How to Gain muscle while cutting

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  • Unknown
    Unknown
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  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Some good info here: http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/

    I believe I saw this on either Bodyrecomposition Facebook Group, or ETP Facebook Group.

    Possibly worth creating a sticky in the Recomp thread too.
  • richardgavel
    richardgavel Posts: 1,001 Member
    Separate from the tone of the skepticism, there is value to it. The initial posts are generally the results of people asking questions and needing information. The best result is answers that are going to apply to the largest possible population (or have enough context to know when to apply if for narrow cases).
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    EricExtreme wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    EricExtreme wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


    Losing 30 pounds in 2 months on a 500 deficit, don't forget that part. 15 pounds in a month ~ just shy of 4 pounds per week, or a pound every other day. Because as the equation goes, 1000 calories = 1 pound of fat, right?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited May 2017
    stevencloser wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    EricExtreme wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


    Losing 30 pounds in 2 months on a 500 deficit, don't forget that part. 15 pounds in a month ~ just shy of 4 pounds per week, or a pound every other day. Because as the equation goes, 1000 calories = 1 pound of fat, right?

    Losing 30 pounds in two months is one thing. It may be realistic for somebody who's morbidly obese and has a LOT of weight to lose - but would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for somebody near a normal/healthy weight. And on a 500 calorie deficit the math definitely doesn't add up. Not even close.

    But simultaneously adding 4 inches to your biceps WHILE losing 30 pounds in two months? For the vast majority of grown men, adding 4 inches to your biceps would be going from very ordinary to approaching the extremes of your genetic potential. And to say that can happen in 8 weeks (especially while in a deficit sufficient to simultaneously lose 30 pounds) is a long stretch of the imagination, to say the very least.

    Skepticism may seem negative or unsupportive, but that's not at all how it's intended. It's not fair to create highly unrealistic expectations in other people who are asking for help here and want realistic answers. If EricExtreme provided verifiable before/after photos that prove his claims , I'd gladly give him a cyber high five and say "great job", because it would be a truly jaw-dropping accomplishment. Otherwise, anybody else reading this thread should take into consideration that such results are highly, highly unlikely and they should gauge their own expectations accordingly.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    EricExtreme wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    In all fairness, being skeptical is a good thing. If we trusted everyone, then we would fall into every get rich quick scheme, fall for all the MLM diets and probably never be where we are today... I know I certainly wouldn't.

    Since I love math, we can look at a few things. You lost 30 lbs in 2 months (8 of which can be attributed to being sick). So if we back that out, you lost 22 lbs in 7 weeks (since you were sick for over a week, I am backing out a week) or roughly 3.14 lbs per week. Considering an average intake of 1250 by looking at your dairy (btw, you have amazing consistency), we can break down the math:

    Average weight loss per week: (22/7) = 3.14
    Average calorie intake: 1250
    Average deficit: (3.14 x 3500)/7 = 1570
    Average TDEE = 1250 + 1570 = 2820


    So the math actually tells me your actual EE is 2820, which is fairly common for a male (it would probably also promote that your meds are working effectively). Considering you have such a high deficit, it wouldn't be plausible that you gained muscle. Now, you did say you are coming off an injury, which does lend itself to some rebounding (where you can gain muscle to the point you previously were).

    Overall, I'd doubt your experience would be applicable to OP based on the various factors and studies just don't support what you have experienced. But it doesn't seem like you had any DEXA scans and they were all done by either Bioimpedance or tape measure.

    Ultimately, if you like your results, then whether you did or did not gain muscle is irrelevant.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited May 2017
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    EricExtreme wrote: »
    I have a challenge for everyone... this forum is for helping people... not jumping down people's throats when something doesn't agree with their opinion or values. There are always exceptions to the rules as human physiology can be complicated. People will believe that there is an invisible man in the sky that controls everything but someone has a weird metabolism and people go out of their way to try to tell him he is wrong when he knows his own body. Is it so hard to accept people on this forum at their word? What does contradicting them gain you? I know what I have accomplished and your trying to convince me otherwise will not be successful. I see it with my own eyes and have confirmation from a licensed athletic trainer from a local sports team that I know and has taken my measurements. In the future I suggest that you use the forum to help people instead of pontificating and trying to knock them down. I know it is hard for some people to wrap their mind around the thought that they aren't correct 100% of the time and that a stranger on the net could actually be correct. So a licensed athletic team trainer with several decades of experience and my own eyes knows less than someone making assumptions over the internet who can't accept someone at their word for reasons I can't fathom. You would be surprised how much better life is when the glass is half full at all times. I know what I have accomplished and what has been confirmed by a licensed experienced professional. Your skepticism won't change what I have accomplished and I am proud of it :) Find someone else to to step on to make yourself feel intellectually superior. I am done with this conversation. Ibid you a good day and hope that you can re-evaluate how you choose to treat people. Positivity and support makes life so much better than contradicting people. Ciao!

    sorry but skepticism in your wild claims does not indicate lack of support or negativity. When someone says that they dropped thirty pounds in two months, and packed on muscle, and by the way I was sick with the flu for ten of those two months, the BS meter around here is going to go off.


    Very interesting article by Charles Poliquin here, which is relevant to the topic. According to that article, the general rule of thumb is that one has to gain about 15 pounds of evenly distributed lean body mass for every inch of upper arm/bicep growth. That would mean gaining 60 pounds for a 4" increase, not losing 30 pounds.
  • cityruss
    cityruss Posts: 2,493 Member
    Have you got your Olympia entry forms yet Eric?
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