What Zone Do You Do Cardio In?
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All of them of course at different times - because it depends on my training objective for that workout.
One zone isn't better than any other, they all have their uses.4 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »Whatever I need to do to support the objectives of my session.
Aerobic capacity Vs threshold training Vs VO2MAX improvement all have different approaches.
^^ This.
OP - Since my focus is on endurance events, I spend a lot of time training in Z2. My coach will test my HR zones for both run and bike and occasionally tweak my HR zones to be sure I'm dialed in to the proper HR for each training session. Z4 work usually only happens for me during speed workouts on the track.
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bcalvanese wrote: »I have a motto...
If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.
I like to stay in zone 4 (80 - 90 % of MHR) and zone 5 (90 - 100 % of MHR) on my intense workouts, and have been known to be in zone 5 for up to an hour total during these workouts.
I have read that it is not recommended to stay in zone 5 for long periods of time, so I asked my cardiologist about it when I went there to go over the results of a stress test I had done recently.
He told me it is absolutely fine to do this and it is probably the reason that my stress test turned out so good, and my heart is so strong.
If I am going to spend time doing cardio, I want to get a good workout because I feel that anything less is pretty much just wasting time.
I do workouts where I only stay in zone 3 or lower, but those are only for recovery in between the intense ones.
So... how do you roll?
Wow you're incredible.
No way could I run flat out to stay in zone 5 for an hour straight. Not sure I'd want to either.0 -
scorpio516 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a motto...
If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.
I like to stay in zone 4 (80 - 90 % of MHR) and zone 5 (90 - 100 % of MHR) on my intense workouts, and have been known to be in zone 5 for up to an hour total during these workouts.
I have read that it is not recommended to stay in zone 5 for long periods of time
Its not a recommendation, it's a fact that you can't stay there for more than a few minutes at a time. Z5 is RPE 9.5 - 10. A mile flat out, 5 to 6 minutes is all you can hold z5 for. If you can stay there longer, your zones aren't right. Its anerobic.
Last week, I spent about 50% of the time in z3, 30% z4, 20% z2
I was hoping someone was going to point this out. Zone 5 for an hour isn't zone 5.4 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a motto...
If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.
I like to stay in zone 4 (80 - 90 % of MHR) and zone 5 (90 - 100 % of MHR) on my intense workouts, and have been known to be in zone 5 for up to an hour total during these workouts.
I have read that it is not recommended to stay in zone 5 for long periods of time, so I asked my cardiologist about it when I went there to go over the results of a stress test I had done recently.
He told me it is absolutely fine to do this and it is probably the reason that my stress test turned out so good, and my heart is so strong.
If I am going to spend time doing cardio, I want to get a good workout because I feel that anything less is pretty much just wasting time.
I do workouts where I only stay in zone 3 or lower, but those are only for recovery in between the intense ones.
So... how do you roll?
Wow you're incredible.
No way could I run flat out to stay in zone 5 for an hour straight. Not sure I'd want to either.
I agree! I could probably hold for a minute or so but that would be it. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.1 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »I have a motto...
If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.
I like to stay in zone 4 (80 - 90 % of MHR) and zone 5 (90 - 100 % of MHR) on my intense workouts, and have been known to be in zone 5 for up to an hour total during these workouts.
I have read that it is not recommended to stay in zone 5 for long periods of time, so I asked my cardiologist about it when I went there to go over the results of a stress test I had done recently.
He told me it is absolutely fine to do this and it is probably the reason that my stress test turned out so good, and my heart is so strong.
If I am going to spend time doing cardio, I want to get a good workout because I feel that anything less is pretty much just wasting time.
I do workouts where I only stay in zone 3 or lower, but those are only for recovery in between the intense ones.
So... how do you roll?
Wow you're incredible.
No way could I run flat out to stay in zone 5 for an hour straight. Not sure I'd want to either.
I agree! I could probably hold for a minute or so but that would be it. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
I must be also
Just checked my data for today and yesterdays runs and it was all zone 2-3 in the main.0 -
I try never to really go over a point where I can't hold a conversation.
The whole entire point of long steady cardio isn't to get your heart rate up- it's to do extended cardio sessions- which means you're heart rate will go up- but not so much so you cannot continue doing cardio for a long time.
That is the entire point.If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.....
If I am going to spend time doing cardio, I want to get a good workout because I feel that anything less is pretty much just wasting time.
really that's kind of absurd- it just depends on what your goal is. And huffing and puffing isn't a good indicator of strength building- so for me that's a waste.
Does that mean my lifting is a waste of time?
no.
nothing is a waste of time if you did it with intent.
just because that's your priority- doesn't mean it's someone else's.4 -
If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.....
If I am going to spend time doing cardio, I want to get a good workout because I feel that anything less is pretty much just wasting time.
really that's kind of absurd- it just depends on what your goal is. And huffing and puffing isn't a good indicator of strength building- so for me that's a waste.
The originator has referred a few times to being trained as a fitness leader in the military in the 70s. So the thinking dates back to then.3 -
I don't monitor zones while running/biking/swimming, but I do monitor after my workouts or flag points that I want to review. Most of this figuring out intake timing, but my goal is increased performance for multisport. Most of my time is in zone 3, pushing 4 on sprints/hills, and enough time in 5 to push, but not enough to do any damage.0
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first of all zone 5 is not max heart rate. zone 5 starts at 90 % of MHR. sure max heart rate cannot be maintained for more than a few minutes, but the low end of zone 5 can be.
Also i never said i stayed in zone 5 for an hour straight. I said an hour total.
and yes, I was a fitness instructor in the Army back in the 80's (not the 70's), and I think the basic rules of fitness still apply here.
my my true max heart rate is within a few BPM of the 220 - age formula so not sure what all this talk is that I'm not really in zone 5, or I don't have my zones set up properly.
My cardiologist says I am doing it the right way, but I guess some of the experts here are better than doctors.
but that's fine with me. I'm getting results, and I only posted what I do and asked how other people roll, and its to be expected to get some folks who don't agree with older ways of doing things.
but who knows?
in another 20 or 30 years they may discover that the old ways where right the whole time...:)1 -
Human bodies have not changed and the basics of exercise physiology have not substantially changed in the past 30-40 years. Even the current love affair with HIIT has only moved the needle marginally.
So there is no fundamental "right" or "wrong" way to train. As others have (correctly) stated, all intensities have a valid place in a training routine--it depends on your goals. There is no moral hierarchy for exercise intensities.
One of the things that happens if you go "to the limit" all the time, is that certain metabolic systems become overdeveloped at the expense of others. Pushing hard every workout will develop your glycolytic system at the expense of your ability to burn fat. Instead of becoming more "carb-dominant" at 70%-75% of max, it can happen at 35% max. That won't affect the ability to lose weight, but it can affect the long-term quality of training and performance. But, again, there are no hard and fast rules. Depending on how you work out, you might not notice any difference.
If you like to push yourself hard (as I do), one of the toughest things is to force yourself to slow down. It took me over 30 years (and some metabolic testing) to fully realize that and to have confidence in my aerobic base.
But there is no one way of "doing it the right way", although including vigorous workouts over many years will tend to make a positive difference later in life.11 -
Human bodies have not changed and the basics of exercise physiology have not substantially changed in the past 30-40 years. Even the current love affair with HIIT has only moved the needle marginally.
So there is no fundamental "right" or "wrong" way to train. As others have (correctly) stated, all intensities have a valid place in a training routine--it depends on your goals. There is no moral hierarchy for exercise intensities.
One of the things that happens if you go "to the limit" all the time, is that certain metabolic systems become overdeveloped at the expense of others. Pushing hard every workout will develop your glycolytic system at the expense of your ability to burn fat. Instead of becoming more "carb-dominant" at 70%-75% of max, it can happen at 35% max. That won't affect the ability to lose weight, but it can affect the long-term quality of training and performance. But, again, there are no hard and fast rules. Depending on how you work out, you might not notice any difference.
If you like to push yourself hard (as I do), one of the toughest things is to force yourself to slow down. It took me over 30 years (and some metabolic testing) to fully realize that and to have confidence in my aerobic base.
But there is no one way of "doing it the right way", although including vigorous workouts over many years will tend to make a positive difference later in life.
I usually do the intense workouts a couple times per week. I also do less intense workouts a couple times per week, and recovery workouts in between. So I would imagine I am covering the spectrum fairly well.
I did read about what you are talking about with the aerobic base, and tried the 180 - age thing a few times because I do find it interesting and valid. I also do intervals pretty often and power walk on the rest parts so I can keep my heart rate at least in the cardio zone the whole time. My thinking is that I am getting the benefit of both the interval and steady state.
In a little over 2 years I have gone from barely being able to walk a mile at a slow pace to being able to power walk 10 miles and run 5 miles, and have lost over 50 lbs. I just followed the basic things I learned about fitness when I was in the army back in the 80's, so I guess a lot of that stuff still holds true.
I'm also open to new things, and if it seems valid to me, I'll give it a try.
I'll be 60 years old in august, and I don't want to wind up being the guy who's fallen and cant get up...LOL4 -
I don't have a HR monitor, nor do i know what zones 1-5 are.
