Do macros matter for CICO?
LittleDoodlePoodle
Posts: 154 Member
As long as I'm under my calorie goal for the day, does it matter that I don't hit my protein and leap frog over sugar goals? If CICO is correct, then I should still lose weight, yes? I don't go to bed hungry or anything, so it's not like I didn't have dinner because I wanted chocolate.
Will that really make a difference?
Will that really make a difference?
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Replies
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Macros matter if you have related medical issues or if your current mix isn't satisfying to you. Otherwise, you're good.
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In terms of weight loss for otherwise healthy individuals, macro differences will make no change for weight loss.
They can help with feeling full and satisfied longer making compliance to your calorie goal easier. They will not change the overall effect of one's calorie deficit.3 -
Thanks, guys. I've been indulging my sweet tooth daily and had a moment of panic. But I always exercise and make see my end of week calories are in the right range, even if I must have a red day every once in a while.1
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I don't look at my macros and I have never had trouble losing weight with CICO. If I have trouble pooping then I glance at my fiber and fat to see what's going on, lol.2
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Macros can change the CiCO numbers for some people but one still needs to be a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Protein, and fat to a lesser extent, is thermogenic which can increase CO. Those with insulin resistance may find CO is lowered if they eat a high carb diet. Macros can affect CI and CO but it isn't by a great deal. Only a few hundred kcals at the most - maybe a few pounds per year in difference.1 -
rileysowner wrote: »In terms of weight loss for otherwise healthy individuals, macro differences will make no change for weight loss.
They can help with feeling full and satisfied longer making compliance to your calorie goal easier. They will not change the overall effect of one's calorie deficit.
Perfectly stated. If macros mattered, it'd be called MIMO.
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I know you're all correct and that this is basically science and maths.
I'm just freaking out a bit as I have been doing CICO and not really losing weight as quick as I'd like and have been calculating for. It's been a month and I'm only down 2 pounds, but MFP set it for 1.3 a week.
I'm 5 foot 5 and was 162 pounds. Now 160.
I set my profile to sedentary so my calories is 1200 a day but I use a Fitbit and eat back some, but not all, of my steps.
I've had a few deviations and while they look bad on the day, my weekly average is still 1200 NET, often less.
I know females talk about having stagnant periods followed by a whoosh but if my whoosh is only one pound after 3 weeks, I'm just a bit bummed is all. I know I'm exerting myself as my LADY TIMES was delayed by over a week. So my body is reacting to my lifestyle changes, but not letting go of the chub.
Thoughts?
My main exercise is cardio, I hit 13000 steps a day, almost every day. I'm mixing in some HIIT cardio and Kayla's BBG (strength circuit HIIT) 3 days a week. I'm taking it easy exercise wise as I have a back injury and ankle injury, and was very sedentary. Hence why a lot of my cardio is just steps recorded and steady state walking, even though I do walk at an incline but I don't include that in the calorie-burn as I know is more likely to over estimate than under estimate. (I let the Fitbit estimate additional calories due to steps taken. I don't input my walks as cardio or use a HRM. I do have one but not too bothered to use it until I'm doing real exercise, versus just increasing my daily movement. According to online articles the increased burn in 6mph at 1% incline and 10% incline is small enough to maybe account for mis-weighed anomalies but it isn't enough to turn me into an Olympic athlete, i.e. Maybe an extra 10 calories per mile. Maybe.)
I made a thread after two weeks and was told to be patient. It's been 3 more weeks now (so 5 in total) and I'm tired of waiting and want answers. Which I know is petulant but if anyone can relate or impart some wisdom? I weigh all food. I don't forget a single drop. Including ketchup. If I'm ever a little uncertain, I over estimate the calories and under estimate the burn. For example, ordered a skinny vanilla latte. Lady announced she had a "vanilla latte". Wasn't sure if she actually made it skinny with skinny syrup or not. So input that it was just a vanilla latte. Had a few sips and then had to go back to work, so instead of saying I had 0.2 of a medium (when it was more like 0.2), I said 0.5 of a medium, even though that was over generous. I'm doing everything I can to be neurotic about my calories in, so I know that isn't the issue. So I'm wondering if it's quanlity as opposed to quantity.
I used to be on an antidepressant that severely slowed my metabolism while increasing my appetite. It's called seroxat, though I believe some call it Zoloft, etc. I've been off it for 6 months now though... so I should be back to normal BMMR.
