TDEE - Let's talk about it
RiffsnBarbells
Posts: 27 Member
So i was thinking about calculating my TDEE without any physical activity (no exercise, sedentary job etc) and setting that number as my calorie goal in MFP. Then I can sync Google Fit to MFP to calculate approximately how many calories I burn throughout the day.
Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end? Does anyone see any problem with this? Is there a better way?
Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end? Does anyone see any problem with this? Is there a better way?
0
Replies
-
That sounds like it might give you the most accurate TDEE, but if you're trying to lose weight rather than maintain, it might get a little tricky figuring out how much you should eat. I guess you could do it that way and then just eat 500 or 250 calories below what MFP tells you to eat (depending on whether you want to lose one pound or half a pound per week) but that seems like making it overly complicated to me. If you're trying to lose weight, I'd let MFP calculate a goal for you based on the settings you mentioned and let your Google Fit tweak the goal as needed.0
-
Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?9
-
Pretty much that's what MFP is giving. The most accurate TDEE will be calculated by your results over time whether losing, gaining or maintaining. Real world results trump every single population based average.6
-
no that is not TDEE....TDEE is Total Daily energy expenditure...not partial daily or as malibu said that's neat...
To get an accurate TDEE you need 3-4 weeks of logging carefully and consistently, your exercise logged and then this formula.
(total calories consumed+weight lost in lbs x 3500)/#days
That gives you your TDEE but that is also an ever changing number depending on workouts....
0 -
piranha420 wrote: »So i was thinking about calculating my TDEE without any physical activity (no exercise, sedentary job etc) and setting that number as my calorie goal in MFP. Then I can sync Google Fit to MFP to calculate approximately how many calories I burn throughout the day.
Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end? Does anyone see any problem with this? Is there a better way?
That's what MFP already does...MFP is your NEAT (which is your TDEE without exercise). By definition TDEE should include all of your activity, including exercise.0 -
Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.0 -
no that is not TDEE....TDEE is Total Daily energy expenditure...not partial daily or as malibu said that's neat...
To get an accurate TDEE you need 3-4 weeks of logging carefully and consistently, your exercise logged and then this formula.
(total calories consumed+weight lost in lbs x 3500)/#days
That gives you your TDEE but that is also an ever changing number depending on workouts....
I get that, but the way that you're calculating it will only tell you your TDEE in hindsight, ie the last 3-4 weeks. Who's to say that will be indicative of the next 3-4? Life is never that consistent for me. I only brought up this idea because it seemed like it might be able to give me my daily energy expenditure on a daily basis.0 -
piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.
You would have the exact same issue with using a TDEE number without exercise (which is your NEAT). The only difference between NEAT and TDEE is where you account for exercise...the methods are 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.3 -
That sounds like it might give you the most accurate TDEE, but if you're trying to lose weight rather than maintain, it might get a little tricky figuring out how much you should eat. I guess you could do it that way and then just eat 500 or 250 calories below what MFP tells you to eat (depending on whether you want to lose one pound or half a pound per week) but that seems like making it overly complicated to me. If you're trying to lose weight, I'd let MFP calculate a goal for you based on the settings you mentioned and let your Google Fit tweak the goal as needed.
That's kind of what I was thinking. I only eat early dinner (IF 4 lyfe) so figuring out how many calories to eat after most of my day is over is the easy part.
Thanks for your input.0 -
piranha420 wrote: »no that is not TDEE....TDEE is Total Daily energy expenditure...not partial daily or as malibu said that's neat...
To get an accurate TDEE you need 3-4 weeks of logging carefully and consistently, your exercise logged and then this formula.
(total calories consumed+weight lost in lbs x 3500)/#days
That gives you your TDEE but that is also an ever changing number depending on workouts....
I get that, but the way that you're calculating it will only tell you your TDEE in hindsight, ie the last 3-4 weeks. Who's to say that will be indicative of the next 3-4? Life is never that consistent for me. I only brought up this idea because it seemed like it might be able to give me my daily energy expenditure on a daily basis.
that is why TDEE is typically used by those who have a set schedule of exercise ....
you can change your daily target here if you have premium but you are really over complicating it.
I lost weight logging my food and my exercise and eating back exercise calories consistently and I lost it using a TDEE number too...
if you can't guarantee you will be working out...then stick with NEAT and eat back exercise calories...1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.
You would have the exact same issue with using a TDEE number without exercise (which is your NEAT). The only difference between NEAT and TDEE is where you account for exercise...the methods are 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
But doesn't NEAT still take into account your daily activity level? What if that changes wildly from day to day?
