adrenal rhythms: legit science or hokum?

amandaeve
amandaeve Posts: 723 Member
edited November 2024 in Health and Weight Loss
I recently took a saliva cortisol test to measure how my cortisol levels change throughout the day. Obviously it was just a sample from one random day, but I did wait 2 months before taking the samples so I could sample the most "normal" day possible. I don't know much about what a normal fluctuation should be. According to my test, low levels correlate with fatigue, low mood, stress and focus issues- all things we blame for weight gain. I'm not asking for medical advice, just curious what you all think about cortisol and adrenal fatigue in general, as it's not something that's really addressed in Western medicine.

Replies

  • L1zardQueen
    L1zardQueen Posts: 8,753 Member
    Who did the test?
  • amandaeve
    amandaeve Posts: 723 Member
    @Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink the test was done by Pharmasan Labs. When offered to me, it seemed legit as I had several cortisol tests run on me before (24-hour urine). I didn't think much of it. Then a week ago someone handed me a book on "Adrenal Fatigue" which I never heard of, and I was blown away at how bogus it all seemed.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    amandaeve wrote: »
    @Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink the test was done by Pharmasan Labs. When offered to me, it seemed legit as I had several cortisol tests run on me before (24-hour urine). I didn't think much of it. Then a week ago someone handed me a book on "Adrenal Fatigue" which I never heard of, and I was blown away at how bogus it all seemed.

    A quick Google search paints a pretty seedy picture of them:

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwi/pr/nutritional-supplement-provider-and-ceo-plead-guilty-false-claims-act-violations

    https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwi/pr/osceola-laboratory-agrees-pay-85-million-resolve-false-billing-case

  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    edited March 2017
    ccsernica wrote: »
    Adrenal fatigue is not addressed in "Western medicine" (not a real term; science- and evidence-based medicine know no hemisphere) because it's not real.

    This is untrue. Functional Medicine MD's do treat adrenal fatigue regardless of what the AMA says about it. And functional medicine doctors ARE medical doctors. Once upon a time western medicine didn't believe in chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia and yet today they are "addressed" in western medicine. Adrenal fatigue is a set of symptoms that are related to the rise and fall of cortisol at times opposite of when it should be rising and falling (usually brought on by stress). The 24hr urine cortisol test is the most accurate way to test this, but saliva testing proved very similar to my 24hr urine testing. There was some slight variation but it was not enough to make a difference in the outcome or conclusion. Using reputable testing labs is a no brainer (and not all are - just like not all doctors or hospitals are good).

    If it does not apply to you, then great. But there is a huge population that adrenal fatigue does apply to and like those that were misunderstood and undiagnosed when they had CFS or Fibro, people with adrenal fatigue dealing with MD's that don't "get" it go through the same thing. Thank goodness for the functional MD's that do "get" it.

    I had a friend that had what would now be called Fibro about 15yrs before it was ever recognized by doctors. She suffered horribly and was told over and over again it was in her head. And then the medical world decided "fibro" wasn't a mental disease any longer. How is this any different? You'll believe it once the AMA comes out with an official name for it, but BS on those that suffer with it before then? Nice.

  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    I asked this question on the Shredded By Science podcast and it was answered by Lawrence Judd and @SideSteel. I can't find the episode now.

    Originally I listened to the Sigma Nutrition podcast on the topic but needed it dumbed down.
  • ccsernica
    ccsernica Posts: 1,040 Member
    edited March 2017
    ccsernica wrote: »
    Adrenal fatigue is not addressed in "Western medicine" (not a real term; science- and evidence-based medicine know no hemisphere) because it's not real.
    Functional Medicine MD's

    Functional medicine MDs do a lot of things unwarranted by actual evidence. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/functional-medicine-in-practice/

    CFS and fibromyalgia are collections of symptoms with no clear etiology. Anyone claiming to treat them as if they were well-understood is a fraud.

