Question for...dancers maybe? Martial artists? Strong bendy people

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RedSquadronLeader
RedSquadronLeader Posts: 84 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Is anyone here capable of bringing their leg into a standing vertical split position and holding it there, unsupported? Clearly this (1) requires being able to do a forward split and (2) requiring a great deal of strength.

It's something I've been working on, but it's surprisingly hard to find good info on working towards it. Flexibility isn't a problem, but if anyone can do this and has good tips on building the required strength it would be much appreciated. Like -- once your leg is past horizontal to the floor everything shifts to the hip flexors -- how do you even?!

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  • xLyric
    xLyric Posts: 840 Member
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    This is coming from someone who can't even touch her toes, but it looks like supported and unsupported vertical splits have your torso in two very different positions. Are you adjusting for that or are you trying to do a supported split and take your hand away? I don't think I've ever seen a dancer do that for anything more than a quick movement.
  • RedSquadronLeader
    RedSquadronLeader Posts: 84 Member
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    I'm adjusting for it, or trying to anyways! If I do the supported-then-release I can feel the shift in my core, but I can't hold it, my leg falls. Slower than a dead drop but pretty quickly :).

    I suppose the hold position wouldn't quite me vertical splits, but pretty close to 180°...I know of at least two martial artists that can do it, granted they've been training since probably 2 years old. Maybe I'll never achieve it but I'm sure as heck going to try.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Check out fit and bendy. (that's the whole name) and Marlo Fiskan- from flow movement.

    They should be able to help you out.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    also- make friends with large wise (the more stable) yoga blocks- and your yoga strap- those should help.
  • RedSquadronLeader
    RedSquadronLeader Posts: 84 Member
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    Ahhh! Fit and Bendy looks amazing! Just the thing I've been looking for. Thanks!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    You're welcome :)
  • Saaski
    Saaski Posts: 105 Member
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    I can't do a full 180 unsupported for a sustained period of time, but I'm like 75-80% there? Enough so that my foot is my-own-head height. I've held this position for pictures. However, that is not a "full" front leg lift; I do cant my hips to the side (roundhouse kick position). I can kick straight up and down and toe-touch a pad held behind my head though. You do use different muscles for that. If you already have the flexibility, I would suggest doing prolonged-hold leg lifts. Lift a leg hold it for as long as you can, switch, repeat, to build up strength.

    Reference: I'm a martial artist, and I've been training since age 10.
  • EHollander89
    EHollander89 Posts: 169 Member
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    I'm a former ballerina, and that kind of strength will take a long time to develop. I don't dance anymore, and while I still have most of the flexibility, I discovered that the strength deteriorated much faster. Use it or lose it. I would also suggest you warm up and then practice your own form of adagio - slow, controlled, fluid extensions. Adagio was always my favorite! Best of luck!
  • RedSquadronLeader
    RedSquadronLeader Posts: 84 Member
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    @Saaski Thanks. I'm also in martial arts, looking to improve my showmanship in demos -- I've always been mostly interested in the "art" aspect anyways. It's interesting, I have a much easier time with holding my roundhouse/side kicks higher. I mean, I'm not yet close to where I'd like it to be, but I'm probably around 120 degrees on those. Much higher than my front! Guess I'll just keep leg-lifting =)

    @EHollander89 I'm envious of ballerinas. So when I try an extension, I usually bring my knee up to my chest but slightly turned out, and slowly try to straighten my leg while keeping my knee in the same position. Invariably it drops, and I can't hold a straight leg much (if at all) past 90 degrees. Does this seem like a problem with positioning or conditioning? Should I just keep doing it and expect very slow progress? I guess I'm confused I can squat/lunge/deadlift at least my body weight (in addition to my body weight, haha) so I feel like my strength should be adequate or at least close, and I'm wondering if my technique is off.
  • EHollander89
    EHollander89 Posts: 169 Member
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    In ballet the leg is turned out. I think you have the mechanics, you just need to build strength. You are working your muscles in a different way, so it'll take some time to develop.
  • tnm7760
    tnm7760 Posts: 109 Member
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    Ballerinas train their whole lives. That sort of strength will take a while. But don't forget to train other movements and muscles that will help support what you're trying to achieve. Ballerinas have incredible strength all over, not just in their hip flexors. I think you'll make more progress if you spend time on other ballet strength exercises, too. Google barre work.

    Also, your strength will almost always diminish before your max flexibility. In other words, if if you work on hyperextending your splits (front leg on a block) it will probably get easier to lift higher b cause you won't be lifting against tight muscles. If a ballerina can easily hold her leg straight up, chances are she's WAY more flexible than that if she does the splits on the floor. If someone can barely hold their leg horizontal, I'd guess that that 90 degree angle is the point where the "splits" are easy and don't pull. Does that make sense? So, you should have a comfortable oversplit on the ground--much farther than what you want to be able to lift your leg to.

    I wasn't a ballerina, but I grew up dancing and coaching cheer, and I have a family full of dancers (my daughter is a ballerina). So, hopefully that helps a bit.
  • tnm7760
    tnm7760 Posts: 109 Member
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    Just wanting to clarify , if your "comfortable" splits are flat on the ground, chances are chest height is about as far as you'll ever get your leg. Go for hyperextended/oversplits on the ground. Put a book under your front leg. When those get easy, add another book. And so on.


    Extreme flexibility PLUS the strength is what will help.
  • RedSquadronLeader
    RedSquadronLeader Posts: 84 Member
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    @tnm7760 Thanks! That's very helpful. I was working on oversplits but I've put a hold on that because I've read it's not great to get too big of a gap between static and static-active flexibility, as it destabilizes the joint when you're in the stretch, especially if your muscles try to contract a bit. So I'm trying to get static-active a bit higher; I've managed to stay major-injury free until 28 so I'd like to maintain that into my 30s :).

    I had a PT tell me I have "loose joints" or something to that effect...everything hyperextends easily so I have to be careful to keep it supported. But anyway, once I get it a little higher it's definitely back to oversplits.

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