HALP!0 -
Macros can change the CiCO numbers for some people but one still needs to be a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Protein, and fat to a lesser extent, is thermogenic which can increase CO. Those with insulin resistance may find CO is lowered if they eat a high carb diet. Macros can affect CI and CO but it isn't by a great deal. Only a few hundred kcals at the most - maybe a few pounds per year in difference.
So someone who is insulin resistant should eat less carbs to lose? I have not been diagnosed as such but I'm t more to get some blood tests done by the doctors just in case. I know I'm not starving myself, and I'm very comfortable in my food allowance, and yet definitely eating the correct amount, if not less occasionally. So I don't understand why I'm not seeing more changes.
Sorry if I'm coming across like I'm whining. It's just everyone I ask tells me I'm being too obsessive with the weighing etc, and yet I know you need to be obsessive in the beginning to get it right and build the habit. But it's difficult to hold momentum and motivation when you see no improvement.
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If you are losing slower than you expect either the CI or CO is off. This might help you trace things down.
If you are not using a kitchen scale (ideally digital) to weigh all solids including those grated and ground, you should. It can make a big difference to how accurate CI are.
https://youtu.be/vjKPIcI51lU 1 -
Add to this, with the amount you have to lose, it will likely be slow. Assuming you are confident with your numbers in terms of logging food, if you are eating back your calorie adjustment as well, then if you want to lose a little faster, eat back less of your calorie adjustments from fitbit.1
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I used to eat like you do. I really believe (and I have no peer reviewed studies, just me...) that when I eat too many carbs and not enough protein that my health, weight-loss and mental health suffer. There is a lot to be said for a healthy varied diet that's plant-heavy, lower carb (I try to stay under 140g) and sufficient protein. (I get 25-30%)
I would not have thought it would make such a difference, but it has. I am more able to stay below calories on a consistent basis, and my health tests are better than they've ever been. FWIW, I've been striving to hit macros for about four years now, and I've been at a healthy weight that whole time. I lost weight eating way too many carbs and sugars, but I was stubborn. Now I'm a believer.1 -
Macros matter for example, if you want to build muscle ,well in my case I try hard to hit my protein goal, and not to go over in carbs or not by too much, of course keeping the deficit.1
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LittleDoodlePoodle wrote: »Macros can change the CiCO numbers for some people but one still needs to be a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Protein, and fat to a lesser extent, is thermogenic which can increase CO. Those with insulin resistance may find CO is lowered if they eat a high carb diet. Macros can affect CI and CO but it isn't by a great deal. Only a few hundred kcals at the most - maybe a few pounds per year in difference.
So someone who is insulin resistant should eat less carbs to lose? I have not been diagnosed as such but I'm t more to get some blood tests done by the doctors just in case. I know I'm not starving myself, and I'm very comfortable in my food allowance, and yet definitely eating the correct amount, if not less occasionally. So I don't understand why I'm not seeing more changes.
Sorry if I'm coming across like I'm whining. It's just everyone I ask tells me I'm being too obsessive with the weighing etc, and yet I know you need to be obsessive in the beginning to get it right and build the habit. But it's difficult to hold momentum and motivation when you see no improvement.
There are a lot of people who do feel that people with IR should cut carbs, but there used to be a user on this site who didn't do anything special with carbs who was IR, and she lost just fine. She knew herself, knew she wouldn't be satisfied cutting carbs, and didn't need to.
She lost 80 some odd pounds and also was no longer IR when she was finished losing weight.
I would caution you not to go too low on protein at the expense of fitting in your treats, though. Dieters need extra protein to guard against loss of muscle tissue while eating in a deficit. The recommended amount of protein intake is already too low. You should be eating .6 - .8 grams of protein per pound of a healthy body weight in protein a day.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »LittleDoodlePoodle wrote: »Macros can change the CiCO numbers for some people but one still needs to be a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Protein, and fat to a lesser extent, is thermogenic which can increase CO. Those with insulin resistance may find CO is lowered if they eat a high carb diet. Macros can affect CI and CO but it isn't by a great deal. Only a few hundred kcals at the most - maybe a few pounds per year in difference.
So someone who is insulin resistant should eat less carbs to lose? I have not been diagnosed as such but I'm t more to get some blood tests done by the doctors just in case. I know I'm not starving myself, and I'm very comfortable in my food allowance, and yet definitely eating the correct amount, if not less occasionally. So I don't understand why I'm not seeing more changes.
Sorry if I'm coming across like I'm whining. It's just everyone I ask tells me I'm being too obsessive with the weighing etc, and yet I know you need to be obsessive in the beginning to get it right and build the habit. But it's difficult to hold momentum and motivation when you see no improvement.
There are a lot of people who do feel that people with IR should cut carbs, but there used to be a user on this site who didn't do anything special with carbs who was IR, and she lost just fine. She knew herself, knew she wouldn't be satisfied cutting carbs, and didn't need to.
She lost 80 some odd pounds and also was no longer IR when she was finished losing weight.
I would caution you not to go too low on protein at the expense of fitting in your treats, though. Dieters need extra protein to guard against loss of muscle tissue while eating in a deficit. The recommended amount of protein intake is already too low. You should be eating .6 - .8 grams of protein per pound of a healthy body weight in protein a day.
See, what you're saying makes sense, and contradicts some people's personal experience, but everything is personal, isn't it?
Part of me wonders if I have a very low metabolism as I have been VERY sedentary for a long time, due to multiple injuries. And laziness. So maybe my body has a low BMMR, due to lack of muscle? I'm not masssively overweight, so I'm wondering if maybe there is a very high body fat/ very low muscle mass situation going on, that means I'm low metabolically.
I just checked my net average for the last 7 days and it was just under 800. My goal is 1200. Granted I just haven't been feeling hungry, and also working out. Female Shark Week I am always less hungry, and a lot of my weight issues stems from eating due to boredom, as well as not moving enough. I don't want to make myself eat when I'm not actually hungry, though I feel like I should obviously be netting more than 800 a day, and also be hungry at this low a level net? But then I'm also confused as to why I have been under eating and still not losing weight... could it be a low BMMR and this is my actual calorie level? I'm set at 1.3 lbs lost a week, for a refresher.
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rileysowner wrote: »Add to this, with the amount you have to lose, it will likely be slow. Assuming you are confident with your numbers in terms of logging food, if you are eating back your calorie adjustment as well, then if you want to lose a little faster, eat back less of your calorie adjustments from fitbit.
I meant to also quote you in the above reply.... if you could read and give me your opinion? I know I'm under eating, and I don't always. Ive just had a low mood this week and combined hormones meant zero appetite. But even at a lower BMI I should see a difference in actual weight, at this level of calories, right?
Also, is that you in the video? It was very helpful. Thank you. It is from videos like that I have gained the confidence to realise that I needed to be more accurate with food weighing and is part of the reason why I am certain I am being accurate in that aspect.
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LittleDoodlePoodle wrote: »rileysowner wrote: »Add to this, with the amount you have to lose, it will likely be slow. Assuming you are confident with your numbers in terms of logging food, if you are eating back your calorie adjustment as well, then if you want to lose a little faster, eat back less of your calorie adjustments from fitbit.
I meant to also quote you in the above reply.... if you could read and give me your opinion? I know I'm under eating, and I don't always. Ive just had a low mood this week and combined hormones meant zero appetite. But even at a lower BMI I should see a difference in actual weight, at this level of calories, right?
Also, is that you in the video? It was very helpful. Thank you. It is from videos like that I have gained the confidence to realise that I needed to be more accurate with food weighing and is part of the reason why I am certain I am being accurate in that aspect.
The vast majority of people who think they have a slow metabolism don't actually have a slow metabolism. Assuming you have been tested recently for things like Thyroid function, I would saw the issue lies somewhere else.
As to the not eating when not hungry, if you are someone who has struggled with being over weight for a long time realize you satiation interpretation probably sucks. I have struggled with weight my whole life, and it was only realizing that my hunger/full sensations are completely messed up that made me realize I should eat the calories I am supposed to whether feeling hungry or not in hopes that over the years my body/brain will start to understand when I am actually full. I have encountered many people who struggle with the same thing, and my advice to them is the same I give you, eat all your base calories, and probably half your exercise calories; or switch to a TDEE method where you figure out your TDEE which would include your intended exercise calories (http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/) and eat those calories every day not eating exercise calories back. In your case nothing bigger than a 10-15% deficit off TDEE would probably be good.
Again, make sure your logging is as accurate is you can make it. Just a quick scan through the past few days I see measurements of things like butter by the tablespoon, and bread by the slice. When I say weigh all solids, I mean weigh all solids. I would suggest even weighing those pre-packaged foods since you are at a point where accuracy is vital. I know it seems like a real pain, but I have had pre-packaged single serving foods that have been as much as 2 servings worth when weighed. I don't have time at the moment to look at your diary further sadly. If you cannot find entries for foods you are eating in grams, make new ones. Interestingly, those McDonald's meals are probably closer calorie wise to what they say they are than many of the pre-packaged stuff.0 -
I was hearing last night that muscle uses more to keep it going, even at rest. The implication is that if one gets their act together and overcomes our lethargy and did some resistance work, bands and the like to build muscle our metabolisms would speed up, over time, as your balance changes.
