Assisted Pull-Ups is it cheating
ironkid55
Posts: 23 Member
I weigh 300 pounds and I can't do a pull-up on my own but I can do a pull-up if I use the assisted pull-up machine at my gym is that cheating or am I still working the muscles that I need to to eventually do one unassisted
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Replies
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You are working the muscles. I have no idea what you are asking as far as cheating goes. Cheating has nothing to do with it.2
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That's pretty much the point of the assisted pull-up machine. I don't think you can call it a real pull-up though for bragging rights, but, it definitely still helps you get there.
When I weighed 140 lbs, I could finally do pull-ups, up to around 10. I could also bicep curl 120 lbs.. lol Man, that sounds crazy now. I used to be pretty fit.. lol. I wish I still owned weights.
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Work your way there! I'm also working on it!1
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It's not cheating...it's meant to help you perform pull-ups with assistance; the idea is that you progressively require less assistance until you can do bodyweight pull-ups. However if I were you, I'd start doing negatives to help eventually get pull-ups. Use a box and jump so that your chin is over the bar and then slowly lower yourself until you are hanging with arms straightened (dead hang). I am a firm believer that negatives are the best exercise to help a person out that wants to be able to do pull ups.1
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i started out at 324 never been able to do 1 pull up on my own , i use the assisted pull up machine and started out on the highest weigh, now im down to 240 and i still use the assisted pull up machine, im down to 100 pounds on the machine, sooner or later hopefully sooner i will do them on my own, but i will still use the assisted pull up machine, you can get a real good burn and a real good squeeze using the assisted pull up machine, for my back work out i like to start out with assisted pull up machine, then i do reverse grip bar bell rows, after that rack pulls, and to finish off with stiff arm pull downs with the rope, good luck0
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not cheating. work those muscles.1
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i don't think it's cheating [can't do a full pullup myself], but personally i never use it. i was doing eccentrics/negatives for a while, until i sprained something tiny under one shoulderblade doing the jump.
after that i moved to the lat pulldown thing.1 -
I use this machine at my gym and am slowly shaving off the help. I'll get an unassisted one eventually!1
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Not cheating!!0
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It's a start, keep improving.
When I work out I do as many as I can without assistance, then crank out as many assisted.
Gets easier each week1 -
maranarasauce93 wrote: »It's not cheating...it's meant to help you perform pull-ups with assistance; the idea is that you progressively require less assistance until you can do bodyweight pull-ups. However if I were you, I'd start doing negatives to help eventually get pull-ups. Use a box and jump so that your chin is over the bar and then slowly lower yourself until you are hanging with arms straightened (dead hang). I am a firm believer that negatives are the best exercise to help a person out that wants to be able to do pull ups.
I do agree that negatives are a good way to build up to pull ups however if you're overweight I don't think you should do them. The OP said he is 300lbs so im going to take a shot in the dark and assume he's 80 to 100lbs from a healthy weight range, give or take. You don't even see people who are gym vets doing weighted pull ups with 80lbs, usually. So going the assisted pull up route to me is the best option. Again I do agree negatives are a good way to build up to pull ups on your own if your only issue is not being able to do a pull up.
@ OP you are still working the muscles so keep doing them.5 -
if you are going to use the machine at least make sure it is challenging...I see far too many people at the gym have close to their body weight on the machine and they look like they are literally just riding a ride - not actually lifting anything.1
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I started with the assisted machine, gradually reduced the amount of assistance...until I could do 1 unassisted...then 3...then 5...eventually 12. Also, I once did a 47.5lbs weighted chin-up. That was 15lbs ago though...can only do 8 unweighted now. So it's not cheating if you use it to progressively add weight.1
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Assisted Pull-Ups are no more cheating than starting squats with an empty bar, than starting Military Presses with 10 pound dumbbells (if that's the heaviest you can do), than starting Push-Ups from the knee position. Everyone has to start somewhere. You start at a weight you can do and PROGRESS from there. Keep up the good work, congrats on the start.4
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broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »maranarasauce93 wrote: »It's not cheating...it's meant to help you perform pull-ups with assistance; the idea is that you progressively require less assistance until you can do bodyweight pull-ups. However if I were you, I'd start doing negatives to help eventually get pull-ups. Use a box and jump so that your chin is over the bar and then slowly lower yourself until you are hanging with arms straightened (dead hang). I am a firm believer that negatives are the best exercise to help a person out that wants to be able to do pull ups.
I do agree that negatives are a good way to build up to pull ups however if you're overweight I don't think you should do them. The OP said he is 300lbs so im going to take a shot in the dark and assume he's 80 to 100lbs from a healthy weight range, give or take. You don't even see people who are gym vets doing weighted pull ups with 80lbs, usually. So going the assisted pull up route to me is the best option. Again I do agree negatives are a good way to build up to pull ups on your own if your only issue is not being able to do a pull up.
@ OP you are still working the muscles so keep doing them.