So my answer is... I have no freakin clue " how i roll"
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Christine_72 wrote: »I don't have a HR monitor, nor do i know what zones 1-5 are.
So my answer is... I have no freakin clue " how i roll"
Haha!
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bcalvanese wrote: »I usually do the intense workouts a couple times per week. I also do less intense workouts a couple times per week, and recovery workouts in between. So I would imagine I am covering the spectrum fairly well.
I did read about what you are talking about with the aerobic base, and tried the 180 - age thing a few times because I do find it interesting and valid. I also do intervals pretty often and power walk on the rest parts so I can keep my heart rate at least in the cardio zone the whole time. My thinking is that I am getting the benefit of both the interval and steady state.bcalvanese wrote: »I have a motto...
If you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating... you ain't doing it right.
I like to stay in zone 4 (80 - 90 % of MHR) and zone 5 (90 - 100 % of MHR) on my intense workouts, and have been known to be in zone 5 for up to an hour total during these workouts.
So which is it? Do you think "if you ain't huffing and puffing and sweating...you ain't doing it right?" Or there is some benefit to the "Cardio zone?" I clipped the part about "wasting time."
If you straddle the fence too long, eventually your crotch will get sore.7 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I don't have a HR monitor, nor do i know what zones 1-5 are.
My ticker can go anywhere from about 50 to about 190 bpm. But 140 zones are too many. So people divide it up, usually into 5, but some folks are special and need 7. Anyway, 153 bpm and 155 bpm aren't really meaningfully different, so you lump them together. Zones are just a way to simplify heart rate.
Not trying to sell you an HRM, just a quick run down on what people are talking about.3 -
I don't roll. Or run. Or jump/skip/move very fast. Unless the light is turning red.3
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NorthCascades wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I don't have a HR monitor, nor do i know what zones 1-5 are.
My ticker can go anywhere from about 50 to about 190 bpm. But 140 zones are too many. So people divide it up, usually into 5, but some folks are special and need 7. Anyway, 153 bpm and 155 bpm aren't really meaningfully different, so you lump them together. Zones are just a way to simplify heart rate.
Not trying to sell you an HRM, just a quick run down on what people are talking about.
Thank you
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I disagree completely about the ability to stay in Zone5 for the time you suggest. Zone 5 is usually defined as 90-100% of maximum heart rate.scorpio516 wrote: »Its not a recommendation, it's a fact that you can't stay there for more than a few minutes at a time. Z5 is RPE 9.5 - 10. A mile flat out, 5 to 6 minutes is all you can hold z5 for. If you can stay there longer, your zones aren't right. Its anerobic.
Last week, I spent about 50% of the time in z3, 30% z4, 20% z2
I'm 51 years old with a true/known HRmax of 202bpm. (Yeah, I do NOT fit the 220-age formula). Today I did a 92 minute ride where once I'd warmed up (after 10 mins), I stayed at an average HR of 183bpm for the duration of the ride.
My maximum heart rate during the big climb (which starts at the 10 min mark) was 193bpm (I didn't want to push to max, so I kept it at 96%). My minimum during the ride was 175bpm and the average was quite steady/constant at about 183.
That is 90.6% average (Zone5) of HRmax sustained for nearly an hour and a half. Image for verification:
from https://www.strava.com/activities/1013708616
If you really break it down you'll see that roughly an hour of that ride was spent averaging 188bpm, not dropping below 183. That's 93% of my HRmax.
The point is you CAN increase your anaerobic and lactate thresholds, and not every athletes thresholds are the same. To suggest these thresholds are definitive and static percentages that affect everyone the same is akin to suggesting any of the existing formulas for maximum heart rate is accurate for everyone - ie: it's incorrect.2 -
I think some of the disagreement on ability to stay in different zones might be due to the fact that there is no one set standard that everyone uses. How many zones and how "wide" they are would greatly affect how many people could do longer workouts in the higher zones.
As for me, I usually hate the longer and slower workouts myself, and usually end up either doing some quick intervals or some sort of push. Similar to the OP, I just find it boring. Even though I know there is good cardio benefit, I made good progress not doing as much of the slower stuff as well. I did true Tabata protocol on the elliptical a few times just for kicks, so call me crazy.
On the bike, I can at times back off since I can enjoy the ride. And usually if I manage to do that and do some miles below a HR of 140-145, there is an added bonus of glycogen stores that let me pick an area on the way back and just kill it.
Though I don't currently have any devices that show my average HR, I'd say that 140 is probably a long slow one for me. I generally work out in the high 150's - mid 160's at least. It's probably rare that I don't hit at least 180 or so at some point in a workout, either through intervals or a sustained push towards the end.0
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