    I'm not sure what you think the AMA has to do with any of this. You seem to envision a role for that organization it does not in fact exercise.
  • PaulaWallaDingDong
    PaulaWallaDingDong Posts: 4,647 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    ccsernica wrote: »
    Adrenal fatigue is not addressed in "Western medicine" (not a real term; science- and evidence-based medicine know no hemisphere) because it's not real.
    This is untrue.
    No, it's true, Adrenal fatigue doesn't exist. It was invented by a chiropractor. You do realize that chiropractors believe in disproven vitalism and non-existent subluxations. They don't know jack about the endocrine system, he did no relevant research to create his fake diagnosis, just pulled it out of his nether regions one morning.
    Functional Medicine MD's do treat adrenal fatigue regardless of what the AMA says about it. And functional medicine doctors ARE medical doctors.
    Functional medicine doctors are MDs that have crossed over into quackery and pseudoscience so it follows that they would treat fake diseases. So it doesn't matter that they "treat" adrenal fatigue, because it doesn't exist.
    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/functional-medicine-the-ultimate-misnomer-in-the-world-of-integrative-medicine/

    Once upon a time western medicine didn't believe in chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia and yet today they are "addressed" in western medicine.
    Surprise, surprise, researcher extroidonaire ronjsteele is wrong yet again:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chronic_fatigue_syndrome
    Both those diagnoses came about by way of research. Adrenal fatigue was invented by a quack who had no real understanding of the endocrine system.

    Adrenal fatigue is a set of symptoms that are related to the rise and fall of cortisol at times opposite of when it should be rising and falling (usually brought on by stress).
    Nope, just continue to double down on the BS. Let me guess, you have zero, zilch, nada, none, ungatz citations to prove this baseless statement.
    The 24hr urine cortisol test is the most accurate way to test this
    Wrong again. It is a fake disease so there is no accurate test for a fake disease. But 24 urine cortisol tests are accurate for other real adrenal conditions:
    http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/8546
    But there is a huge population that adrenal fatigue does apply to
    No it doesn't apply to anyone as it is a fake disease.
    people with adrenal fatigue dealing with MD's that don't "get" it
    MDs who are ethical don't "get" it because they don't give their patients false hope with fake diagnosis
    Thank goodness for the functional MD's that do "get" it.
    Functional medicine MDs do "get" it because it helps to line their wallets by selling useless supplements to treat a fake disease
    You'll believe it once the AMA comes out with an official name for it, but BS on those that suffer with it before then? Nice.
    The AMA will never come out with an official diagnosis because it's a fake disease. It's been 20 years since a chiropractor discovered it one morning in his toilet bowl with the contents of his colon. Why has there been no research to prove its existence since then?

    And I'm not saying that these people are not suffering from something, they are, but it's not adrenal fatigue, no matter what the quacks say.

    Now I know you're going to come back with a long winded rant about how you could post so much research, and that I won't believe it, and that I now to holy altar of science. But just once, I beg you, post something scientific. If not then don't respond, you're not doing yourself any favors

    superthumb.webp
  • amandaeve
    amandaeve Posts: 723 Member
    @Anvil_Head thank you for that, I am amazed they are still in business.
    @bbell1985 I want to check out those podcasts now!

    ....So now I need to share my findings with the clinic that sold me this test. I can only assume they are just as ignorant of the lawsuits against the lab as I was. If they sold me this test and was aware, then that's a bigger issue that I should bring up with the hospital and my insurance company as well. If anyone has any suggestions for that, I'll happily listen.

    Ironically, I am probably the last person on the planet who doesn't suffer from stress, isn't overworked, and gets adequate sleep. It appears I wasn't a candidate for adrenal fatigue to begin with.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    ccsernica wrote: »
    ccsernica wrote: »
    Adrenal fatigue is not addressed in "Western medicine" (not a real term; science- and evidence-based medicine know no hemisphere) because it's not real.
    Functional Medicine MD's

    Functional medicine MDs do a lot of things unwarranted by actual evidence. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/functional-medicine-in-practice/

    CFS and fibromyalgia are collections of symptoms with no clear etiology. Anyone claiming to treat them as if they were well-understood is a fraud.

    I'm not sure what you think the AMA has to do with any of this. You seem to envision a role for that organization it does not in fact exercise.

    1) Like other factions of MD's don't do things unwarranted by actual evidence? Doctors use drugs off label all the time to try and treat things because it *might* work. There is often little if actual "evidence" that doing so will work. And yet they do it. Or, they might have read a small study so they'll try something on a patient. And yet the same people will brush off a functional medicine doctor treating a patient because of a small study that indicated trying something might be worth it. So functional MD's working off of what they have in front of them (the patient) is really no different. If it is, then what you're really saying is you only believe that doctors who think just like you do are actually real or good doctors. Wow. So you're tossing out an entire faction of MD's as "woo?" Interesting.

    2) There are 31 known drugs used to treat fibromyalgia.

    https://www.drugs.com/condition/fibromyalgia.html

    http://www.webmd.com/fibromyalgia/guide/fibromyalgia-treatment-medications-that-can-and-cant-help

    So what you're saying is using them when the etiology of Fibro is not well understood is okay? Wait. Then why is it not okay to treat the symptoms of adrenal fatigue even though the etiology of it is not yet well understood? Although, I would wager a bet that way more is understood about AF then about fibro or CFS b/c we at least understand what stress does to cortisol levels in the body and how cortisol levels clearly effect health. There isn't much understanding (if any really) as to what actually causes CFS and fibro. There are a lot of theories though.

    3) Because ultimately the AMA comes out and decides what really is a "disease" and what isn't. Until they put their stamp of "we believe this exists" on something a lot of people will not acknowledge it. So yeah, they play a huge role in what doctors and others believe about medicine and diseases.
  • Sloth2016
    Sloth2016 Posts: 838 Member
    Hokum.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    Now I know you're going to come back with a long winded rant about how you could post so much research, and that I won't believe it, and that I now to holy altar of science. But just once, I beg you, post something scientific. If not then don't respond, you're not doing yourself any favors

    Nope. You're wrong. I'm not coming back with anything to argue with you about. 1) You pop onto this forum so conveniently anytime something you disagree with is posted and yet add nothing (or almost nothing) to any other part of the forum). So as far as I'm concerned, you're a troll. Are you actually paid to come here and dispute people? 2) It doesn't pay to argue with a *kitten*. It's that simple.

    You stated your side, I stated mine. End of story. People can decide for themselves. I do not worship at the feet of "science." I've stated that before. I look at what's in front of me, what I've seen work and not work, and what I've read and gleaned from scientific sources, my own and other's personal experiences. I'm good with that. If you're not, no one is telling you what to think or believe or practice. But I will certainly offer the info up to others and they can do with what they want with it.

    I agree with OP. If he was not someone who lived the lifestyle that could lead to AF, then testing was done for wrong reasons. As I've said before, there are good doctors and bad doctors (and I'm including every kind from family practice MD's to dentists, chiros, ND's, oncologists, surgeons, you name it). I've found far more bad ones then good ones. A good practitioner of any kind is few and far between. If you find someone you like that meets your goals and expectations then I wouldn't be quick to part with them.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    This is a great blog post about the AMA. Are they the official disease arbitor? Nope. But without their stamp of approval medical conditions will rarely, if ever, be recognized and if one follows it through (as she does so well), the FDA/drug companies play a major role in what is deemed a disease and what isn't. I guess there just isn't a drug for AF yet. I'm sure when there is the AMA will decide AF is worthy of being called a "disease." Perhaps by then other MD's will catch up to functional medicine doctors that are using cortef in low doses to help treat AF. :D
  • ccsernica
    ccsernica Posts: 1,040 Member
    Sloth2016 wrote: »
    Hokum.

    Yes, well we'll just have to let Ron live in his own little world. Just as long as he doesn't drag anyone else into it. He's more than adequately revealed his poor understanding of just about everything relevant.
  • PokeyBug
    PokeyBug Posts: 482 Member
    Maybe some folks are confusing adrenal insufficiency with adrenal fatigue? Also known as Addison's, adrenal insufficiency is caused by your adrenals not producing enough essential hormones like cortisol or aldosterone. I had incidents of dizziness upon standing, which along with my chronically low blood pressure, led my endocrinologist to explore whether this was an issue for me back when I was first dxed with hypothyroidism. Thankfully, he finally figured out it was a b12 deficiency, I started taking supplements, and the noisome symptoms abated.

    Google "JAMA" and "Adrenal Insufficiency" and you're find plenty of medical support of its existence.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,187 Member
    Can't tell you how many desperate clients of mine who have talked to "functional MD's" thinking they were jacked up, when really all they needed was just a great RD and some good instruction on physical fitness.
    Pseudoscience isn't science. Lots of chiropractors, reiki, herbalists, etc. spout BS that isn't evidence based and playing to the naivety of those unfamiliar with how science actually works within the body.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    Now I know you're going to come back with a long winded rant about how you could post so much research, and that I won't believe it, and that I now to holy altar of science. But just once, I beg you, post something scientific. If not then don't respond, you're not doing yourself any favors

    Nope. You're wrong. I'm not coming back with anything to argue with you about. 1) You pop onto this forum so conveniently anytime something you disagree with is posted and yet add nothing (or almost nothing) to any other part of the forum). So as far as I'm concerned, you're a troll. Are you actually paid to come here and dispute people? 2) It doesn't pay to argue with a *kitten*. It's that simple.

    You stated your side, I stated mine. End of story. People can decide for themselves. I do not worship at the feet of "science." I've stated that before. I look at what's in front of me, what I've seen work and not work, and what I've read and gleaned from scientific sources, my own and other's personal experiences. I'm good with that. If you're not, no one is telling you what to think or believe or practice. But I will certainly offer the info up to others and they can do with what they want with it.

    I agree with OP. If he was not someone who lived the lifestyle that could lead to AF, then testing was done for wrong reasons. As I've said before, there are good doctors and bad doctors (and I'm including every kind from family practice MD's to dentists, chiros, ND's, oncologists, surgeons, you name it). I've found far more bad ones then good ones. A good practitioner of any kind is few and far between. If you find someone you like that meets your goals and expectations then I wouldn't be quick to part with them.

    Um. Just because they only contribute to the odd thread doesn't make them a troll. Disputing what you believe doesn't make them a troll.

    I know what side I'm falling on and it isn't that of "functional" medicine.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    Um. Just because they only contribute to the odd thread doesn't make them a troll. Disputing what you believe doesn't make them a troll.

    I know what side I'm falling on and it isn't that of "functional" medicine.

    And that is certainly your choice....
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    ccsernica wrote: »
    ccsernica wrote: »
    Adrenal fatigue is not addressed in "Western medicine" (not a real term; science- and evidence-based medicine know no hemisphere) because it's not real.
    Functional Medicine MD's

    Functional medicine MDs do a lot of things unwarranted by actual evidence. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/functional-medicine-in-practice/

    CFS and fibromyalgia are collections of symptoms with no clear etiology. Anyone claiming to treat them as if they were well-understood is a fraud.

    I'm not sure what you think the AMA has to do with any of this. You seem to envision a role for that organization it does not in fact exercise.

    1) Like other factions of MD's don't do things unwarranted by actual evidence? Doctors use drugs off label all the time to try and treat things because it *might* work. There is often little if actual "evidence" that doing so will work. And yet they do it. Or, they might have read a small study so they'll try something on a patient. And yet the same people will brush off a functional medicine doctor treating a patient because of a small study that indicated trying something might be worth it. So functional MD's working off of what they have in front of them (the patient) is really no different.
    This is a non-sequitur. MDs using drugs off label doesn't legitimatize functional medicine. One has nothing to do with the other, it's a logical fallacy. It's like saying problems with air travel prove flying carpet are a valid form of transportation.
    If it is, then what you're really saying is you only believe that doctors who think just like you do are actually real or good doctors. Wow. So you're tossing out an entire faction of MD's as "woo?" Interesting.
    This is a false dichotomy, another logical fallacy, but what else can we expect from you, you proven yourself time and time again to be deficient in...Um.. reality and facts. This is not what @ccsernica is saying at all. The point being made is that functional medicine is quackery because it embraces all forms of unproven nonsense; detox, acupuncture, homeopathy,etc. For that reason it can be tossed out. It has nothing to do whether or not he/she agrees the way doctors think.
    2) There are 31 known drugs used to treat fibromyalgia.

    https://www.drugs.com/condition/fibromyalgia.html

    http://www.webmd.com/fibromyalgia/guide/fibromyalgia-treatment-medications-that-can-and-cant-help

    So what you're saying is using them when the etiology of Fibro is not well understood is okay? Wait. Then why is it not okay to treat the symptoms of adrenal fatigue even though the etiology of it is not yet well understood?
    Another non-sequitur, what is known and not known about CFS and fibromyalgia have nothing to do with the adrenal fatigue.

    To the bolded:
    First, I thought functional medicine treats the person and underlying cause, not symptoms?
    Second, it's unethical to treat a fake disease with unproven treatments and useless supplements, that's why it's not OK.
    Third, no matter how much you think it's real, adrenal fatigue is a fake diagnosis, so there is no etiology to understand.
    Although, I would wager a bet that way more is understood about AF then about fibro or CFS
    You would lose that bet as the is nothing to understand, it's a fake disease. But humor me: What exactly, with supporting documentation is known about adrenal fatigue? Be specific. I already see the excuses, I won't believe you, you don't have the time, I'm a paid shill, blah, blah, blah. For once, put up or shut up.

    b/c we at least understand what stress does to cortisol levels in the body and how cortisol levels clearly effect health.
    Yes, but it has nothing to do with the fake disease known as adrenal fatigue
    3) Because ultimately the AMA comes out and decides what really is a "disease" and what isn't. Until they put their stamp of "we believe this exists" on something a lot of people will not acknowledge it. So yeah, they play a huge role in what doctors and others believe about medicine and diseases.

    Wrong as usual. You still have no idea what the AMA does. In the case of CFS, it was the CDC who came up with the diagnosis, for fibromyalgia it was the American college of Rheumatology.
  • johnwelk
    johnwelk Posts: 396 Member
    johnwelk wrote: »
    Now I know you're going to come back with a long winded rant about how you could post so much research, and that I won't believe it, and that I now to holy altar of science. But just once, I beg you, post something scientific. If not then don't respond, you're not doing yourself any favors

    Nope. You're wrong. I'm not coming back with anything to argue with you about.
    Because you have nothing of substance to offer, just logical fallacies and lies.


    The following paragraph is one big ad hominem, another logical fallacy brought to you by ronjsteele.
    1) You pop onto this forum so conveniently anytime something you disagree with is posted and yet add nothing (or almost nothing) to any other part of the forum). So as far as I'm concerned, you're a troll. Are you actually paid to come here and dispute people? 2) It doesn't pay to argue with a *kitten*. It's that simple.
    Why does it matter what my posting history is? How does that have anything to do with the fake disease known as adrenal fatigue? And accusing me of being a some sort of paid troll? Why because I can disprove every thing that you say? I agree it doesn't pay for you to argue with a *kitten* like me, because you lose every time.
    So you can't address my arguments or even support your own, I guess your only resource is to attack me. Brilliant.

    You stated your side, I stated mine. End of story. People can decide for themselves.
    Round earthers state their side, flat earthers state theirs, end of story, people can decide for themselves. Is that how it works now?
    Sorry but it's not the end of the story. I and others actually supported our side with science, here's more proving adrenal fatigue is fake, not that you'll read it, but others who are willing to learn may find it interesting:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997656/

