The Nutritarian Lifestyle for Health
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If you think about it, Dr. Fuhrman doesn't take it far enough. Anything that has been cooked is processed, it doesn't have the same micronutrient levels, so if you truly want to be healthy, you shouldn't eat cooked food. Also, fish is out of the question--have you heard about those mercury levels? And inorganic produce is full of pesticides; that will definitely give you cancer. On the other hand, organic produce doesn't use pesticides, so it has all sorts of problems with insects and other issues--a ripe opportunity for gaining diseases and parasites. So now that I'm thinking about it, if we want to be healthy, we definitely should not eat vegetables. And of course sugar is completely evil (substitute sugars even more so--talk about processing!), and since fruit is just full of sugar, we should definitely not have fruit even more so than anything else. Of course, like meats, animal products (lactose and eggs) are out of the question due to growth hormones (and the farms that say they don't use growth hormones lie all the time, so . . . ), and nuts/legumes have all the same issues as plant products. As a result, if you really want to be healthy, then your safest bet is water. Unless you live in Flint, MI, of course.
Obviously (I hope) I am being facetious, however, the point does somewhat remain. We have a plethora of food to choose from in the US, which means we have to make decisions about what is healthy, what is not. As long as we are doing that, there will be people claiming this is healthy, that is the devil. I believe that moderation really is key here. As illyasHoderick pointed out, moderation looks different to different people, but that is precisely the point. People are different: moderation is going to look different for all of us. What the large part of western culture currently practices is not moderation, it's "follow your heart . . . eat as much as you want." Moderation is balancing nutrition and livability, and that looks different for me from my husband (he is all for those Friday night pizzas. Me, not so much right now). There is no food, however, that will be absolutely evil for everyone. I'm not saying fries and a milkshake is good for you, but fries and a milkshake budgeted into an overall nutritious diet is much healthier than not enjoying food, or holding such tight reins on food that binging can result.4 -
Antithesis, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.1
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crzycatlady1 wrote: »Also, Dr. Fuhrman charges people money just to get access to many of the things on his website, which is 'interesting'. I have read his book though, which I borrowed from the library, and yeah-not impressed
Oh, it's Fuhrman. That explains it. :rolleyes: He's right up there with Taubes, Lustig, Mercola and Dr. Oz on the woo, pseudoscience and fearmongering hierarchy.2 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Also, Dr. Fuhrman charges people money just to get access to many of the things on his website, which is 'interesting'. I have read his book though, which I borrowed from the library, and yeah-not impressed
Oh, it's Fuhrman. That explains it. :rolleyes: He's right up there with Taubes, Lustig, Mercola and Dr. Oz on the woo, pseudoscience and fearmongering hierarchy.
Psuedoscience ? Only If over hundreds of cited peer reviewed clinical data is. Again, I don't see how preaching optimum health is fear mongering. Though, America in it's current condition, could do with a little fear. Just because he, and others are teaching something so contrary to many peoples lifestyle, doesn't make it fear mongering. You don't get to say that just because it makes you uncomfortable. People like to hear good news about their bad habits.
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CaladriaNapea wrote: »If you think about it, Dr. Fuhrman doesn't take it far enough. Anything that has been cooked is processed, it doesn't have the same micronutrient levels, so if you truly want to be healthy, you shouldn't eat cooked food. Also, fish is out of the question--have you heard about those mercury levels? And inorganic produce is full of pesticides; that will definitely give you cancer. On the other hand, organic produce doesn't use pesticides, so it has all sorts of problems with insects and other issues--a ripe opportunity for gaining diseases and parasites. So now that I'm thinking about it, if we want to be healthy, we definitely should not eat vegetables. And of course sugar is completely evil (substitute sugars even more so--talk about processing!), and since fruit is just full of sugar, we should definitely not have fruit even more so than anything else. Of course, like meats, animal products (lactose and eggs) are out of the question due to growth hormones (and the farms that say they don't use growth hormones lie all the time, so . . . ), and nuts/legumes have all the same issues as plant products. As a result, if you really want to be healthy, then your safest bet is water. Unless you live in Flint, MI, of course.
Obviously (I hope) I am being facetious, however, the point does somewhat remain. We have a plethora of food to choose from in the US, which means we have to make decisions about what is healthy, what is not. As long as we are doing that, there will be people claiming this is healthy, that is the devil. I believe that moderation really is key here. As illyasHoderick pointed out, moderation looks different to different people, but that is precisely the point. People are different: moderation is going to look different for all of us. What the large part of western culture currently practices is not moderation, it's "follow your heart . . . eat as much as you want." Moderation is balancing nutrition and livability, and that looks different for me from my husband (he is all for those Friday night pizzas. Me, not so much right now). There is no food, however, that will be absolutely evil for everyone. I'm not saying fries and a milkshake is good for you, but fries and a milkshake budgeted into an overall nutritious diet is much healthier than not enjoying food, or holding such tight reins on food that binging can result.