"You can expend calories in one two ways. One is to go to the gym and the other is through all the activities of daily living called NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis).”
Won't "lazy bum" TDEE numbers with my actual daily activity added on work better? Some days I literally sit behind a desk all day, the next I might be hauling equipment. Wouldn't this fall under NEAT?0 -
piranha420 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.
You would have the exact same issue with using a TDEE number without exercise (which is your NEAT). The only difference between NEAT and TDEE is where you account for exercise...the methods are 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
But doesn't NEAT still take into account your daily activity level? What if that changes wildly from day to day?
"You can expend calories in one two ways. One is to go to the gym and the other is through all the activities of daily living called NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis).”
Won't "lazy bum" TDEE numbers with my actual daily activity added on work better? Some days I literally sit behind a desk all day, the next I might be hauling equipment. Wouldn't this fall under NEAT?
again over complicating it...
why not just take the average NEAT for the week and use that number
Lazy bum NEAT numbers + Actual activity(non exercise) =NEAT+Exercise=TDEE0 -
piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end?
That's basically what MFP does. Where do you see the improvement for accuracy?0 -
piranha420 wrote: »no that is not TDEE....TDEE is Total Daily energy expenditure...not partial daily or as malibu said that's neat...
To get an accurate TDEE you need 3-4 weeks of logging carefully and consistently, your exercise logged and then this formula.
(total calories consumed+weight lost in lbs x 3500)/#days
That gives you your TDEE but that is also an ever changing number depending on workouts....
I get that, but the way that you're calculating it will only tell you your TDEE in hindsight, ie the last 3-4 weeks. Who's to say that will be indicative of the next 3-4? Life is never that consistent for me. I only brought up this idea because it seemed like it might be able to give me my daily energy expenditure on a daily basis.
that is why TDEE is typically used by those who have a set schedule of exercise ....
you can change your daily target here if you have premium but you are really over complicating it.
I lost weight logging my food and my exercise and eating back exercise calories consistently and I lost it using a TDEE number too...
if you can't guarantee you will be working out...then stick with NEAT and eat back exercise calories...
I can maintain consistency at the gym, thats within my power. I can't always decide what I am doing at work. This is, unfortunately, a problem with using both NEAT and TDEE from what I understand.
I think the terms are mixing everyone (especially me) up. Let me rephrase and ask my question a different way; Wouldn't it be more accurate to take your RMR and accurately measure your calorie expenditure throughout the day than to just take your TDEE or NEAT number and run with it? Wouldn't that give you a more accurate TDEE (which you could actually see daily?)
More importantly is Google Fit that accurate? Am I missing something with my line of thinking?0 -
You really need to take a much longer view of things - attempting to micro manage yourself to that degree isn't necessary or even desirable. Really think you are setting yourself up for a load of anxiety for no good reason.
Lets say one week your activity level is sedentary and the next it's active - so just split the difference and call yourself lightly active.
3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end?
That's basically what MFP does. Where do you see the improvement for accuracy?
In the fluctuations of daily non gym activity. If I only use one number I naturally yo-yo diet due to the nature of my job.0 -
You really need to take a much longer view of things - attempting to micro manage yourself to that degree isn't necessary or even desirable. Really think you are setting yourself up for a load of anxiety for no good reason.
Lets say one week your activity level is sedentary and the next it's active - so just split the difference and call yourself lightly active.
That would be fine if we were talking about a week to week basis, but we are talking months.
It really isn't micromanaging though. It's wear my smart watch during the day, a HRM at the gym and press the button on my watch to start the workout. Then I just need to decide if I have enough room for seconds or not based on calories expended that day. Really logging the food is by far the most tedious part.0 -
piranha420 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.
You would have the exact same issue with using a TDEE number without exercise (which is your NEAT). The only difference between NEAT and TDEE is where you account for exercise...the methods are 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
But doesn't NEAT still take into account your daily activity level? What if that changes wildly from day to day?
"You can expend calories in one two ways. One is to go to the gym and the other is through all the activities of daily living called NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis).”
Won't "lazy bum" TDEE numbers with my actual daily activity added on work better? Some days I literally sit behind a desk all day, the next I might be hauling equipment. Wouldn't this fall under NEAT?
If it changes wildly from day to day I don't see how you wouldn't have the same issue with TDEE. Your TDEE (without exercise) on a slow day would be less than on an active day...just as it would be with NEAT.
Again, the methods are 6 of 1...the only difference between the methods is where exercise is accounted for.
