Is there such a thing as too much exercise deficit?
AmyOMAD
Posts: 25 Member
My BMR is just over 1800 calories, and I want to lose weight. Of course the two ways to do so are to reduce calories in and/or create a calorie deficit through exercise. My calories right now are clocking in between 1300 and 1600. So here is my question...when I really start to add serious exercise on top, is there such a thing as too much exercise deficit? I'm talking 1000 calories worth. What would happen? Tiredness? Muscle loss?
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Replies
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Your BMR is the calories you expend merely existing...you don't cut from BMR, you cut from TDEE. And yes, there is such a thing as too large of a deficit as you aren't adequately fueling your bodily functions...loss of lean mass is one...people lose their hair...nails go brittle...ladies lose their menstrual cycles, etc.5
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Following up cwolfwan13's reply, how many calories does Myfitnesspal say you should eat, and what if your weight loss goal per week?2
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.... You should add the serious exercise if you like it, and then eat more. If your deficit is too big, with or without exercise, you'll be tired, foggy, grumpy, sleep to much, be cold all of the time, zombieland..... OR you could kick some @ss, eat all of the things, and lose some weight.
Last time time I did martial arts 2x a week and heavy lifting 3x a week, I was losing slowly on around 2800 calories a day. It was fabulous. Back at it this week, we'll see where everything settles out to.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Your BMR is the calories you expend merely existing...you don't cut from BMR, you cut from TDEE. And yes, there is such a thing as too large of a deficit as you aren't adequately fueling your bodily functions...loss of lean mass is one...people lose their hair...nails go brittle...ladies lose their menstrual cycles, etc.
Ok, good things to know. You're right, I forgot all about TDEE. Which now leads to another question.
As of two days ago, I got a fitbit alta hr to track all day and night. I know you can do a bunch of math to figure out TDEE, but the calorie burn that gets spit out at the end of the day on the Alta is my actual TDEE, is it not?0 -
amyereed99 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Your BMR is the calories you expend merely existing...you don't cut from BMR, you cut from TDEE. And yes, there is such a thing as too large of a deficit as you aren't adequately fueling your bodily functions...loss of lean mass is one...people lose their hair...nails go brittle...ladies lose their menstrual cycles, etc.
Ok, good things to know. You're right, I forgot all about TDEE. Which now leads to another question.
As of two days ago, I got a fitbit alta hr to track all day and night. I know you can do a bunch of math to figure out TDEE, but the calorie burn that gets spit out at the end of the day on the Alta is my actual TDEE, is it not?
It should be fairly close. I have heard that Fitbits take at least several days to calibrate, for lack of a better term, the calories they give you. Like all things, for some people it is pretty much right on, for others it is high, and still others low. I would say go with its numbers and log what you eat and drink as accurately as possible for several weeks, yes weeks at least 3. Based on your real life results and how they differ from your intended goal, assuming your logging is accurate, you can determine how close the fitbit is for you. There are confounding factors, especially for women, with water weight gain; and for people new to exercise, again with water weight gain as one's body gets used to regular exercise, which is why a minimum of three weeks is what I suggest.1 -
amyereed99 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Your BMR is the calories you expend merely existing...you don't cut from BMR, you cut from TDEE. And yes, there is such a thing as too large of a deficit as you aren't adequately fueling your bodily functions...loss of lean mass is one...people lose their hair...nails go brittle...ladies lose their menstrual cycles, etc.
Ok, good things to know. You're right, I forgot all about TDEE. Which now leads to another question.
As of two days ago, I got a fitbit alta hr to track all day and night. I know you can do a bunch of math to figure out TDEE, but the calorie burn that gets spit out at the end of the day on the Alta is my actual TDEE, is it not?
It's not "actual" but if it's consistent,then it can be helpful as a guide. If you are following a fairly consistent schedule of activity and exercise, over time, you get a sense of how those numbers relate to weight loss.
For example I know that if I keep my Polar calories (combined HRM and activity tracker) above 3000 and my calorie intake in the 1800-2000 range, I will lose weight. Not necessarily at the rate indicated by a 1200 calorie deficit, but a consistent and steady loss of 1-2 lbs/wk.
I liked that because it gave me just 2 numbers to track. No need to calculate "activity level", no need to "eat back" any calories--just monitor intake and move around enough to hit my number.1 -
rileysowner wrote: »Following up cwolfwan13's reply, how many calories does Myfitnesspal say you should eat, and what if your weight loss goal per week?
Ok, so I told MFP I wanted to lose 2 lbs a week and that I was as lazy as heck. Which I truly believe I am most days.
However now that I've added the Fitbit into the equation, I'm getting me a little tripped up. 1) I may not be all that lazy. 2) Which numbers do I follow so that I don't get tired....I think you may have answered this though in your other reply.
The real heart of the OP is me trying to find optimal balance. I do have a few other factors to try to eliminate and filter through as well, like the fact that I do have hair loss (is that a nutrition deficiency, I wonder), I am tired all the time (is this situational depression though).
So I do want to add exercise, but not compound my issues into greater problems. I think the answer will be in the numbers, it's just a matter of which ones.
I really hope you can follow my train of thought here as I get long winded. Thanks for the replies!!!
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rileysowner wrote: »Following up cwolfwan13's reply, how many calories does Myfitnesspal say you should eat, and what if your weight loss goal per week?
Oh, and MFP said 1200, but I'm doubting that after just 1 day with my fitbit.
Mind you, I have dieted, lost weight, yoyo-ed, and had periods of hard training for almost 25 years. I thought I knew it all and yet I have to think I know nothing because I've never sustained a great loss more than 6 months.0 -
Most of us in here aren't doctors, and whoever might be hasn't examined you, so take anything you read here with a grain of salt.amyereed99 wrote: »The real heart of the OP is me trying to find optimal balance. I do have a few other factors to try to eliminate and filter through as well, like the fact that I do have hair loss (is that a nutrition deficiency, I wonder), I am tired all the time (is this situational depression though).
Hair loss isn't uncommon with substantial weight loss. Now it could be from something else, you might have a genetic condition or some kind of illness - but if it were me, I'd respond by lowering my calorie deficit, and then paying attention over the next month or so.
I've dealt with depression on and off through my life, and know how it can make you tired all the time. Exercising (especially outdoors) did wonders for me. I hope it helps you, too.amyereed99 wrote: »I'm talking 1000 calories worth. What would happen? Tiredness? Muscle loss?
Muscle loss comes inevitably with weight loss. The two things you can do to minimize it are to get a lot of protein, and do some kind of resistance exercise. That could be body weight like pushups, that could be with a $10 set of resistance bands, or it could be at the gym.1 -
For the last 30 weeks, I have been working with a trainer, and usng MFP to track my food and exercise--I have been averaging 1000 cal deficit a day--some day I have a 700 deficit --some days a 1500 cal deficit---I am eating about 1600 cal to 1900 cal a day--but I am swimming(60 mins/day, doing weights (4 x a weeek) and I can burn off 1000 calories in 50 minutes doing treadmill at 4.4 mph and a 15 incline! (6 days a week)(my cardio is getting better all the time--a REST for me now is 9 incline at 4.0 for a couple of minutes then back up to 15/4.4.
I will sometimes earn 2000 calories from exerciseand I tend to lowball my swimming and give 200 calories for 60 minutes of weights (lots of one minute breaks)! My ability to lift weights has increased (my trainer has me lifitng THREE pounds at start of this for triceps--and now I'm at 15 )4x12) My arm pushes are up from 30 pounds to 90 pounds--so I am not losing muscle mass and I have lost 60 pounds in 30 weeks exactly---3500 for one pound so 1000 a day is two pounds a week--and it has been so. I feel awesome!!! Lost 9 inches
Hope this helps---(water intake is about 3-4 liters a day--that cardio really makes me sweat!)0 -
If you're asking whether there are risks to suddenly starting a strenuous exercise program, then yes, perhaps. Repetitive stress injuries are real, and people who suddenly go from 0 to 60 are relatively likely to hurt themselves. What would you be doing in order to burn 1000 calories a day? I'm in fairly good shape, exercise regularly and am at a healthy BMI (so I burn fewer calories than a heavier person of my age/height would burn), but I'd have to run 10 miles to burn 1000 calories. If I jumped into doing that, I would absolutely injure myself, and it wouldn't take me long to do so.1
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@AliceDark Running is a special case, it's a type of exercise that leaves people unusually prone to injury. Burning 1,000 calories on a bike requires a two hours at a downright leisurely pace, and as long as you don't run into anything, the low impact nature of the exercise means "injury" isn't part of a cyclist's vocabulary.0
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@NorthCascades My own personal bias toward running and away from cycling is showing
Wouldn't you still expect to see some kind of learning curve or adaptation ramp for a beginner cyclist, though? (I mean, could you safely start cycling 2 hours per day right off the bat without concern? Maybe you could; I just don't know.) I guess I can't imagine any other exercise modality that wouldn't present a risk of injury if you started with the expectation of creating a 1000 calorie deficit daily from the exercise alone. 0 -
I think somebody who'd never been on a bike before could probably go out and ride 30 miles in 2 hours, and then spend the next few days being sore and tired.
The first time I ran a 10K, I learned why you're not supposed to run in just any shirt. If someone picks up a bike and over-reaches, they'll learn why people like padded shorts.
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How much do you have to lose, OP?
1200 calories may not be sufficient fuel for you - and if you told MFP you want to lose 2lbs per week but only have like 20 lbs to lose, that is too aggressive of a goal.
You need to pick a reasonable and sustainable deficit.0 -
sammyliftsandeats wrote: »How much do you have to lose, OP?
1200 calories may not be sufficient fuel for you - and if you told MFP you want to lose 2lbs per week but only have like 20 lbs to lose, that is too aggressive of a goal.
You need to pick a reasonable and sustainable deficit.
I'm 5'5" 215 lbs. I told MFP I was pretty lazy (for now), but I know that when I get in the mental groove I work really really hard. I have the mesomorph shape, tendancies, and am quite strong with a 300lb deadlift, if that says much.
The issue is I don't know how much deficit is too much for me. And about where I should really start with calories. I have a tendency to burn out pretty quickly, and by that I mean 2 months, after I start training. I hate to admit that I've never really tracked nutrition before and several trainers that I had over the years didn't set me up for success in this area. I would have had to see a nutrition coach and I couldn't afford both.0 -
If you are 215lbs, I would definitely say that 1200 is not enough fuel for you.
I could never run on 1200 calories - I would be suffering from malnutrition badly.
I took a look at your diary...you seem to be eating in the ballpark of 1500-1600 calories on average. That may be okay, but perhaps you can gauge how you feel for a few weeks and if you are feeling like crap, not performing well in the gym, and very hungry, then raise the calories up by about 100-200 until you reach a place where you are losing at a healthy pace, not starving, and performing well in the gym.
PS. 300lb deadlift is very impressive. Rock on!1 -
What would you be doing in order to burn 1000 calories a day?
I walk up to an hour a day which is 400 calories, rebounding is another 200 a day, and the next two months has me cleaning, moving and selling my home to move my family overseas on top of that. So I'm expecting to be in the 1,000 calorie ballpark.
You're right, I am heavier at 215 lbs. And really I could cut back on the newer exercising but it has been good stress relief so far and so I'd like it to stay, especially with the move. I am not completely new to exercise. I've had personal trainers and crossfit in my background (now at a year and a half off). I just know that I am really naive with the numbers game and am trying avoid burnout, but still create a loss.
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sammyliftsandeats wrote: »I could never run on 1200 calories - I would be suffering from malnutrition badly.
PS. 300lb deadlift is very impressive. Rock on!
Yeah, that's the thing. I had wanted to do what MFP suggested, but now with the fitbit numbers showing up and the extra calorie burning coming into play, it's all getting just a bit jumbled. Not to mention the fact that I follow a vegan diet (as you saw) which is a whole other can of worms that I don't really want to open up in this thread.0 -
If without special effort you are getting more than 4000 steps - you are not Sedentary.
Even if a tad lower on weekdays but well above on weekends from normal daily activity - you are not Sedentary.
You'll see big adjustments from MFP as it get's your Fitbit calorie burn, when set to Sedentary and really not.
Read the FAQ in the Fitbit group stickies, first section for some general guidelines to combining the two.
Oh - and that eating goal MFP gives - is if you exactly met the chosen activity level and did NO exercise.
So the adjustments just prove you are doing more, and if it includes workouts - well, you do more, you eat more.
Life lesson there.
You also do less you eat less.
Confirm you get enough complete protein from your vegan diet - it's harder.
In fact, if too difficult - then make the deficit smaller.
You really won't like it now or later when your weight loss includes muscle mass. Big regret and harder to maintain usually.1 -
Yeah, I have to give what you've said a bit of credit. I may in fact be misguiding myself with lethargy from undereating at times and certain nutrition deficiencies, iron being a big one. And then translating that into believing I'm Sedentary.If without special effort you are getting more than 4000 steps - you are not Sedentary.
Even if a tad lower on weekdays but well above on weekends from normal daily activity - you are not Sedentary.
PERFECT! THANK YOU!Read the FAQ in the Fitbit group stickies, first section for some general guidelines to combining the two.0 -
I gained 40 kg when I had cancer in 2015/16. The prognosis was not brilliant, so I decided to eat what I want. Now that I am better I have to lose the weight. I eat what is recommended by MFP; 1200 calories, but exercise off 1400+ calories a day. I monitor this with an Apple watch. I lose about 200 grams a day. I am a little tired after I exercise - mostly deep water running - but in general feel great.0
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amyereed99 wrote: »the fact that I do have hair loss (is that a nutrition deficiency, I wonder), I am tired all the time (is this situational depression though).
in my life anaemia and rheumatoid arthritis both had that pair of effects. and then too, r.a. comes with a side of anaemia for many people. it could have any one of a number of causes in your case, but getting your nutrition level sorted out so it matches your body's needs would be a starting point anyway.
not that that's helpful in any very concrete kind of way. just wanted to chime in to encourage you to eat
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