This
I normally push people away from machines and encourage as much work as possible without them. But jumping to the bar or doing negatives when very overweight (or lack the strength) is a great way to destroy your shoulder/elbows (and many things).
Keep on the assisted machine, just be sure that you are progressing with it. Also check your form. Keep the hands relatively wide. Head held high (not tucked down into your neck), etc. Engage your abs. Nice and slow. Maybe watch a video. Get the form down now so that you can rock a "real" pull up later. Oh, and if you're not already, consider adding in some other pulling exercises to build your back.
Eventually you'll improve to the point where you can add in negatives and all sorts of fun things. And eventually you'll be able to do a pull up!2 -
broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »maranarasauce93 wrote: »It's not cheating...it's meant to help you perform pull-ups with assistance; the idea is that you progressively require less assistance until you can do bodyweight pull-ups. However if I were you, I'd start doing negatives to help eventually get pull-ups. Use a box and jump so that your chin is over the bar and then slowly lower yourself until you are hanging with arms straightened (dead hang). I am a firm believer that negatives are the best exercise to help a person out that wants to be able to do pull ups.
I do agree that negatives are a good way to build up to pull ups however if you're overweight I don't think you should do them. The OP said he is 300lbs so im going to take a shot in the dark and assume he's 80 to 100lbs from a healthy weight range, give or take. You don't even see people who are gym vets doing weighted pull ups with 80lbs, usually. So going the assisted pull up route to me is the best option. Again I do agree negatives are a good way to build up to pull ups on your own if your only issue is not being able to do a pull up.
@ OP you are still working the muscles so keep doing them.
This
I normally push people away from machines and encourage as much work as possible without them. But jumping to the bar or doing negatives when very overweight (or lack the strength) is a great way to destroy your shoulder/elbows (and many things).
Keep on the assisted machine, just be sure that you are progressing with it. Also check your form. Keep the hands relatively wide. Head held high (not tucked down into your neck), etc. Engage your abs. Nice and slow. Maybe watch a video. Get the form down now so that you can rock a "real" pull up later. Oh, and if you're not already, consider adding in some other pulling exercises to build your back.
Eventually you'll improve to the point where you can add in negatives and all sorts of fun things. And eventually you'll be able to do a pull up!
Totally agree, also, learn what it means and feels like to pack your shoulders.
And with the other back/shoulder exercises you'll be able to push yourself differently than with assisted pullups.0 -
So have you actually gotten on the machine?
I had a client once who was VERY over weight- and the counter weight was barely enough for him- and he almost ripped his arms out of his sockets when he put his weight on it because he didn't realize he needed to check to see if it was going to support him.
Just make sure it's got enough counterbalance for you.
Being said- once you confirm that its' adequate- do them if you're clear. Most of the big body builders in my gym use the assisted pull up- real pull ups are difficult b/c they are so much heavier- so they cant' do the volume they need to do train their back- so they use assisted.
Definitely not cheating.2 -
Assisted Pull-Ups are no more cheating than starting squats with an empty bar, than starting Military Presses with 10 pound dumbbells (if that's the heaviest you can do), than starting Push-Ups from the knee position. Everyone has to start somewhere. You start at a weight you can do and PROGRESS from there. Keep up the good work, congrats on the start.
I have had to modify almost every exercise that I started with, but I am seeing progress so do what you can safely do and keep at it- and you will get stronger. Keep up the awesome work!1 -
Only cheating if someone else is doing them for you.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Girl_With_Muscles_ wrote: »I'm don't teach people pull ups using the machine and here's why.
You're knees are resting on a plate so you're not engaging your core and other muscles as much as you could be doing. Sure, you're working the muscles but there are a lot of other muscles you could be working as well.. Besides, the machine doesn't give you the feeling of a full pull up
So here's what I teach:
When you start, find a bar and a box. hold the bar and jump up, use your hands to slowly lower yourself down and keep your lower body as still as you can wile you do that. If that's easy... find an exercise band
Now here's when things get fun Here's where you actually do a pull up and get the feeling that you're doing them. Step into the band with one leg, keep the band between your hands and lift your weight up.
You can get bands with different levels of strength so you can progress fast with this one and it engages all your muscles.
When you're doing the pull up make sure you don't swing (unless your trying to do the kipping pull ups which you shouldn't be doing unless you can do a dead hanging one), keep your core tight, your shoulder blades pinched behind you and again, try keeping your body still..
The pull up is so fun to master and a huge barrier to get over. I really hope you get a non assisted pull up soon cause it's such a triumph.
having a 300 pound man jump to a bar and hang there is a great way to f**k someone's shoulders up- you should probably re-evaluate that technique.3 -
You got up, went to the gym and exercised.........youre the winner.......I used to be your weight, and started out small, and even had a piece of equipment that helped me do sit ups.........I was just too big to do them on my own
through out time, I got to where I could.....again, if its a tool, use it.........before you know it, youll be doing them on your own........and congratulations on going to the gym.....thats half the battle1 -
Girl_With_Muscles_ wrote: »I'm don't teach people pull ups using the machine and here's why.
You're knees are resting on a plate so you're not engaging your core and other muscles as much as you could be doing. Sure, you're working the muscles but there are a lot of other muscles you could be working as well.. Besides, the machine doesn't give you the feeling of a full pull up
So here's what I teach:
When you start, find a bar and a box. hold the bar and jump up, use your hands to slowly lower yourself down and keep your lower body as still as you can wile you do that. If that's easy... find an exercise band
Now here's when things get fun Here's where you actually do a pull up and get the feeling that you're doing them. Step into the band with one leg, keep the band between your hands and lift your weight up.
You can get bands with different levels of strength so you can progress fast with this one and it engages all your muscles.
When you're doing the pull up make sure you don't swing (unless your trying to do the kipping pull ups which you shouldn't be doing unless you can do a dead hanging one), keep your core tight, your shoulder blades pinched behind you and again, try keeping your body still..
The pull up is so fun to master and a huge barrier to get over. I really hope you get a non assisted pull up soon cause it's such a triumph.
having a 300 pound man jump to a bar and hang there is a great way to f**k someone's shoulders up- you should probably re-evaluate that technique.
especially if that 300 pound man has never done a pullup.
If that 300 lb man was drew carey(a former marine) it might not be so bad. If it's Joey Bagadonuts yeah, its an awful idea.
Note: I didn't say it would be a good idea for Drew Carey, just much less bad.3 -
So have you actually gotten on the machine?
I had a client once who was VERY over weight- and the counter weight was barely enough for him- and he almost ripped his arms out of his sockets when he put his weight on it because he didn't realize he needed to check to see if it was going to support him.
Just make sure it's got enough counterbalance for you.
Being said- once you confirm that its' adequate- do them if you're clear. Most of the big body builders in my gym use the assisted pull up- real pull ups are difficult b/c they are so much heavier- so they cant' do the volume they need to do train their back- so they use assisted.
Definitely not cheating.
If it's not adequate, you're back to doing cable pulldowns until you can get to a point where the counterweight is sufficient.1 -
I have a pull up bar in my laundry room and I put my feet on top of the washer to 'cheat'. Well guess what, I went from 0 unassisted pull ups 1 chin up to 3 pull ups 6 chin ups in 2 months by 'cheating'. Now I'm working from there0
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stanmann571 wrote: »So have you actually gotten on the machine?
I had a client once who was VERY over weight- and the counter weight was barely enough for him- and he almost ripped his arms out of his sockets when he put his weight on it because he didn't realize he needed to check to see if it was going to support him.
Just make sure it's got enough counterbalance for you.
Being said- once you confirm that its' adequate- do them if you're clear. Most of the big body builders in my gym use the assisted pull up- real pull ups are difficult b/c they are so much heavier- so they cant' do the volume they need to do train their back- so they use assisted.
Definitely not cheating.
If it's not adequate, you're back to doing cable pulldowns until you can get to a point where the counterweight is sufficient.
yeppers.
I had to do pull ups in college for my PT test- I used to do lat pull downs to train. I did a lot of lat pull downs. LMAO.
I passed my PT test.0 -
Girl_With_Muscles_ wrote: »Girl_With_Muscles_ wrote: »I'm don't teach people pull ups using the machine and here's why.
You're knees are resting on a plate so you're not engaging your core and other muscles as much as you could be doing. Sure, you're working the muscles but there are a lot of other muscles you could be working as well.. Besides, the machine doesn't give you the feeling of a full pull up
So here's what I teach:
When you start, find a bar and a box. hold the bar and jump up, use your hands to slowly lower yourself down and keep your lower body as still as you can wile you do that. If that's easy... find an exercise band
Now here's when things get fun Here's where you actually do a pull up and get the feeling that you're doing them. Step into the band with one leg, keep the band between your hands and lift your weight up.
You can get bands with different levels of strength so you can progress fast with this one and it engages all your muscles.
When you're doing the pull up make sure you don't swing (unless your trying to do the kipping pull ups which you shouldn't be doing unless you can do a dead hanging one), keep your core tight, your shoulder blades pinched behind you and again, try keeping your body still..
The pull up is so fun to master and a huge barrier to get over. I really hope you get a non assisted pull up soon cause it's such a triumph.
having a 300 pound man jump to a bar and hang there is a great way to f**k someone's shoulders up- you should probably re-evaluate that technique.
I'm in Europe. We have kg. I didn't google how much 300 lbs was in kg but now I know it's almost 137 kg so no. I would not recommend jumping off a box to hang on a bar for a man or woman that big. Thanks for pointing that out.
understandable mistake (I get mixed up on peoples 1RMP sometimes b/c of kg)0 -
Im doing arnold Schwarzenegger golden 6 for a month and pull up are part of it so i jump on the machine so i could do the exercise im doing 6 assisted and i plan lowering the wait next week im also doing qigong and tai chi on my off days i hope im doing the rhight thing (op here)0
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