Unfortunately, there are no long term studies to prove this moderation thing has no significant detrimental effects , so on what basis are people justifying this moderation thing? . But I do know that every time you eat overly processed foods ,you damage your endothelial cells, which contribute to heart disease.
Cite me hundreds of studies of the, effects of ' processes kale ' on producing cancer,disease and parasites, and I can look at your previous point as something other than a, red Herring.
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Define "health" from your prospective? What if someone is anemic? Meats won't help them? Refined grains nutrition doesn't differ much from grains that aren't. Many "processed" foods (like frozen vegetables) may have a higher nutrient value than those transported from state to state or location to location, not including shelf time.illyasHodrick wrote: »I think his approach is the best paradigm of what we should be eating for optimal health. Foods high in micrinutrients,anti oxidants, fiber, low growth hormones . Refined grains, processed foods, and meats are the antithesis of that.
https://youtu.be/RwF3BfbZdLU
There are many countries that eat ALL of the above and don't have the health issues that America has.
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So in other words this plan works for you.illyasHodrick wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »I include all of that in my diet.
Even the antitheses, in moderation.
Works for me.
I have a very all or nothing personality. I can't have any of that stuff in my house or I'll eat it. I have had far more success setting that boundary in the past year than I have had with moderation. My taste buds can't handle how jazzed up most foods are now.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
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No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No drugs come from plants after isolating the them from other compounds in the plant. And are you kidding? You don't think that alcohol and drug abuse weren't the major contributors to her death and blame it more on sugar and processed foods? Lol, Japanese are doomed then.........................oh wait they have long lifespans and less health issues than many other countries.illyasHodrick wrote: »
Drugs are plants. Just hyper concentrated. Much like sugar and processed foods. They have similar effects. Forget Carrie though, there are milions who die from heart attacks in their 50s who don't do drugs.extra_medium wrote: »illyasHodrick wrote: »
Carrie Fisher didn't have her heart attack until later; it's long term.crzycatlady1 wrote: »Meh, I'm in optimal health and I eat all sorts of 'processed' foods, as well as meat. I'm very happy with how I eat and I'm in excellent health with a bmi of around 21. I'm doing things in a way that's been sustainable for almost 4 years now and will continue to be sustainable for the next 40
And we assume that was mainly due to the fact that she may have eaten processed foods rather than her well documented, self-admitted, decades long struggle with drugs and alcohol
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thats what I just said. Processed Sugar and oils are in many ways the same.I didn't know she, did drugs but I think it all contrubuted to her death. Are you sayibg it was just the drugs? Millions die of diet induced heart failure, not drugs.
The Japanese? I read somewhere that they have, experienced, the biggest percent decrease in life expectancy recently . Could it be because of all the, kfcs and other western customs they have now?0 -
illyasHodrick wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »Also, Dr. Fuhrman charges people money just to get access to many of the things on his website, which is 'interesting'. I have read his book though, which I borrowed from the library, and yeah-not impressed
Oh, it's Fuhrman. That explains it. :rolleyes: He's right up there with Taubes, Lustig, Mercola and Dr. Oz on the woo, pseudoscience and fearmongering hierarchy.
Psuedoscience ? Only If over hundreds of cited peer reviewed clinical data is. Again, I don't see how preaching optimum health is fear mongering. Though, America in it's current condition, could do with a little fear. Just because he, and others are teaching something so contrary to many peoples lifestyle, doesn't make it fear mongering. You don't get to say that just because it makes you uncomfortable. People like to hear good news about their bad habits.
Actually IMO the problem with Fuhrman (and others who push restrictive diets) is that he would have it that the only alternative to the stereotypical SAD is his diet, and giving up tons of stuff, when you can eat much better by simply following the dietary guidelines (or Harvard's healthy plate) or by more generally making sure you get in what you need for a healthy diet, including plenty of veg, and not eating too much.
Even McDougall (who I'd classify as a guru diet peddler and fear monger too) is critical of Fuhrman's diet as not being consistent with how humans traditionally ate -- his point is that when you have a diet that's animal product free you need calories from somewhere and insisting they are all super nutrient dense sources isn't realistic and who knows how good that is for us, as most traditional diets get the bulk of calories from staple starches. (I'm not pro McDougall, but I do think looking at the diversity of traditional diets and that they don't require worrying about "nutrarianism" is key -- I'd align more with Pollan's sensible take on diet, myself.)3
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