CICO, It's a math formula
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third pedant here ... it is Maths (with an s) not Math .
I am from ENGland where we speak (and write) proper ENGlish** (see what i did there!!) and don't throw away the letter u from a lot of words.
Although to be fair i did have a American IT teacher in the early 80's who summed it up with " we Americans speak proper english because there are 250 million of us and only 50 million of you and that's how democracy works!!"
As for the actual literary content "Cracking post Gromit !!"
**well most of the time anyway ...
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CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.19 -
Sounds like an excuse. There are several other sites to measure this and get a decent approximation within 10-20 calories.endlessfall16 wrote: »
Wait, MFP can tell you approximately how much to eat to lose weight based on information one inputs. Now all one has to do is FOLLOW it.endlessfall16 wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »endlessfall16 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Just want to put this out there for some of the newbies, and others that may be a bit confused about the whole concept of "CICO"- Calories in VS Calories Out.
First, CICO is a math formula that will tell you one of three things.
If you want to lose weight, then you need to make your Calories In less than Out = calorie deficit to lose weight.
Second, if you want to maintain then you need of make your calories in = calories out = maintenance to maintain current weight.
Finally, if you want to gain, then you need to make your calories in greater than your calories out = caloric surplus.
CICO is not a way of eating, I repeat CICO is not a way of eating. If you are doing Keto, low carb, moderate protein/moderate carbs, IIFYM, etc and you are gaining, maintaining, or losing weight then you are using the fundamental principle of CICO.
CICO is not eating a diet of 100% "junk," or ignoring nutrition, or not caring about body composition, it is just a math formula that tells you to reach a goal. The formula is not perfect and it requires trial and error, but in the end it works for everyone, period.
If your goal is straight weight loss then you can just apply CICO, and eat less than you burn.
If your goal is to be more lean, or have advanced body composition goals, then you are going to need macro/micro adherence + a structured exercise regimen.
Finally, all calories are equal in that they provide the same measure of energy; however, they do not all contain the same nutritional profile.
Yes it is a math formula yet we have no way of knowing our own CICO short of going to an expensive lab. What if one is taking Pycnogenol, etc that is blocking some complex carbs from being used as energy? How do you know how many calories to subtract from CI? CICO does not factor in efficiency of digestion. What about people with health conditions that lower their metabolism?
I give you even though it is nothing precise CICO guessimations may be helpful as we start to order our disordered WOE's.
There is one way that any of us can determine our true net CICO results and that is to weigh our body say the first thing each morning before we eat or drink anything and track those numbers. One could do it once a week or month if she wishes.
See my post upthread. One doesn't need to know CICO exactly, to the tenth of a calorie. That there are variables for some people does not invalidate the entire concept. It's not only helpful at the beginning, it is the overarching principle behind the entire weight management process.
I get that you have medical conditions that you've managed/mitigated through a change in your way of eating and resulting weight loss. Do you acknowledge that no matter how you ate, all the coffee with 8 creamers and round eggs at McDonalds... it's CICO that governed your weight loss? And that was a contributing factor to your health improvements? If you hadn't lost a single pound, but changed your diet, do you think you would have had the same results? What if you had lost weight but hadn't changed to a LCHF diet?
This "entire concept" of CICO is so vague that it might not be helpful at all. It's a jargon for many. If you are going for concepts there are others that may be more helpful than it such as "eat less, move more" since it is layman's terms. I would bet less people would incline to argue about "eat less, move more".
But its not. It's an equation. The fact that some people seem unable to wrap their heads around it, or seem to willfully resist conceding that it exists doesn't change that.
You don't understand. Wino put it correctly, it's [just] a concept.
For it to be some sort of useful equation, let a lone a math formula, it would need alot more elements.
Implementation wise, it wasn't that simple. I needed to make several adjustments. No way to get accurate "calorie out" numbers.
Math still applies. Even if you DIDN'T exercise, if you ate the target calories, weight loss should occur.My days are different.
Because you didn't want to accurately measure it? The numbers do matter, so why just estimate it (if you're not losing weight)?Calories from foods were also rough estimates for me.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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quiksylver296 wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.