My TDEE is around 2800 calories right now (includes exercise), meaning I'd need about 2300 calories to lose about 1 Lb per week.
According to MFP, my NEAT (TDEE without exercise) is around 2300 calories, so I'd get a calorie target of 1800 calories to lose about 1 Lb per week...if I exercise and burn 500 calories I then eat 2400 calories which is pretty close to what I would eat with the TDEE method...
I'm not sure how your coming up with one being better than the other when your activity level swings substantially...I'd think you'd have the same issue either way.3 -
piranha420 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end?
That's basically what MFP does. Where do you see the improvement for accuracy?
In the fluctuations of daily non gym activity. If I only use one number I naturally yo-yo diet due to the nature of my job.
If your daily activity level is wildly variable, perhaps choose one of the middle choices (like lightly active or the next one up), eat that way for 3-4 weeks, and see how you feel and what your weight does. You''l theoretically be eating a little less than you need on some days, and a little more than you need on others. Then tweak it if you need to. And if any day turns out to be super active and you feel like you need fuel, eat a small calorie controlled snack.
Barring wearing lab equipment at work to determine the calories you are burning there from day to day, there is really no way to be much more accurate than that I don't think!0 -
NEAT is before any activity at all. If you are using a tracker, enable negative calorie adjustments and then if your baseline falls under what is expected it will exclude some calories. But really, over time, it all comes out in the wash and as said above, you can use real world results over time. Like over 6 months you will get an idea of what all those activity fluctuations require calorie wise.
You are making this a lot harder than it needs to be. A lot harder. You're just going to tie yourself up in knots.
My days vary wildly depending on how I'm doing health wise. I just let my tracker take care of it. Everything to with my weight is as expected. Easy peasy.1 -
You really need to take a much longer view of things - attempting to micro manage yourself to that degree isn't necessary or even desirable. Really think you are setting yourself up for a load of anxiety for no good reason.
Lets say one week your activity level is sedentary and the next it's active - so just split the difference and call yourself lightly active.
I know I already said take the average over a week or ever 3...you get a pretty good number...
nothing will be perfect but it's better than trying to figure all this out...wow.1 -
piranha420 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.
You would have the exact same issue with using a TDEE number without exercise (which is your NEAT). The only difference between NEAT and TDEE is where you account for exercise...the methods are 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
But doesn't NEAT still take into account your daily activity level? What if that changes wildly from day to day?
Set MFP based on activity level being sedentary and then use Fitbit or Google Fit (I'm assuming it is similar) and logged non step based exercise to determine daily TDEE.
That is how MFP works.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »NEAT is before any activity at all. If you are using a tracker, enable negative calorie adjustments and then if your baseline falls under what is expected it will exclude some calories. But really, over time, it all comes out in the wash and as said above, you can use real world results over time. Like over 6 months you will get an idea of what all those activity fluctuations require calorie wise.
You are making this a lot harder than it needs to be. A lot harder. You're just going to tie yourself up in knots.
My days vary wildly depending on how I'm doing health wise. I just let my tracker take care of it. Everything to with my weight is as expected. Easy peasy.
bolded part is false.
NEAT is defined as
Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
0 -
Does your job have busier days every week? Why not just eat a couple hundred more on those days, sort of like exercise calories? Track your intake over a period of a week instead of daily. You're trying to be too exact, and few of us have the exact same amount of activity/exercise on a day to day basis.
I've found that a range of calories works best for me. I eat a couple hundred more on really active days, not many hundred more - so it all kind of balances out over a week's time. Just pick one, TDEE (with no added exercise calories used) OR MFP's NEAT method, where you add in extra on exercise days. Stick with one method long enough to establish a pattern of weight management; so a month or two. It really doesn't matter which you use, they are the same in the big picture.
In the end, it's about finding some range of calories that works for your particular life, not what any of us say. It's about you keeping track over TIME and adjusting when necessary. Even Google Fit or FitBit or any other calculator is an estimate based on a swath of people.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »NEAT is before any activity at all. If you are using a tracker, enable negative calorie adjustments and then if your baseline falls under what is expected it will exclude some calories. But really, over time, it all comes out in the wash and as said above, you can use real world results over time. Like over 6 months you will get an idea of what all those activity fluctuations require calorie wise.
You are making this a lot harder than it needs to be. A lot harder. You're just going to tie yourself up in knots.
My days vary wildly depending on how I'm doing health wise. I just let my tracker take care of it. Everything to with my weight is as expected. Easy peasy.
bolded part is false.
