How to Gain muscle while cutting

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Replies

  • Smidge22
    Smidge22 Posts: 46 Member
    I have already gain a lot weight. I want to start to cut
  • inertiastrength
    inertiastrength Posts: 2,343 Member
    unenhanced that's not possible
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,486 Member
    edited May 2017
    Yes 100% natural. I love the supporting nature on this thread. Your skepticism isn't warranted. I have no reason to make anything up. It is possible to do it. As unlikely as it normally would be there are exceptions to the rule and luckily I am one of them. Thank you for your assuming innocence and support.
    People make things up all the time to show they're "unique" when it comes to certain things. Again, science doesn't support your claim so why should it be believable?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,486 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Yes 100% natural. I love the supporting nature on this thread. Your skepticism isn't warranted. I have no reason to make anything up. It is possible to do it. As unlikely as it normally would be there are exceptions to the rule and luckily I am one of them. Thank you for your assuming innocence and support.

    I didn't assume anything, merely clarifying. And I'd think that you would understand the skepticism, seeing as how you yourself admit it's improbable and would normally be unlikely. It's a very extraordinary claim. Especially while consistently eating 1250 calories per day (as shown in your food diary), which is an extremely low level for a grown male, and working out 5-6 days a week. Unless you're very small, you're probably running about a 1500 calorie/day deficit at that intake level when you factor in the calories burned in your workouts.

    I have severe hypothyroidism. I have a very physical job and will put on fat weight at 1750 calories with exercise. Where most guys live on 2000-3000 calories my hypothyroidism makes me put on fat weight (quickly) if I go much above 1750 calories.
    But you're a pharmacy tech right? So you're not taking ANYTHING to combat your hypothyroidism? My wife has it and takes Synthroid at a precise dose to normalize daily function. Surely you're doing that as well?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    30 lb in 2 months, including a large loss due to a 10-day flu, and severe hypothyroidism?

    No, not happening. Heck, I doubt that would happen even if not natty.
  • xXGearheadXx
    xXGearheadXx Posts: 56 Member
    I have already gain a lot weight. I want to start to cut

    Sorry i think your thread got hijacked...lol.

    Time to cut then. Get in a calorie deficit and keep lifting heavy. Try to maintain your lifting routine (as in, try to keep the weight and volume up) as much as you can during the cut to minimize muscle loss.

    No need to cut carbs...you'll want those or your energy will go down the drain on your workouts.

    Best of luck. Cutting sucks but that's when the results of a long hard bulk show up.

  • Ironandwine69
    Ironandwine69 Posts: 2,432 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Yes 100% natural. I love the supporting nature on this thread. Your skepticism isn't warranted. I have no reason to make anything up. It is possible to do it. As unlikely as it normally would be there are exceptions to the rule and luckily I am one of them. Thank you for your assuming innocence and support.

    I didn't assume anything, merely clarifying. And I'd think that you would understand the skepticism, seeing as how you yourself admit it's improbable and would normally be unlikely. It's a very extraordinary claim. Especially while consistently eating 1250 calories per day (as shown in your food diary), which is an extremely low level for a grown male, and working out 5-6 days a week. Unless you're very small, you're probably running about a 1500 calorie/day deficit at that intake level when you factor in the calories burned in your workouts.

    I have severe hypothyroidism. I have a very physical job and will put on fat weight at 1750 calories with exercise. Where most guys live on 2000-3000 calories my hypothyroidism makes me put on fat weight (quickly) if I go much above 1750 calories.
    But you're a pharmacy tech right? So you're not taking ANYTHING to combat your hypothyroidism? My wife has it and takes Synthroid at a precise dose to normalize daily function. Surely you're doing that as well?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    How's being a pharmacy tech a very physical job? Those pills can't be that heavy.
    Okay I'm done splitting hairs.
  • EricExtreme
    EricExtreme Posts: 95 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Yes 100% natural. I love the supporting nature on this thread. Your skepticism isn't warranted. I have no reason to make anything up. It is possible to do it. As unlikely as it normally would be there are exceptions to the rule and luckily I am one of them. Thank you for your assuming innocence and support.

    I didn't assume anything, merely clarifying. And I'd think that you would understand the skepticism, seeing as how you yourself admit it's improbable and would normally be unlikely. It's a very extraordinary claim. Especially while consistently eating 1250 calories per day (as shown in your food diary), which is an extremely low level for a grown male, and working out 5-6 days a week. Unless you're very small, you're probably running about a 1500 calorie/day deficit at that intake level when you factor in the calories burned in your workouts.

    I have severe hypothyroidism. I have a very physical job and will put on fat weight at 1750 calories with exercise. Where most guys live on 2000-3000 calories my hypothyroidism makes me put on fat weight (quickly) if I go much above 1750 calories.
    But you're a pharmacy tech right? So you're not taking ANYTHING to combat your hypothyroidism? My wife has it and takes Synthroid at a precise dose to normalize daily function. Surely you're doing that as well?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    How's being a pharmacy tech a very physical job? Those pills can't be that heavy.
    Okay I'm done splitting hairs.

    I'm a certified pharmacy tech but manage a pharmaceutical retail store. Becoming a CPhT was a requirement to help out when they get busy. I spend most of my day moving around heavy boxes and doing inventory related procedures. I run around the store all day helping people and average close to 15,000 steps a day.
  • EricExtreme
    EricExtreme Posts: 95 Member
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,752 Member
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    There is a "licenced experienced professional" coach in my area who runs training camps where his clients regularly spout off about their massive muscle gains and bf% decrease in a few days training with him. It's all a load of bs. But they believe it because it sounds good - who wouldn't want to gain muscle and lose fat that easily and quickly?

    People are skeptical as what you are claiming is ridiculously unlikely. Why should we believe something that hasn't been proven or any evidence shown - people can say anything on the internet, including you!
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Some good info here: http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/

    I believe I saw this on either Bodyrecomposition Facebook Group, or ETP Facebook Group.

    Possibly worth creating a sticky in the Recomp thread too.
  • richardgavel
    richardgavel Posts: 1,001 Member
    Separate from the tone of the skepticism, there is value to it. The initial posts are generally the results of people asking questions and needing information. The best result is answers that are going to apply to the largest possible population (or have enough context to know when to apply if for narrow cases).
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


    Losing 30 pounds in 2 months on a 500 deficit, don't forget that part. 15 pounds in a month ~ just shy of 4 pounds per week, or a pound every other day. Because as the equation goes, 1000 calories = 1 pound of fat, right?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    edited May 2017
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


    Losing 30 pounds in 2 months on a 500 deficit, don't forget that part. 15 pounds in a month ~ just shy of 4 pounds per week, or a pound every other day. Because as the equation goes, 1000 calories = 1 pound of fat, right?

    Losing 30 pounds in two months is one thing. It may be realistic for somebody who's morbidly obese and has a LOT of weight to lose - but would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for somebody near a normal/healthy weight. And on a 500 calorie deficit the math definitely doesn't add up. Not even close.

    But simultaneously adding 4 inches to your biceps WHILE losing 30 pounds in two months? For the vast majority of grown men, adding 4 inches to your biceps would be going from very ordinary to approaching the extremes of your genetic potential. And to say that can happen in 8 weeks (especially while in a deficit sufficient to simultaneously lose 30 pounds) is a long stretch of the imagination, to say the very least.

    Skepticism may seem negative or unsupportive, but that's not at all how it's intended. It's not fair to create highly unrealistic expectations in other people who are asking for help here and want realistic answers. If EricExtreme provided verifiable before/after photos that prove his claims , I'd gladly give him a cyber high five and say "great job", because it would be a truly jaw-dropping accomplishment. Otherwise, anybody else reading this thread should take into consideration that such results are highly, highly unlikely and they should gauge their own expectations accordingly.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,388 MFP Moderator
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    In all fairness, being skeptical is a good thing. If we trusted everyone, then we would fall into every get rich quick scheme, fall for all the MLM diets and probably never be where we are today... I know I certainly wouldn't.

    Since I love math, we can look at a few things. You lost 30 lbs in 2 months (8 of which can be attributed to being sick). So if we back that out, you lost 22 lbs in 7 weeks (since you were sick for over a week, I am backing out a week) or roughly 3.14 lbs per week. Considering an average intake of 1250 by looking at your dairy (btw, you have amazing consistency), we can break down the math:

    Average weight loss per week: (22/7) = 3.14
    Average calorie intake: 1250
    Average deficit: (3.14 x 3500)/7 = 1570
    Average TDEE = 1250 + 1570 = 2820


    So the math actually tells me your actual EE is 2820, which is fairly common for a male (it would probably also promote that your meds are working effectively). Considering you have such a high deficit, it wouldn't be plausible that you gained muscle. Now, you did say you are coming off an injury, which does lend itself to some rebounding (where you can gain muscle to the point you previously were).

    Overall, I'd doubt your experience would be applicable to OP based on the various factors and studies just don't support what you have experienced. But it doesn't seem like you had any DEXA scans and they were all done by either Bioimpedance or tape measure.

    Ultimately, if you like your results, then whether you did or did not gain muscle is irrelevant.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    edited May 2017
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


    Very interesting article by Charles Poliquin here, which is relevant to the topic. According to that article, the general rule of thumb is that one has to gain about 15 pounds of evenly distributed lean body mass for every inch of upper arm/bicep growth. That would mean gaining 60 pounds for a 4" increase, not losing 30 pounds.
  • cityruss
    cityruss Posts: 2,493 Member
    Have you got your Olympia entry forms yet Eric?