So true. It's like getting abs.. you need adequate body composition and low body fat (simple), but achieving that is very difficult and takes a lot of dedication.10 -
Yep. It simple's to set an alarm clock to get up in the morning. For me, it's easy to get up and go, but I know lots of people who need to get dragged out of bed to start the day.quiksylver296 wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Yep. It simple's to set an alarm clock to get up in the morning. For me, it's easy to get up and go, but I know lots of people who need to get dragged out of bed to start the day.quiksylver296 wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That would be me. I have 3 alarm clocks set up around my room to somehow get myself moving. It's simple enough to do.
Doesn't mean it's easy to get me going (or always successful). Even after I'm up, there's no guarantee that my eyes are fully open or, as the French would say, aligned with the holes...
Same applies to CICO. It's simple if you use the tools available, but you still have to use the tools consistently (and not throw a pillow at them) over a long time period to get to the results you want. And that's anything but easy at times.8 -
I just lost 14 lbs in seven weeks while eating at a 1000 calorie per day deficit. Exactly as CICO predicts (could not have done it without MFP). Yes, CICO works.
But the numbers are not going to match up every single day. Lots of undulations in my chart; I did not lose exactly 2/7 of a lb every day. Gotta be that "lots of variables" bit so many have cited. But over the long run: perfect.7 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Through my years here, I've noticed that a great many people who have success calorie counting and otherwise keeping track of their CICO are in professions such as accounting and engineering and/or are otherwise a bit anal retentive about things.French_Peasant wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Can I join the math club? I get lots of spreadsheets from actuaries and listen very attentively while they 'splain it to me...twice.* CICO is a snap once you grapple with Monte Carlo simulations...plus it has the added benefit of dealing with food, not with death. YAY.
*I will swan about in actuary-land with my free calculator I got from a local arts organization. VERY IMPRESSIVE.
I'll allow it...
The math really isn't even that hard though. I'm a stay at home mom with an English/political science degree and I can't even help my 6th grader with her math homework. Somehow I still figured out CICO and lost 50lbs. If I can do it, then everyone can do it
This. Nobody is worse at math than me and once I read a few decent threads here, I was able to understand all the math I needed to make it work.4 -
ladyreva78 wrote: »
Yep. It simple's to set an alarm clock to get up in the morning. For me, it's easy to get up and go, but I know lots of people who need to get dragged out of bed to start the day.quiksylver296 wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That would be me. I have 3 alarm clocks set up around my room to somehow get myself moving. It's simple enough to do.
Doesn't mean it's easy to get me going (or always successful). Even after I'm up, there's no guarantee that my eyes are fully open or, as the French would say, aligned with the holes...
Same applies to CICO. It's simple if you use the tools available, but you still have to use the tools consistently (and not throw a pillow at them) over a long time period to get to the results you want. And that's anything but easy at times.
Me too, I'm a night owl and I've been suffering because I've changed jobs, which requires an earlier start. Radio on, lights on, and my phone alarm, I can just about get out of bed but not quickly.
Several of my failed attempts involved me trying to work out in the morning before work. Just get up earlier it's easy part of the current success has boiling it down to Maths. Working out what suits me best rather than trying to be perfect believing all the myths (I drink my calories, I eat breakfast sometimes, a banana is grim and I will never eat one, I eat late at night, I'm useless in the mornings, along with other things).
It's not always easy, but it is simple. I tracked my food for months, looked at my weight trends, established that my fitbit slightly underestimates my burn so I eat all the exercise. It is simple, but the emotional connection and guilt around food is still not easy at times. But using calorie counting as a tool for CI<CO has been working for me.
I'm a Clinical Data Analyst, can I join the club?6 -
ladyreva78 wrote: »
Yep. It simple's to set an alarm clock to get up in the morning. For me, it's easy to get up and go, but I know lots of people who need to get dragged out of bed to start the day.quiksylver296 wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That would be me. I have 3 alarm clocks set up around my room to somehow get myself moving. It's simple enough to do.