Achieving a hypothyroid diagnosis is not all its cracked up to be. I for one have not been helped by our NHS approach and had to go outside to get my life back. In the same programme, as the above, "trust me I'm a doctor", they were saying the NHS is being charged around £300 for two months supply of t3 when it cost only pence to produce. And internationally there is no consensus for effective treatment anyway. So that's why t4 is all that is available! Its all too complicated, t3 balance effects every cell, for a one size fits all response.0 -
I was hearing last night that muscle uses more to keep it going, even at rest. The implication is that if one gets their act together and overcomes our lethargy and did some resistance work, bands and the like to build muscle our metabolisms would speed up, over time, as your balance changes.
Achieving a hypothyroid diagnosis is not all its cracked up to be. I for one have not been helped by our NHS approach and had to go outside to get my life back. In the same programme, as the above, "trust me I'm a doctor", they were saying the NHS is being charged around £300 for two months supply of t3 when it cost only pence to produce. And internationally there is no consensus for effective treatment anyway. So that's why t4 is all that is available! Its all too complicated, t3 balance effects every cell, for a one size fits all response.
For every lb of muscle you gain, you burn a whopping 4-6 calories extra a day. So you really need to build a substantial amount to have a noticeable impact.
OP, you may want to try modifying your macros to see if that improves things. Protein, which is typically very low for you, can probably be increased to around 100-120g (this will also help with muscle recovery). I would also consider seeing as you are fairly active, to increase calories to about 1500 to see if there is any difference. I know when I cut calories aggressively I didn't see the results that I did when I was eating 2300 (previously 1800). What I found, is that I was able to increase other components and improve exercise which enabled me to be in a consistent deficit.1 -
Macros can change the CiCO numbers for some people but one still needs to be a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Protein, and fat to a lesser extent, is thermogenic which can increase CO. Those with insulin resistance may find CO is lowered if they eat a high carb diet. Macros can affect CI and CO but it isn't by a great deal. Only a few hundred kcals at the most - maybe a few pounds per year in difference.
For Thermal Effect of Food, protein is ~ 20-30%, carbs 5-6%, and fats 1-2%. I would agree, depending on the severity of insulin resistance, lowering carbs can be very beneficial. Like others stated, not everyone needs to drop carbs much (and I think the reference was a type II diabetic), but many do see improvements in weight loss when carbs are dropped, protein is moderate and fats are higher.0 -
I agree about eating more, or more accurately, having a smaller deficit. Try thinking of food as fuel for your activity. Eating more may give you better energy for both day to day activity and for getting in good exercise. The other suggestion I will give is do the little things that increase NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) like parking at further out parking spots, taking stairs, walking to nearby locations. While it doesn't add huge amounts to your daily burn, it adds up over time.0
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LittleDoodlePoodle wrote: »Macros can change the CiCO numbers for some people but one still needs to be a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Protein, and fat to a lesser extent, is thermogenic which can increase CO. Those with insulin resistance may find CO is lowered if they eat a high carb diet. Macros can affect CI and CO but it isn't by a great deal. Only a few hundred kcals at the most - maybe a few pounds per year in difference.
So someone who is insulin resistant should eat less carbs to lose? I have not been diagnosed as such but I'm t more to get some blood tests done by the doctors just in case. I know I'm not starving myself, and I'm very comfortable in my food allowance, and yet definitely eating the correct amount, if not less occasionally. So I don't understand why I'm not seeing more changes.
Sorry if I'm coming across like I'm whining. It's just everyone I ask tells me I'm being too obsessive with the weighing etc, and yet I know you need to be obsessive in the beginning to get it right and build the habit. But it's difficult to hold momentum and motivation when you see no improvement.
Someone who is insulin will probably help their health by eating fewer carbs, especially the highly processed and refined carbs. High carbs can lead to high BG for those with IR.
Carbs raise insulin and those of us who are insulin resistance have too much insulin. Insulin is a growth hormone and can cause weight gain. T1Ds will see this if they are using high levels of insulin - they may even get pockets of fat at a specific site if they always use that spot for insulin injections. Many with IR find that when they lower carbs it becomes much easier to lose weight (due to a number of possible factors like appetite suppression or more balanced hormones) and they may even lose weight at a higher caloric intake than they have in the past.
If you are interested in LCHF diets to treat IR, I recommend Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. It's a great book. It was a life changer for me.0
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