Testosterone Therapy
donjtomasco
Posts: 790 Member
I had posted about getting stronger during my calorie deficit, and it is an ongoing debate in this forum. There were some interesting comments about testosterone therapy or something along those lines. Interestingly more, I just saw this article in Google News today which some might find interesting. Personally, if I was in my 70's (I am almost 55), this might be interesting to throw caution to the wind, maybe, but maybe not. Regardless, I am not in my 70's, and hearing news stories like this make me glad that I am for now opting for natural weight loss and natural strength training.
I would love anyones thoughts on this news article/video. I have seen this old guy, not knowing he was a doc, in magazine ads for years, and I can't fault him for what he is doing, although I might have faulted him if he has been doing this for many many many years. Maybe my late 70's or in my 80's I might think 'what the heck, let's roll the dice', but not now, not till there is pure scientific trial results showing the long term safety.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/21/health/testosterone-therapy-study/
I would love anyones thoughts on this news article/video. I have seen this old guy, not knowing he was a doc, in magazine ads for years, and I can't fault him for what he is doing, although I might have faulted him if he has been doing this for many many many years. Maybe my late 70's or in my 80's I might think 'what the heck, let's roll the dice', but not now, not till there is pure scientific trial results showing the long term safety.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/21/health/testosterone-therapy-study/
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I'm a couple of years older than you OP and am glad I opted for natural all the way after hearing that. One of the primary reasons I've gone the way I have is one bad experience with a supplement (not exactly the same I know) highlighted the brutal fact that I just don't know enough to make a really informed call on these "miracle" fixes for lack of a better term.
So here I am, lower T maybe, but alive, kicking and happy lol.0 -
As we age, hormone production naturally decreases. Now theoretically, if those hormone levels stay the same (no decrease) one should be able to keep almost all there muscle mass. Hormone therapy was marketed for this very reason. It was aimed at adult 40 and over initially, but now with hormones decreasing in the obese, it's been utilized to help them to get balance back in the body.
I don't disagree with some of the studies. Anytime you use a drug, there will be side effects of some sort. For some, it may not be prominent, others it will.
The only issue I have with hormone replacement is the that I still haven't met anyone yet who got on them, quit them. The plan was just to use it to get back into decent shape and health, but when getting off, many cannot handle the "loss" of the gains they made while on it. So it's not uncommon to get back on.
Either way, one should consult with an endocrinologist if they decide to do it. At least this way you'll have an idea of where you stand on hormones in your body.
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Nice comment Cyl. I have periodically heard and read too many news stories about how people take all natural supplements, not knowing that while what they are taking alone might be fine, but mixing it with other regular meds or foods, or whatever, causes them severe problems. The supplement category is just too much a free for all and not regulated. I cringe when I see the infomercials saying (and it is always a Doctor in an interview type set up with an actor/news anchor/journalist) "for the first 1,000 I am sending you for free (except for shipping and handling, which probably nets out for a pure profit on each free shipment) a 30 day supply to try before you become 'a client', so you can test and know for yourself". Knowing people are calling in without investigating this, some trusting it is a doctor, on and on, it is just not right........
Thanks for your comment. I concur!0 -
My wife goes out of her gourd when she sees those infommercials.donjtomasco wrote: »Nice comment Cyl. I have periodically heard and read too many news stories about how people take all natural supplements, not knowing that while what they are taking alone might be fine, but mixing it with other regular meds or foods, or whatever, causes them severe problems. The supplement category is just too much a free for all and not regulated. I cringe when I see the infomercials saying (and it is always a Doctor in an interview type set up with an actor/news anchor/journalist) "for the first 1,000 I am sending you for free (except for shipping and handling, which probably nets out for a pure profit on each free shipment) a 30 day supply to try before you become 'a client', so you can test and know for yourself". Knowing people are calling in without investigating this, some trusting it is a doctor, on and on, it is just not right........
Thanks for your comment. I concur!