Doesn't mean it's easy to get me going (or always successful). Even after I'm up, there's no guarantee that my eyes are fully open or, as the French would say, aligned with the holes...
Same applies to CICO. It's simple if you use the tools available, but you still have to use the tools consistently (and not throw a pillow at them) over a long time period to get to the results you want. And that's anything but easy at times.
Me too, I'm a night owl and I've been suffering because I've changed jobs, which requires an earlier start. Radio on, lights on, and my phone alarm, I can just about get out of bed but not quickly.
Several of my failed attempts involved me trying to work out in the morning before work. Just get up earlier it's easy part of the current success has boiling it down to Maths. Working out what suits me best rather than trying to be perfect believing all the myths (I drink my calories, I eat breakfast sometimes, a banana is grim and I will never eat one, I eat late at night, I'm useless in the mornings, along with other things).
It's not always easy, but it is simple. I tracked my food for months, looked at my weight trends, established that my fitbit slightly underestimates my burn so I eat all the exercise. It is simple, but the emotional connection and guilt around food is still not easy at times. But using calorie counting as a tool for CI<CO has been working for me.
I'm a Clinical Data Analyst, can I join the club?
One thing I have learned over the past couple years is that trying to force yourself to be someone else in order to lose weight or maintain weight loss is a road to frustration and failure (at least for me). This doesn't mean that I can't sometimes change habits or try new things. But I have to understand what works for me rather than trying to force myself to resemble someone else.
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ladyreva78 wrote: »
Yep. It simple's to set an alarm clock to get up in the morning. For me, it's easy to get up and go, but I know lots of people who need to get dragged out of bed to start the day.quiksylver296 wrote: »CynthiasChoice wrote: »I'm one of those people who gets annoyed with the statement that CICO is simple. Yes the equation is simple, but the application of it is a puzzle for many people, especially for those who are impatient to get it right immediately so they see the pounds start to drop off.
There are so many unknowns, and then add to that the complete disarray of the MFP database. It can take up to an hour to research every food entry for the day to make sure it matches the USDA database. So many packaged foods under-report calorie content, and are likely 20% higher in calories than the package states. And one banana can be way sweeter than another and likely 25 calories more. It's impossible to know how many calories you are truly consuming. And CI is the "easiest" part to track.
It's the word "simple" that annoys me. And when people throw out the CICO comment, they are sometimes completely ignoring the significant part of the conversation, i.e. how to deal with cravings, satiety, nutrition, etc. It sometimes comes off sounding smug and condescending.
Simple =/= easy.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That would be me. I have 3 alarm clocks set up around my room to somehow get myself moving. It's simple enough to do.
Doesn't mean it's easy to get me going (or always successful). Even after I'm up, there's no guarantee that my eyes are fully open or, as the French would say, aligned with the holes...
Same applies to CICO. It's simple if you use the tools available, but you still have to use the tools consistently (and not throw a pillow at them) over a long time period to get to the results you want. And that's anything but easy at times.
Me too, I'm a night owl and I've been suffering because I've changed jobs, which requires an earlier start. Radio on, lights on, and my phone alarm, I can just about get out of bed but not quickly.
Several of my failed attempts involved me trying to work out in the morning before work. Just get up earlier it's easy part of the current success has boiling it down to Maths. Working out what suits me best rather than trying to be perfect believing all the myths (I drink my calories, I eat breakfast sometimes, a banana is grim and I will never eat one, I eat late at night, I'm useless in the mornings, along with other things).
It's not always easy, but it is simple. I tracked my food for months, looked at my weight trends, established that my fitbit slightly underestimates my burn so I eat all the exercise. It is simple, but the emotional connection and guilt around food is still not easy at times. But using calorie counting as a tool for CI<CO has been working for me.
I'm a Clinical Data Analyst, can I join the club?
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Math and physics teacher here. I agree CI<CO is needed for weight loss.
I do also believe that some need to address dietary/nutritional and health needs to make meeting that equation for a sustained length of time (months and months of weight loss for many) doable.
CI<CO is the key. To reach that over the long term people may need to change many things, and not just the number of calories they consume.11 -
Great post OP - I knew the forum warriors would find a way to make it about them. I am waiting for the words "peer reviewed" to make their inevitable appearance.
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middlehaitch wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Through my years here, I've noticed that a great many people who have success calorie counting and otherwise keeping track of their CICO are in professions such as accounting and engineering and/or are otherwise a bit anal retentive about things.French_Peasant wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Can I join the math club? I get lots of spreadsheets from actuaries and listen very attentively while they 'splain it to me...twice.* CICO is a snap once you grapple with Monte Carlo simulations...plus it has the added benefit of dealing with food, not with death. YAY.
*I will swan about in actuary-land with my free calculator I got from a local arts organization. VERY IMPRESSIVE.
I'll allow it...
Eek! I'm an artist. I don't play well with maths.
I must be a freak of nature.
Fortunately, quite early on I figure out my own numbers to work with.
Now, I rarely count, have never owned a fitness/step tracker, and weigh myself occasionally- I go by the visuals.
7 years maintenance isn't bad for a non-accountant
Cheers, h.
Edit, not retentive either- the opposite whatever that is.
Yeah, I didn't say everyone...it's just an observation I've made throughout the years here...people in those kind of fields and similar tend to be very detail oriented and organized and a little OCD about certain things (i.e. anal retentive)2 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Through my years here, I've noticed that a great many people who have success calorie counting and otherwise keeping track of their CICO are in professions such as accounting and engineering and/or are otherwise a bit anal retentive about things.French_Peasant wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Can I join the math club? I get lots of spreadsheets from actuaries and listen very attentively while they 'splain it to me...twice.* CICO is a snap once you grapple with Monte Carlo simulations...plus it has the added benefit of dealing with food, not with death. YAY.
*I will swan about in actuary-land with my free calculator I got from a local arts organization. VERY IMPRESSIVE.
I'll allow it...
The math really isn't even that hard though. I'm a stay at home mom with an English/political science degree and I can't even help my 6th grader with her math homework. Somehow I still figured out CICO and lost 50lbs. If I can do it, then everyone can do it
No, the math isn't hard at all...when I'm talking about people in those fields and similar, I'm not really talking about the math...this is about as simple from a math standpoint as you get...but typically people in those fields and similar like data...they're a bit OCD in analyzing such data and other things...they like keeping ledgers and spreadsheets for everything...they tend to be very detail oriented and analytical, etc.
Anyone can do this for sure...the math is super easy...but I think in general there's a certain type of personality that does well with calorie counting in particular...it's definitely not for everyone which is why there are so many different diet plans out there...for a lot of people, those are easier even though CICO is still in play whether they know it or not.4 -
People fail to see how simple it is, because the diet industry has plagued our brains with how not simple it is. If someone has failed double digit amount of times at losing weight, it would be a little pride swallowing moment if you realized how simple it is to lose the weight. That would mean your predicament is 100% self inflicted, and the only person to be accountable is yourself. (Not including people with medical conditions or other issues that greatly affect CO more than the avg person).
It took me several years and failed attempts to understand/realize that myself. Now it's so obvious. As someone said, just because the equation is simple, it doesn't mean it's easy.
There really isn't much dispute, if any to OP's post. Some of my friends still argue they have to restrict their diet because a calorie of a donut is not equal to a calorie of broccoli.
Self accountability is a hell of a drug. It can either motivate you or derail you into making excuses for failure.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »crazyycatlady1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Through my years here, I've noticed that a great many people who have success calorie counting and otherwise keeping track of their CICO are in professions such as accounting and engineering and/or are otherwise a bit anal retentive about things.French_Peasant wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Can I join the math club? I get lots of spreadsheets from actuaries and listen very attentively while they 'splain it to me...twice.* CICO is a snap once you grapple with Monte Carlo simulations...plus it has the added benefit of dealing with food, not with death. YAY.
*I will swan about in actuary-land with my free calculator I got from a local arts organization. VERY IMPRESSIVE.
I'll allow it...
