you eat a particular food by itself - it does not take into account the effect of combining foods and consuming them together. How many times do you eat a single food entity (like bread) as your whole meal?
As to Dr Fuhrman - I was looking at the webpage that describes his diet and the book that goes with it and stopped at the quote 'Detoxifying your body' - nope, don't need any more woo peddlers around here.3 -
illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Not much we can do about aging, nutritarian diet or not. Lots of countries out there with low access to "Refined grains, processed foods, and meats" that haven't uncovered the fountain of youth.
Not true. It does accelerate aging and cancers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4095988/
Directly from the abstract of your study:Studies in mammals have led to the suggestion that hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia are important factors in aging.
You can include your "antithesis" foods without inducing hyperglycemia/hyperinsulinemia. Diabetes is a medical condition that is obviously going to take a toll on your health in more ways than one, especially when paired with obesity, sedentary lifestyle, and poor diet.
However, you can maintain a balanced diet and healthy weight while still including refined grains, meat, and processed foods. The key is understanding dosage and context and finding a balance that works for you.
The mammals in the study did not have hyperglycemia. Every time you eat the 'antithesis ' foods, you rev up those genes and hormones. Moderation kills.
Btw, what's moderation? It's very subjective, and will change depending on who you talk to. People are terrible at being moderate if our health crisis is any indication.
Moderation as usually used on these forums means meeting your nutrient goals with mostly nutrient-dense foods while incorporating foods that you enjoy without exceeding your calorie goals. If you're doing it this way, it's hard to overeat any one thing to the point that it impacts your health.
If you're maintaining an overall healthy diet, having a Twinkie once in a while will not hurt anything, nor will a beer, a cookie, a glass of wine, a frozen mac & cheese - you get the idea.
It is clear that with the obesity epidemic that people are bad at moderating intake, but that includes intake of all foods.
Vilifying a certain food or food group is just not rational. Overall intake needs to be monitored for both weight and health.
I just don't know many people who are moderate. Most people don't even eat enough vegetables and fruits.
Im not interested in merely slowing disease, rather, nutritional excellence.
"nutritional excellence"
I wish you luck on your path to finding the perfect diet.
I'll enjoy my occasional indulgence, since none of us are getting out of this world alive.4 -
illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Not much we can do about aging, nutritarian diet or not. Lots of countries out there with low access to "Refined grains, processed foods, and meats" that haven't uncovered the fountain of youth.
Not true. It does accelerate aging and cancers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4095988/
Directly from the abstract of your study:Studies in mammals have led to the suggestion that hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia are important factors in aging.
You can include your "antithesis" foods without inducing hyperglycemia/hyperinsulinemia. Diabetes is a medical condition that is obviously going to take a toll on your health in more ways than one, especially when paired with obesity, sedentary lifestyle, and poor diet.
However, you can maintain a balanced diet and healthy weight while still including refined grains, meat, and processed foods. The key is understanding dosage and context and finding a balance that works for you.
The mammals in the study did not have hyperglycemia. Every time you eat the 'antithesis ' foods, you rev up those genes and hormones. Moderation kills.
Btw, what's moderation? It's very subjective, and will change depending on who you talk to. People are terrible at being moderate if our health crisis is any indication.
The SAD is anything but moderation.
My diet consists primarily of whole foods and I cook most of my meals using scratch, whole ingredients or minimally processed food goods like canned tomatoes, etc...I usually take my boys out for pizza on Saturdays after their soccer and football games...ie moderation. Eating pizza every single day...not moderation.
I generally take in around 4-6 servings of veg daily...a serving or two of fruit...lentils and legumes, oats, whole food starches like potatoes and sweet potatoes and other root vegetables are staples...I eat mostly fish and chicken as "meat" goes, etc, etc, etc...I think I'll be ok taking the fam out for pizza once a week and having my ice cream on Friday night movie night.1 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »"nutritional excellence"
I wish you luck on your path to finding the perfect diet.
I'll enjoy my occasional indulgence, since none of us are getting out of this world alive.
More like "woo excellence". Or, in the context of your image, "Woah, excellent!"
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illyasHodrick wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Not much we can do about aging, nutritarian diet or not. Lots of countries out there with low access to "Refined grains, processed foods, and meats" that haven't uncovered the fountain of youth.