    You supported your side with logical fallacies and baseless assertions with no supporting evidence to back up your claims.
    I do not worship at the feet of "science." I've stated that before.
    We are all well aware that you worship at the feet of pseudoscience, and it's not something to be proud of or wear as a badge of honor.
    I look at what's in front of me, what I've seen work and not work, and what I've read and gleaned from scientific sources, my own and other's personal experiences. I'm good with that.
    With all that is know about how fallible the human mind is, this statement is quite concerning. You let confirmation bias and post hoc ergo propter hoc decide your medical care, that's scary. I've said this before, you need to read the book, Mistakes Were Made, But Not by Me.
    But I will certainly offer the info up to others and they can do with what they want with it.
    And people will continue to point out your misinformation,lies, and BS.
    I agree with OP. If he was not someone who lived the lifestyle that could lead to AF, then testing was done for wrong reasons.
    There is no lifestyle that will lead to a fake disease
    As I've said before, there are good doctors and bad doctors (and I'm including every kind from family practice MD's to dentists, chiros, ND's, oncologists, surgeons, you name it).
    Again, nothing to do with what we are taking about, why bring it up. And dont group quacks like chiropractors and NDs in with real doctors.
    I've found far more bad ones then good ones. A good practitioner of any kind is few and far between. If you find someone you like that meets your goals and expectations then I wouldn't be quick to part with them.
    And since your skills at evaluating good from bad is non existent we can all just safely ignore this bit of... advice.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    Here's what the Endocrine Society has to say about "Adrenal Fatigue":

    <snipped for brevity>

    In other words, it's an imaginary disease and the only ones who believe in it are naturopaths and "alternative medicine" quacks.

    It's like insisting that Santa Claus is real because most children below the age of 8 believe in him.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    edited March 2017
    Only chiming in here since I was tagged above and I covered this fairly thoroughly on SBS Radio.

    I don't know much about fibromyalgia so I won't comment there.

    Adrenal Fatigue is a made-up condition. The symptoms of adrenal fatigue are indeed real, but it's not a diagnosis recognized by non-quack doctors.

    It was originally invented by a chiropractor to describe a rather nonspecific set of symptoms.

    The premise of adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands essentially can't keep up with demand, however there's no evidence of this actually happening.

    The main problem I have with this are that there ARE actual conditions that DO have tests, such as primary and secondary adrenal insufficiency and Addison's Disease which can be properly diagnosed in a hospital by actual doctors, and if you have these conditions you need help.

    So for example you could have pituitary disease or a tumor causing ACTH to be produced in incorrect amounts (ACTH signals cortisol production in the adrenal glands). You could have physical damage to the adrenal glands. And if you have any of this, you need to go to the damn hospital, you don't need some *kitten* supplement sold by a chiropractor.

  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
    amandaeve wrote: »
    @Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink the test was done by Pharmasan Labs. When offered to me, it seemed legit as I had several cortisol tests run on me before (24-hour urine). I didn't think much of it. Then a week ago someone handed me a book on "Adrenal Fatigue" which I never heard of, and I was blown away at how bogus it all seemed.

    I just saw this post after my previous reply.

    It is indeed completely bogus.

    If you are concerned for your health I would recommend going to a traditional hospital and get checked out. There are a number of tests that can be administered for adrenal insufficiency and Addison's Disease.

    Of course, I don't say any of this to scare you and I'm not a medical professional.

    Finally, the symptoms you experience may indeed be real, and there could definitely be a benefit to reducing the stress in your life, improving the quality of your diet, and better managing the stress you do have, and getting adequate sleep.

    However there's no evidence that your life stress is causing physiological problems with the function of your adrenal glands and there's no evidence that any sort of supplement is going to cure you of this problem.

    I would highly question the lab you were in, and I'd recommend considering more traditional medicinal practices at your local hospital.
  • amandaeve
    amandaeve Posts: 723 Member
    Another concern I have regards the treatment for Adrenal Fatigue. This black licorice root supplement is not advised for people with hypertension. Of course, there’s no easy way to really know what’s in these supplements because they are not FDA-approved. The most common drugs contraindicated for hypertension are stimulants. It makes sense that a stimulant would be prescribed for anything with “fatigue” in the name, but the supplement doesn’t mention any stimulant or any addictive concerns (stimulants are addictive). While I don’t know if it’s true, it worries me that people might be taking addictive stimulant drugs and not knowing it.
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