The good news is that you can absolutely get stronger on a deficit, no question or debate. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I've only dropped about 14lbs, but have been doing a combination of strength and body weight training for a year + now and feel like I have a whole new lease on life.
Now, gaining mass - that's a bit different. Anyway, getting away from your topic there. But I'll just leave off saying we old farts...we aren't that old
T - therapy properly administered may work, but it's still something I would have to have done, as opposed to just eating, sleeping and exercising properly. I just don't want to be tied to it.
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I'm 66 and healthy in every regard - - mentally, sexually and physically.
I recently had my T-level checked out of curiosity and it was "normal" - - right in the middle of the suggested range for ALL men.
As the article points out, T-therapy is not a panacea and it only has certain limited benefits. I do believe in taking any unnecessary nedication.
So, IMO, unless you need it to fix a specific "problem" that it has been proven to address, there's no reason to try it.
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If I may, are you in any position to judge? You're blessed with a naturally high testosterone level at an age when it's usually much lower, so you don't feel the lack. For one who does, it may well feel as if it were necessary. The general malaise, moodiness, lack of energy, lack of a sense of well-being, lack of sex drive, lack of mental focus, and decreasing strength that can come with low testosterone (even when it's in a nominal range for a man's age) is problem enough for many men. The promise of a fix for all that can be very tempting in a way I'm not sure you're quite situated to understand.I'm 66 and healthy in every regard - - mentally, sexually and physically.
I recently had my T-level checked out of curiosity and it was "normal" - - right in the middle of the suggested range for ALL men.
As the article points out, T-therapy is not a panacea and it only has certain limited benefits. I do believe in taking any unnecessary nedication.
So, IMO, unless you need it to fix a specific "problem" that it has been proven to address, there's no reason to try it.0 -
donjtomasco wrote: »Nice comment Cyl. I have periodically heard and read too many news stories about how people take all natural supplements, not knowing that while what they are taking alone might be fine, but mixing it with other regular meds or foods, or whatever, causes them severe problems. The supplement category is just too much a free for all and not regulated. I cringe when I see the infomercials saying (and it is always a Doctor in an interview type set up with an actor/news anchor/journalist) "for the first 1,000 I am sending you for free (except for shipping and handling, which probably nets out for a pure profit on each free shipment) a 30 day supply to try before you become 'a client', so you can test and know for yourself". Knowing people are calling in without investigating this, some trusting it is a doctor, on and on, it is just not right........
Thanks for your comment. I concur!
Often those try it for "free" things end up signing people up for a monthly subscription (since they have your credit card number) somewhere in the fine print.0 -
If I may, are you in any position to judge? You're blessed with a naturally high testosterone level at an age when it's usually much lower, so you don't feel the lack. For one who does, it may well feel as if it were necessary.
Who's judging you? I'm not.
I just said that I do not believe in taking unnecessary medication and IF you do not have a specific problem that T-therapy has not been proven to help, then I do not think one should try it.
However, if YOU have a problem that you think that T-therapy will help you deal with, then by all means give it a try. That's your choice and privilege.
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If I may, are you in any position to judge? You're blessed with a naturally high testosterone level at an age when it's usually much lower, so you don't feel the lack. For one who does, it may well feel as if it were necessary.
Who's judging you? I'm not.
I just said that I do not believe in taking unnecessary medication and IF you do not have a specific problem that T-therapy has not been proven to help, then I do not think one should try it.
However, if YOU have a problem that you think that T-therapy will help you deal with, then by all means give it a try. That's your choice and privilege.
I didn't mean "judge" in the moral sense, and I wasn't really talking about myself. I took your post as using your own reaction as a measuring rod for that of someone actually the target of these therapies as they are marketed, because you surely are not in that demographic. An older man with the nominal testosterone of a younger man, and who feels great in pretty much every way, isn't going to be looking for this kind of help in the first place, and will ignore the advertising.
If that's not what you meant, then never mind.