NEAT is defined as
Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
Sorry you are correct, I did mean a baseline of just living, BMR is the not anything at all. Rightly pointed out!
And if one turns on negative adjustments, aside from sedentary, whatever activity level you pick will adjust accordingly.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »NEAT is before any activity at all. If you are using a tracker, enable negative calorie adjustments and then if your baseline falls under what is expected it will exclude some calories. But really, over time, it all comes out in the wash and as said above, you can use real world results over time. Like over 6 months you will get an idea of what all those activity fluctuations require calorie wise.
You are making this a lot harder than it needs to be. A lot harder. You're just going to tie yourself up in knots.
My days vary wildly depending on how I'm doing health wise. I just let my tracker take care of it. Everything to with my weight is as expected. Easy peasy.
I don't think the bolded is true is it? I thought NEAT was basically just non gym calories + RMR (so it still takes into account normal daily activity). If you use NEAT and a pedometer that adjusts MFP, wouldn't the numbers be off?
Other than that you and I are talking about similar things. Essentially just using RMR while actually measuring both daily and gym activity with a tracker0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't that basically be NEAT, which is what MFP gives you pre-exercise?
But if you use NEAT, you're still using a stagnant number. What if I am very active one week and then not so much the next? Sometimes my job is very sedentary, but other times I'm hauling equipment back and fourth all day. There's a lot of grey area in NEAT and I guess that's what I am trying to figure out.
You would have the exact same issue with using a TDEE number without exercise (which is your NEAT). The only difference between NEAT and TDEE is where you account for exercise...the methods are 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.
But doesn't NEAT still take into account your daily activity level? What if that changes wildly from day to day?
"You can expend calories in one two ways. One is to go to the gym and the other is through all the activities of daily living called NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis).”
Won't "lazy bum" TDEE numbers with my actual daily activity added on work better? Some days I literally sit behind a desk all day, the next I might be hauling equipment. Wouldn't this fall under NEAT?
If it changes wildly from day to day I don't see how you wouldn't have the same issue with TDEE. Your TDEE (without exercise) on a slow day would be less than on an active day...just as it would be with NEAT.
Again, the methods are 6 of 1...the only difference between the methods is where exercise is accounted for.
My TDEE is around 2800 calories right now (includes exercise), meaning I'd need about 2300 calories to lose about 1 Lb per week.
According to MFP, my NEAT (TDEE without exercise) is around 2300 calories, so I'd get a calorie target of 1800 calories to lose about 1 Lb per week...if I exercise and burn 500 calories I then eat 2400 calories which is pretty close to what I would eat with the TDEE method...
I'm not sure how your coming up with one being better than the other when your activity level swings substantially...I'd think you'd have the same issue either way.
You would have the same issue with TDEE - if youre using a TDEE calculator. What I am asking about is getting a MORE accurate TDEE by measuring your RMR (which is what I meant by lazy TDEE) and using trackers to actually gage how many calories are going out.
You're kind of proving my point that TDEE and NEAT have similar accuracy issues. With todays technology we should all be on some next level Ivan Drago stuff here, not using generalized calculators that leave no room for grey area0 -
piranha420 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end?
That's basically what MFP does. Where do you see the improvement for accuracy?
In the fluctuations of daily non gym activity. If I only use one number I naturally yo-yo diet due to the nature of my job.
The MFP approach accounts for daily non-gym activity. You explicitly deal with your exercise (eg I biked 30 minutes last night running errands) and you sync a pedometer to account for your walking for you. I don't understand how your approach is different?0 -
I have a desk job but I also walk 13K steps in a day because i walk to get morning coffee and for 30 minutes on lunch plus breaks. Throughout the workday I'll get up to about 8K which isn't even close to sedentary so just set your activity level correctly (even if you happen to sit at a desk for work) and you should be fine. My Fitbit data and rate of loss are pretty accurate. Like a previous poster mentioned, you need about a month of data (to account for natural fluctuations etc) and look at your rate of loss.0
-
NorthCascades wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »piranha420 wrote: »Wouldn't this give me the most accurate TDEE in the end?
That's basically what MFP does. Where do you see the improvement for accuracy?
In the fluctuations of daily non gym activity. If I only use one number I naturally yo-yo diet due to the nature of my job.
The MFP approach accounts for daily non-gym activity. You explicitly deal with your exercise (eg I biked 30 minutes last night running errands) and you sync a pedometer to account for your walking for you. I don't understand how your approach is different?
If NEAT (the MFP approach) accounts for you walking already, then adding steps via a pedometer is making your calorie pool inaccurate.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions