Performance loss, cutting, and it getting worse before it gets better.

Geocitiesuser · May 2017

I have lost a "kitten-load" of weight, well over 130lbs at this point. I'm at a healthy weight right now, but my goal is to really shred down as much as I can. I'd like to, if possible, get down to single digit body fat % and maintain it for a couple of months to coerce my skin to tighten naturally as much as possible before moving onto other goals.

So here's the debate part:

I'm already getting the obvious: "you need to eat you're too thin" BS, but my martial arts instructor told me I need to eat more, because he believes for my fitness level I should have much more endurance. My belief is that it's natural to lose a little bit of performance (both endurance and strength) during the last leg of a cut to get really lean. I have, by my own estimates, ~15lbs to go to really shred down. I'm roughly 180ish and eating on average between 1700 and 1800 cals a day with ~180-190g protein netting me 1-1.5lbs of loss each week. I have not lost any strength in my lifts beyond a rep or two that could be attributed to other training/rest schedules etc.

So what are your thoughts. Is a small loss in strength and endurance acceptable and normal? Or do I really need to eat more?

(I'm not really concerned about performance right now, I have no upcoming tournaments, I'm not a power lifter, etc, just trying to look good lol)

Geocitiesuser · May 2017

Wrong forum to ask ?

raindawg · May 2017

I'm not an expert by any means but I've been through a weight loss cycle a few times now while lifting. Each time when I'm down to the last ten pounds or so I lose strength but some comes back once I go back on maintenance and fill that calorie deficit. I'd say if you aren't worried about performance stick with your goal and hit your weight. As for your martial arts instructor's comments, when you return to eating at maintenance I'd imagine your endurance will return and will be right in line with your fitness level.

bbell1985 · May 2017

I'd say you shouldn't be in a more than 250 calorie deficit though. Are you?

During the last leg of one of my cuts (I've been MUCH leaner than this), I had to reduce training volume as well. Cardio was little to none. I think I did some re-feeds as well.

But yeah, your training performance is not going to be it's best during this time. Is it worth it to you?

Geocitiesuser · May 2017

I guess my questions and beliefs were less controversial than I thought lol

Absolutely worth the performance loss. Tear it all down before I build it back up slowly. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon

I believe I'm at somewhere around a 350 calorie deficit because I'm losing on average 1-1.5lbs but the scale doesn't always do the same thing. People have told me to lower the deficit but after losing a consistent 2lbs a week for a year it's mentally challenging to slow the loss on purpose.

bbell1985 · May 2017

Geocitiesuser wrote: »

I guess my questions and beliefs were less controversial than I thought lol

Absolutely worth the performance loss. Tear it all down before I build it back up slowly. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon

I believe I'm at somewhere around a 350 calorie deficit because I'm losing on average 1-1.5lbs but the scale doesn't always do the same thing. People have told me to lower the deficit but after losing a consistent 2lbs a week for a year it's mentally challenging to slow the loss on purpose.

Look at it this way. It's easier to save muscle mass than to build it up. Reduce the deficit, lose less muscle, have a better body fat % and less work to do when it's time to bulk

Geocitiesuser · May 2017

My bro science is that I always used to be a "strong-fat". In college I had my big three over 1,000lbs. I honestly have absolutely no worries about losing muscle size in exchange for single digit bodyfat. Especially if "muscle memory" is real.

Besides, I have the rest of my life to work on it and have no one to impress but myself. All I want to do is tear this kitten down like Rome tore down Carthage. I have always hated being fat but was too stupid to get lean. Now I'm old, it's is sort of too late to actually reap the benefits of being fit, but... it's finally in view.

I don't think my next sparring tournament is until september at the earliest, with bigger ones in november and december. That gives me like 3 months to keep cutting hard, and like 2 months to go into maintenance and build back some performance.

I'm actually in a pretty sweet spot for weight class now. I'm deep enough into welterweight that I can gain a bit and still stay in the weight class. That's a first for me. It will be my first time not in the heavyweight division.

/rant off lul

tomteboda · May 2017

Geocitiesuser wrote: »

I guess my questions and beliefs were less controversial than I thought lol

Absolutely worth the performance loss. Tear it all down before I build it back up slowly. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon

I believe I'm at somewhere around a 350 calorie deficit because I'm losing on average 1-1.5lbs but the scale doesn't always do the same thing. People have told me to lower the deficit but after losing a consistent 2lbs a week for a year it's mentally challenging to slow the loss on purpose.

You are at a 500 to 750 calorie deficit if you are losing 1 to 1.5 lbs each week. It's pretty aggressive for someone of your height and weight, but I think you know that. Your goal is also pretty aggressive for a person who doesn't make their living off their body, and I think you know that too. As such, I wouldn't expect a lot of affirmation, more likely you'll get wary observation.

I hope you are working closely with your doctor because what you've described here and in other threads could be quite unhealthy.

deannalfisher · May 2017

personally, no I wouldn't want to sacrifice strength/endurance for aesthetics - but its about what your goals are

If I was you I would focus on a recomp rather than losing weight - because at some stage you will start losing lean muscle mass as well as fat

but as @tomteboda pointed out - if you are under the guidance of a doctor (or a registered dietician) you should be talking to them about this

WorshipHK · May 2017

I'm pretty sure it's normal to experience a loss in performance/endurance because you don't have as many calories to give you that extra energy your instructor is looking for.

My trainer has mentioned this before to my bf and I when explaining cut and bulking phases.

Geocitiesuser · May 2017

Your goal is also pretty aggressive for a person who doesn't make their living off their body, and I think you know that too.

Just to respond to this bit in specific, there is an amazing quote I always go back to that I find inspirational.

At this stage of my life I have nothing better to do than to push myself to the greatest boundaries I can. I'm not young, and thankfully not 'yet' old. Fitness, career, finance, those things consume all of my time. Maybe too extremes, but I've never done moderation well, and this is what keeps me happy. If I can have even just one taste of what it's like to be truly incredibly fit in my life, even if for just a fleeting moment, even if I died the next day, to me, after a lifetime of being the 'big guy', it would be worth it. For the first time, after many failed attempts, its in reach. One life to live. Seeing the sights doesn't always mean physical locations.

wackyfunster · May 2017

You'll lose both endurance and strength while on a cut. You'll get all of the endurance back when you switch to maintenance, but some of the strength will likely need to be regained through exercise+a bulk/recomp. You will also lose some off your lifts just due to having a larger range of motion (from less fat), and worse leverage due to less body mass (this is why you rarely see skinny power-lifters).

Performance loss, cutting, and it getting worse before it gets better.

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