I have an associated peeve on the subject. The studies were done on VA hospital patients with clinically low testosterone, but many of the clinics marketing testosterone therapy will claim a patient might benefit even if his levels are at the low end of the nominal range for his age. They say this on no real data I know of, so are promoting a therapy by overstating its potential benefits while having no good information on its risks. These are also highly non-specific symptoms where low testosterone might not be the cause even if it actually happens to be low.1 -
Being that I've observed quite a few males from the numerous gyms I've worked at, the males that admit they were on HRT look really good, recover well and are damn strong for their age. And apparently their sex lives are in full swing too.
My opinion on it is if someone is willing to do HRT, then keep the dose to the minimum. Where is goes wrong is when stacking and higher doses get used.
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Average cost is $17,000, $20,000 for the first 2 years. YIKES!!!!!!0
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donjtomasco wrote: »Average cost is $17,000, $20,000 for the first 2 years. YIKES!!!!!!
You'd be a fool to pay that.0 -
donjtomasco wrote: »Average cost is $17,000, $20,000 for the first 2 years. YIKES!!!!!!
that seems extremely high...
I looked into this here and it was 3900 for the year and that got you six treatments...
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donjtomasco wrote: »Average cost is $17,000, $20,000 for the first 2 years. YIKES!!!!!!
Funding someone's bonus I'd imagine. geez....0 -
donjtomasco wrote: »Average cost is $17,000, $20,000 for the first 2 years. YIKES!!!!!!
that seems extremely high...
I looked into this here and it was 3900 for the year and that got you six treatments...
I'm on a topical gel form prescribed by a urologist. The "sticker price" is a bit over $300/mo (I pay around $40 a month with my insurance) so pretty much the same range you're talking without insurance.1 -
I google "Cost for HRT Therapy" and that is what it came up with. I thought I could trust "The Google", but maybe it is even fake news now.....0
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^ Looks like that is the souped up version. If you Google low testosterone therapy costs, you get the $200-$400 a month range (before any insurance)0
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Well done Narcissist, which went against your name...1
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I wouldn't put much stock in that study until it's confirmed by additional ones. Test therapy has previously been shown to have significant positive outcomes for a variety of conditions both psychological and physical, including PTSD.
The study that the CNN article references is pretty limited in scope -- they were only looking at very specific conditions in men who already had a relatively serious health condition (low test levels) for an indeterminate period of time. I wouldn't read too much into it, despite the various news channels sensationalizing it.
When possible, avoid media descriptions of studies and read the studies themselves. Google Scholar is great for this. Otherwise, your local library probably subscribes to various medical journals that you can access online.0 -
Please, if I have to comment on this thread.... Do NOT take the testosterone Inj or Implants... my step father didnt want the testosterone gel, because it can rub off on other people, pets, and your clothing. So, he decided to get the injection and it was fine, although he had headaches all the time & didnt know why... had tests done and it would come out clear for any reason why he would have headaches like this... Then he decided to get the implants after two implants... he was walking to the kitchen and had a headache so bad he landed on the ground from pain, was carried to the car and taken to the hospital and had a stroke. Dr's couldnt figure out why and then came across that he was taking this testosterone!!!! It is unhealthy and has really bad long term side affects that can be deadly people. He has been eating healthy with minimal exercise and his levels are back up naturally. He will never take that drug ever again. Please look up all the lawsuits this drug has, its crazy its still on the market!0
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jessicadonahoe23 wrote: »Please, if I have to comment on this thread.... Do NOT take the testosterone Inj or Implants... my step father didnt want the testosterone gel, because it can rub off on other people, pets, and your clothing. So, he decided to get the injection and it was fine, although he had headaches all the time & didnt know why... had tests done and it would come out clear for any reason why he would have headaches like this... Then he decided to get the implants after two implants... he was walking to the kitchen and had a headache so bad he landed on the ground from pain, was carried to the car and taken to the hospital and had a stroke. Dr's couldnt figure out why and then came across that he was taking this testosterone!!!! It is unhealthy and has really bad long term side affects that can be deadly people. He has been eating healthy with minimal exercise and his levels are back up naturally. He will never take that drug ever again. Please look up all the lawsuits this drug has, its crazy its still on the market!