Not true. It does accelerate aging and cancers.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4095988/
Directly from the abstract of your study:Studies in mammals have led to the suggestion that hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia are important factors in aging.
You can include your "antithesis" foods without inducing hyperglycemia/hyperinsulinemia. Diabetes is a medical condition that is obviously going to take a toll on your health in more ways than one, especially when paired with obesity, sedentary lifestyle, and poor diet.
However, you can maintain a balanced diet and healthy weight while still including refined grains, meat, and processed foods. The key is understanding dosage and context and finding a balance that works for you.
The mammals in the study did not have hyperglycemia. Every time you eat the 'antithesis ' foods, you rev up those genes and hormones. Moderation kills.
Btw, what's moderation? It's very subjective, and will change depending on who you talk to. People are terrible at being moderate if our health crisis is any indication.
The glycemic index.
The American public.
People eat too much and don't move enough. It has nothing to do with anything else. You don't start a movement, get a creepy logo and sell books with that philosophy though.4 -
illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
My latest blood test results (October) put my total cholesterol at a 143, HDL at 55, LDL at 84 and my cholesterol/HDL ratio came in at a 2.6 (anything under 5.0 is considered optimal). I'm at a very low risk for heart disease/heart attack.
Also-my glucose level was at a 95, which is in the normal range (it used to be much higher and I was labeled a prediabetic back before my weight loss), blood pressure was 102/74, waist circumference a 25 (taken by a medical professional) and a bmi of 21.
I no longer have any medical conditions, don't take any medications, my doctor is very pleased with where I'm at with all my health markers and I'm also one of the very few people who are successfully maintaining weight loss long term.
I refuse to live my life in fear of all the 'maybes'/'what ifs'. I'm in good physical health, have a healthy relationship with food, have a healthy outlook towards life/good mental health and I'm enjoying the way I eat. I have no need or desire to change anything
edited for typo3 -
illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol8 -
If you think about it, Dr. Fuhrman doesn't take it far enough. Anything that has been cooked is processed, it doesn't have the same micronutrient levels, so if you truly want to be healthy, you shouldn't eat cooked food. Also, fish is out of the question--have you heard about those mercury levels? And inorganic produce is full of pesticides; that will definitely give you cancer. On the other hand, organic produce doesn't use pesticides, so it has all sorts of problems with insects and other issues--a ripe opportunity for gaining diseases and parasites. So now that I'm thinking about it, if we want to be healthy, we definitely should not eat vegetables. And of course sugar is completely evil (substitute sugars even more so--talk about processing!), and since fruit is just full of sugar, we should definitely not have fruit even more so than anything else. Of course, like meats, animal products (lactose and eggs) are out of the question due to growth hormones (and the farms that say they don't use growth hormones lie all the time, so . . . ), and nuts/legumes have all the same issues as plant products. As a result, if you really want to be healthy, then your safest bet is water. Unless you live in Flint, MI, of course.
Obviously (I hope) I am being facetious, however, the point does somewhat remain. We have a plethora of food to choose from in the US, which means we have to make decisions about what is healthy, what is not. As long as we are doing that, there will be people claiming this is healthy, that is the devil. I believe that moderation really is key here. As illyasHoderick pointed out, moderation looks different to different people, but that is precisely the point. People are different: moderation is going to look different for all of us. What the large part of western culture currently practices is not moderation, it's "follow your heart . . . eat as much as you want." Moderation is balancing nutrition and livability, and that looks different for me from my husband (he is all for those Friday night pizzas. Me, not so much right now). There is no food, however, that will be absolutely evil for everyone. I'm not saying fries and a milkshake is good for you, but fries and a milkshake budgeted into an overall nutritious diet is much healthier than not enjoying food, or holding such tight reins on food that binging can result.4 -
Antithesis, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.1
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crzycatlady1 wrote: »Also, Dr. Fuhrman charges people money just to get access to many of the things on his website, which is 'interesting'. I have read his book though, which I borrowed from the library, and yeah-not impressed
Oh, it's Fuhrman. That explains it. :rolleyes: He's right up there with Taubes, Lustig, Mercola and Dr. Oz on the woo, pseudoscience and fearmongering hierarchy.2 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Also, Dr. Fuhrman charges people money just to get access to many of the things on his website, which is 'interesting'. I have read his book though, which I borrowed from the library, and yeah-not impressed
Oh, it's Fuhrman. That explains it. :rolleyes: He's right up there with Taubes, Lustig, Mercola and Dr. Oz on the woo, pseudoscience and fearmongering hierarchy.
