Question: Starvation Mode, Why?

bchibdon
bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
edited November 15 in Health and Weight Loss
Hi Everyone,

So, I'm scientifically minded, and I like to understand the chemistry and other metabolic processes that are going on in weight loss. Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually a scientist or otherwise scientifically-educated, so I'm really coming from a zero-knowledge standpoint here.

That being said, I was wondering if anyone knows why our metabolism rates suffer so much if we "enter starvation mode" by eating less than our daily required calories every day? I'm stumped on this because I don't understand why we'd go into starvation mode when we have fat to burn. It seems counter-evolutionary.

How could our bodies magically (seemingly) decide to lessen the amount of calories needed to function due to "starvation mode" based on short-term eating changes? How would eating fewer calories than the daily requirement make the base metabolism suffer longterm?

Anyone have any ideas or articles they could link?
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Replies

  • bchibdon
    bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
    Karen,

    I'm leaning on that side myself. However, what lead you to believe this? Do you have any articles?

    Thanks for the input!
  • bchibdon
    bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
    edited January 2017
    Moved to bottom
  • bchibdon
    bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
    edited January 2017
    Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was looking for.

    So, I'm reading through the articles, but just to get a live back-and-forth here to deepen my understanding, why are very low calorie diets so demonized?

    For example, 900 calories a day for a 180 lb person, a person could lose as much weight as for however long they sustain that eating habit. However, if they were to get to 140 or so and decide that they'd like to maintain that weight, they'd just start eating the "minimum required calories" to maintain, and that would be that. Is that right?

    And, if so, what is metabolism and how/why is it affected?

    Also, what do you say to articles like this: https://healthyeater.com/eat-to-lose-weight
  • bchibdon
    bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
    edited January 2017
    Eating too low calories does not give your body the right nutrients it needs to run your basic functions... the less you give it the more its going to be forced to get it else where, its not just going to use your fat but it will also use your lean muscle mass.... lean muscle is what determines how many calories we burn over 24 hours... the less you have, the less calories you need... and a person who eats the typical calories it would take to maintain their new weight after losing their lean muscle would then gain weight easier then someone who lost weight at a normal healthy rate.

    Most low calorie diets are very difficult to maintain, so anyone now stuck with a lower BMR cause of lean muscle loss probably wouldn't be able to stick to their now lower calorie goal even if they used one short term for faster weight loss.

    Interesting point! However, as long as a person has fat to lose, why would their body burn instead lean muscle instead? What happens to a person working out and gaining new lean muscle? It's so confusing and seemingly contradictory.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    Understand that if VCLD were okay for everyone, there wouldn't be anorexia. And people die from it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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  • bchibdon
    bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    bchibdon wrote: »
    Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was looking for.

    So, I'm reading through the articles, but just to get a live back-and-forth here to deepen my understanding, why are very low calorie diets so demonized?

    For example, 900 calories a day for a 180 lb person, a person could lose as much weight as for however long they sustain that eating habit. However, if they were to get to 140 or so and decide that they'd like to maintain that weight, they'd just start eating the "minimum required calories" to maintain, and that would be that. Is that right?

    And, if so, what is metabolism and how/why is it affected?

    Speaking in general terms:

    1) Malnutrition. It's hard to have a well-rounded diet on such low calories and you can end up missing out on vital macro/micronutrients. That can have a lot of negative effects upon your entire body.

    2) Body composition. Without adequate protein intake, you increase the risk of losing excessive amounts of muscle along with the fat. This can result in you getting to your goal weight and discovering that you just look like a smaller version of what you were before - skinny, but still soft and flabby. In the vernacular it's referred to as "skinnyfat" - the medical term for it is MONW (Metabolically Obese, Normal Weight). It means that you can still suffer the medical issues associated with obesity even though you're at a "normal" or "healthy" weight because of an excessively high body fat percentage.

    3) Workout performance/fatigue. If you're not adequately fueling your workouts, your performance is going to suffer and you're going to feel tired, run down and more prone to injuries because your body can't recover properly without adequate "building materials" (nutrients).

    Great info here! That really clarifies the counter argument. However, looking at diets such as Paleo, where the diet is high protein, high veggie, and all around healthy, it seems like this type of lifestyle would be low in calories and high in nutrition. Would a person with this dietary habit still suffer lean muscle loss and malnutrition?

    Why I bring up any of this is because I'm committed to a vegetarian-based paleo diet. This diet is focused on protein rich foods, and 90 % veggies. I'm finding it really hard to go above 1000 calories a day with this diet. I'm worried about the long-term implications, as I really like what this diet is doing to my weight, skin, overall wellbeing.

    Thanks again for all the awesome insight!
  • PokeyBug
    PokeyBug Posts: 482 Member
    Unless a person is living in Burundi or is anorexic, I don't think starvation mode is going to be an issue.
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
    Simple. Eating very low calories makes it very difficult to get the nutrition your body needs. Your body needs certain proteins, fats, and micronutrients from your daily diet to support your normal bodily functions including cell repair, immune functions, synthesizing hormones, fertility, etc. Sustaining a very low calorie level for a period of time can lead to have dramatic health consequences.

    The guideline of 1200 cals/day for females and 1500 cals/day for males is intended as a minimum goal for the majority of the adult population. At that level, a person should be able to get all the nutrients needed to sustain a healthy weight loss.

    VLCDs are sometimes used under close medical supervision and support when a person needs to lose weight fast, such as in cases of a necessary surgical procedure where obesity is a risk factor. MFP discourages unsupervised VLCDs due to the risks and the potential for eating disorders among certain users.
  • bchibdon
    bchibdon Posts: 8 Member
    That's a great suggestion! I tried cashews to up my calories today and they were gross, but I could definitely do avocados.


    One last thing, what do you guys think about this article about starvation mode?
    https://healthyeater.com/eat-to-lose-weight
    medical paper: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199706193362507
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
    edited January 2017
    It's bunk.

    There is a thing called adaptive thermogenisis. Basically you move less and expend less energy if you're under eating, but it only slows down weight loss by a small amount. Measurable yes, but nowhere near what people claim when they talk about "starvation mode". The article is making that mistake.

    The NEJM article is behind a paywall, but it looks like it addresses endocrine changes when under eating, not "starvation mode" as is usually claimed in this site.
  • srk369
    srk369 Posts: 256 Member
    bchibdon wrote: »
    That's a great suggestion! I tried cashews to up my calories today and they were gross, but I could definitely do avocados.


    One last thing, what do you guys think about this article about starvation mode?
    https://healthyeater.com/eat-to-lose-weight
    medical paper: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199706193362507

    Search for cashew cheese recipes. There are some really cool ways to use cashews!
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    bchibdon wrote: »
    Eating too low calories does not give your body the right nutrients it needs to run your basic functions... the less you give it the more its going to be forced to get it else where, its not just going to use your fat but it will also use your lean muscle mass.... lean muscle is what determines how many calories we burn over 24 hours... the less you have, the less calories you need... and a person who eats the typical calories it would take to maintain their new weight after losing their lean muscle would then gain weight easier then someone who lost weight at a normal healthy rate.

    Most low calorie diets are very difficult to maintain, so anyone now stuck with a lower BMR cause of lean muscle loss probably wouldn't be able to stick to their now lower calorie goal even if they used one short term for faster weight loss.

    Interesting point! However, as long as a person has fat to lose, why would their body burn instead lean muscle instead? What happens to a person working out and gaining new lean muscle? It's so confusing and seemingly contradictory.

    Because your body can't make amino acids (which it needs) from fat. Since amino acids are protein, it has to get them from your muscles if not enough is taken in through your diet.

    As for gaining lean muscle, outside of newbie gains, this is incredibly difficult if possible when in a caloric deficit (you need extra calories for muscle building just like you do for fat storage).
  • red99ryder
    red99ryder Posts: 399 Member
    bchibdon wrote: »
    That's a great suggestion! I tried cashews to up my calories today and they were gross, but I could definitely do avocados.


    One last thing, what do you guys think about this article about starvation mode?
    https://healthyeater.com/eat-to-lose-weight
    medical paper: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199706193362507

    I read the eat to lose weight story ,, and he goes on to recommend 20 percent less than TDEE as a goal and that sounds about right .. i disagree on the story about the girl that couldnt lose weight at 1300 calories but could at a higher number of calories , why do those guys on Naked and afraid lose so much weight if eating less made you stop losing weight ,,, and yes we want to save as much LBM as possible so slow and steady is the best way IMOP

    Good luck
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    edited January 2017
    Losing weight on 900 calories wouldn't be a problem - apart from the obvious malnutrition - if 900 calories was all you had. But you are surrounded by delicious food 24/7. When you don't eat, you get hungry. When you are hungry, and there's food, you eat. When you haven't eaten enough for a while, you eat even more. Simples.

    ("Starvation mode" is basically just catering to people's vanity - nobody (who is overweight) likes to admit that they like food and are hungry.)
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