The math really isn't even that hard though. I'm a stay at home mom with an English/political science degree and I can't even help my 6th grader with her math homework. Somehow I still figured out CICO and lost 50lbs. If I can do it, then everyone can do it
No, the math isn't hard at all...when I'm talking about people in those fields and similar, I'm not really talking about the math...this is about as simple from a math standpoint as you get...but typically people in those fields and similar like data...they're a bit OCD in analyzing such data and other things...they like keeping ledgers and spreadsheets for everything...they tend to be very detail oriented and analytical, etc.
Anyone can do this for sure...the math is super easy...but I think in general there's a certain type of personality that does well with calorie counting in particular...it's definitely not for everyone which is why there are so many different diet plans out there...for a lot of people, those are easier even though CICO is still in play whether they know it or not.
I thrive on numbers. I enjoy them. I make spreadsheets for the heck of it and calculate my yearly deficit every new year. I could easily use guesstimates for some stuff without much worry, but I highly enjoy the process of getting as close enough of a number as possible just because I want to. There might be something to your theory there..4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »crazyycatlady1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Through my years here, I've noticed that a great many people who have success calorie counting and otherwise keeping track of their CICO are in professions such as accounting and engineering and/or are otherwise a bit anal retentive about things.French_Peasant wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »
And I'm the exact opposite. I math well, so figuring this out and learning to count calories has made weight loss very simple for me. If I go over, I don't lose what I want. It's a math problem for me. I find this way easier than cutting out foods.The issue for many people IMO, is that some just don't math well or as mentioned are just inaccurate in their calories eaten and burned. But it works PERIOD. Without it weight gain/loss/maintenance doesn't happen.
Yeah, I'm an accountant...it was a no brainer for me. I just had to keep another ledger to track it...I keep lots of ledgers.
Geek.
Oh, wait. I'm an accountant too.
Can I join the math club? I get lots of spreadsheets from actuaries and listen very attentively while they 'splain it to me...twice.* CICO is a snap once you grapple with Monte Carlo simulations...plus it has the added benefit of dealing with food, not with death. YAY.
*I will swan about in actuary-land with my free calculator I got from a local arts organization. VERY IMPRESSIVE.
I'll allow it...
The math really isn't even that hard though. I'm a stay at home mom with an English/political science degree and I can't even help my 6th grader with her math homework. Somehow I still figured out CICO and lost 50lbs. If I can do it, then everyone can do it
No, the math isn't hard at all...when I'm talking about people in those fields and similar, I'm not really talking about the math...this is about as simple from a math standpoint as you get...but typically people in those fields and similar like data...they're a bit OCD in analyzing such data and other things...they like keeping ledgers and spreadsheets for everything...they tend to be very detail oriented and analytical, etc.
Anyone can do this for sure...the math is super easy...but I think in general there's a certain type of personality that does well with calorie counting in particular...it's definitely not for everyone which is why there are so many different diet plans out there...for a lot of people, those are easier even though CICO is still in play whether they know it or not.
This is what I was talking about in my first post in this thread. CICO loving arguers are stuck in the same crude gear arguing on a nonargument. As someone else put it...majoring in minor? Trolling?
There's no argument from me re CICO. I have no problem or misunderstanding with it. Nothing complex about it. I just don't care for the jargon. It's crude as a term used for describing something. "Eat less, move more", "Eat less, exercise more" are better language, but none of these, CICO included, is significant a piece of info. or any real revelation for me.
It would be million times better if someone posted new insights, ways to make dieting better, more effortless, even that would only help a handful of people... That would be worthwhile.4 -
I think people just fail to see how simple it is, because the diet industry has plagued our brains with how not simple it is...
The diet industry is a multi-billion dollar fraud machine that doesn't want people to know how simple it is to lose weight. And they don't want people to succeed, it's bad for their business. They need people to believe that you need this supplement, this fad diet, this workout plan/video, this book or whatever to truly succeed, and that it's not as simple as just taking in less calories than you expend. Our society in general is very poorly educated about nutrition and the diet industry preys upon that.10
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