Everyone has testosterone in their body.1 -
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Lol, yeah you can go to Mexico for much cheaper.donjtomasco wrote: »Average cost is $17,000, $20,000 for the first 2 years. YIKES!!!!!!
If you're serious, you can find a legit Dr. for much less.
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That sounds about right.Packerjohn wrote: »^ Looks like that is the souped up version. If you Google low testosterone therapy costs, you get the $200-$400 a month range (before any insurance)
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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jessicadonahoe23 wrote: »Please, if I have to comment on this thread.... Do NOT take the testosterone Inj or Implants... my step father didnt want the testosterone gel, because it can rub off on other people, pets, and your clothing. So, he decided to get the injection and it was fine, although he had headaches all the time & didnt know why... had tests done and it would come out clear for any reason why he would have headaches like this... Then he decided to get the implants after two implants... he was walking to the kitchen and had a headache so bad he landed on the ground from pain, was carried to the car and taken to the hospital and had a stroke. Dr's couldnt figure out why and then came across that he was taking this testosterone!!!! It is unhealthy and has really bad long term side affects that can be deadly people. He has been eating healthy with minimal exercise and his levels are back up naturally. He will never take that drug ever again. Please look up all the lawsuits this drug has, its crazy its still on the market!
how do you know that the stroke was not caused by something else? Did he take the implants in conjunction with medical advice from his DR, or did he just do this on his own?
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This is an anecdote though. There are THOUSANDS of males out there on HRT that don't have the issue your step father had. And it's not a DRUG. It's synthetic hormone.jessicadonahoe23 wrote: »Please, if I have to comment on this thread.... Do NOT take the testosterone Inj or Implants... my step father didnt want the testosterone gel, because it can rub off on other people, pets, and your clothing. So, he decided to get the injection and it was fine, although he had headaches all the time & didnt know why... had tests done and it would come out clear for any reason why he would have headaches like this... Then he decided to get the implants after two implants... he was walking to the kitchen and had a headache so bad he landed on the ground from pain, was carried to the car and taken to the hospital and had a stroke. Dr's couldnt figure out why and then came across that he was taking this testosterone!!!! It is unhealthy and has really bad long term side affects that can be deadly people. He has been eating healthy with minimal exercise and his levels are back up naturally. He will never take that drug ever again. Please look up all the lawsuits this drug has, its crazy its still on the market!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So do some athletes. Lyle Alzado died of a brain issue and it was blamed on steroids which had nothing to do with his demise.NARCISSISTIC_PUP wrote: »jessicadonahoe23 wrote: »Please, if I have to comment on this thread.... Do NOT take the testosterone Inj or Implants... my step father didnt want the testosterone gel, because it can rub off on other people, pets, and your clothing. So, he decided to get the injection and it was fine, although he had headaches all the time & didnt know why... had tests done and it would come out clear for any reason why he would have headaches like this... Then he decided to get the implants after two implants... he was walking to the kitchen and had a headache so bad he landed on the ground from pain, was carried to the car and taken to the hospital and had a stroke. Dr's couldnt figure out why and then came across that he was taking this testosterone!!!! It is unhealthy and has really bad long term side affects that can be deadly people. He has been eating healthy with minimal exercise and his levels are back up naturally. He will never take that drug ever again. Please look up all the lawsuits this drug has, its crazy its still on the market!
Doctors have a habit of, once they know a patient has taken exogenous testosterone, or any other variant of AAS, blaming any health condition of said patient on steroid abuse
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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A reputable doctor will only give you therapeutic dosage of T, it's not going to make you huge; but if you have lower than normal T it'll make you feel better and live a happier life.0
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