Psuedoscience ? Only If over hundreds of cited peer reviewed clinical data is. Again, I don't see how preaching optimum health is fear mongering. Though, America in it's current condition, could do with a little fear. Just because he, and others are teaching something so contrary to many peoples lifestyle, doesn't make it fear mongering. You don't get to say that just because it makes you uncomfortable. People like to hear good news about their bad habits.
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CaladriaNapea wrote: »If you think about it, Dr. Fuhrman doesn't take it far enough. Anything that has been cooked is processed, it doesn't have the same micronutrient levels, so if you truly want to be healthy, you shouldn't eat cooked food. Also, fish is out of the question--have you heard about those mercury levels? And inorganic produce is full of pesticides; that will definitely give you cancer. On the other hand, organic produce doesn't use pesticides, so it has all sorts of problems with insects and other issues--a ripe opportunity for gaining diseases and parasites. So now that I'm thinking about it, if we want to be healthy, we definitely should not eat vegetables. And of course sugar is completely evil (substitute sugars even more so--talk about processing!), and since fruit is just full of sugar, we should definitely not have fruit even more so than anything else. Of course, like meats, animal products (lactose and eggs) are out of the question due to growth hormones (and the farms that say they don't use growth hormones lie all the time, so . . . ), and nuts/legumes have all the same issues as plant products. As a result, if you really want to be healthy, then your safest bet is water. Unless you live in Flint, MI, of course.
Obviously (I hope) I am being facetious, however, the point does somewhat remain. We have a plethora of food to choose from in the US, which means we have to make decisions about what is healthy, what is not. As long as we are doing that, there will be people claiming this is healthy, that is the devil. I believe that moderation really is key here. As illyasHoderick pointed out, moderation looks different to different people, but that is precisely the point. People are different: moderation is going to look different for all of us. What the large part of western culture currently practices is not moderation, it's "follow your heart . . . eat as much as you want." Moderation is balancing nutrition and livability, and that looks different for me from my husband (he is all for those Friday night pizzas. Me, not so much right now). There is no food, however, that will be absolutely evil for everyone. I'm not saying fries and a milkshake is good for you, but fries and a milkshake budgeted into an overall nutritious diet is much healthier than not enjoying food, or holding such tight reins on food that binging can result.
Unfortunately, there are no long term studies to prove this moderation thing has no significant detrimental effects , so on what basis are people justifying this moderation thing? . But I do know that every time you eat overly processed foods ,you damage your endothelial cells, which contribute to heart disease.
Cite me hundreds of studies of the, effects of ' processes kale ' on producing cancer,disease and parasites, and I can look at your previous point as something other than a, red Herring.
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Define "health" from your prospective? What if someone is anemic? Meats won't help them? Refined grains nutrition doesn't differ much from grains that aren't. Many "processed" foods (like frozen vegetables) may have a higher nutrient value than those transported from state to state or location to location, not including shelf time.illyasHodrick wrote: »I think his approach is the best paradigm of what we should be eating for optimal health. Foods high in micrinutrients,anti oxidants, fiber, low growth hormones . Refined grains, processed foods, and meats are the antithesis of that.
https://youtu.be/RwF3BfbZdLU
There are many countries that eat ALL of the above and don't have the health issues that America has.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So in other words this plan works for you.illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I include all of that in my diet.
Even the antitheses, in moderation.
Works for me.
I have a very all or nothing personality. I can't have any of that stuff in my house or I'll eat it. I have had far more success setting that boundary in the past year than I have had with moderation. My taste buds can't handle how jazzed up most foods are now.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
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No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thats what I just said. Processed Sugar and oils are in many ways the same.I didn't know she, did drugs but I think it all contrubuted to her death. Are you sayibg it was just the drugs? Millions die of diet induced heart failure, not drugs.
The Japanese? I read somewhere that they have, experienced, the biggest percent decrease in life expectancy recently . Could it be because of all the, kfcs and other western customs they have now?0
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