New vegan

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  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,020 Member
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    Johnturner69 wrote: »

    Expeller pressing is a mechanical process. It doesn't involve solvents.

    Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil Is Naturally Produced. Expeller-pressed canola oil is produced by mechanically squeezing (pressing) the oil from the canola seed using a unique double expeller-press process. In North America, most canola processing plants use hexane solvent extraction to remove oil from the canola seed.
    [/quote]

    So, you do understand that your first two sentences say that the particular ingredient listed in the vegan burger above (expeller-pressed canola oil) is produced without using a solvent, regardless of how "most" canola processing plants in North America extract the oil?

    You are the one who said above that expeller pressed canola oil uses hexane solvent.
    Johnturner69 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Johnturner69 wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    If your reason for vegan diet is healthy, you may want to rethink that! vegan diet can be "healthy" but vegan in and of itself does not equate to healthy, just like being an omnivorou can be healthy, and probably more so than a vegan diet

    I can't agree with Eric more. I was raised vegan for the first 13 years of my life. That being said, you can eat a whole box of Oreo's and a gallon of sweetened soy, nut, or rice milk and call yourself a vegan. ESPECIALLY if you are buying the "vegi" meat from your supermarket which is usually NOT healthy. I find a lot of vegan converts can't walk away from the idea of needing meat, and then look to morning star of something equally unhealthy for a replacement. I think its better as a convert to being vegan, eat as many vegan meals as you can, and then find healthy alternatives when you need a meet fix. Having a grilled chicken sandwich will be better for you than a "griller" meat replacement burger. I was never a PETA vegan, I was vegan because my family did it for religious reasons. I have nothing against a nice juicy burger, and with that in mind NO black bean burger will fill the craving for a grilled hunk of meat. Eat responsible, knowing WHAT is in your food is more important than whether or not it has animal byproducts.

    Hope there is something in there that will help. I like to lose the meat when I won't really miss it like a vegetarian chili. http://www.publix.com/recipes-planning/aprons-recipes/hearty-quinoa-chili

    There's no need to fear-monger about meat substitutes. These are the ingredients of a popular vegan burger: Pea Protein Isolate, Expeller Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Water, Yeast Extract, Maltodextrin, Natural Flavors, Gum Arabic, Sunflower Oil, Salt, Succinic Acid, Acetic Acid, Non-GMO Modified Food Starch, Cellulose From Bamboo, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Beet Juice Extract (for color), Ascorbic Acid (to maintain color), Annatto Extract (for color), Citrus Fruit Extract (to maintain quality), Vegetable Glycerin.

    Which of those are going to harm my health?
    I was not "fear mongering" without knowing which "popular vegan burger" you are speaking of it's impossible to know if it is healthy. I never said there are NO healthy meat alternatives. But I will say I could make that same burger using only ingredients that you actually know what they are. There is no reason to eat most of the ingredient that are listed in your choice of a veggie burger. Your burger list Expeller Pressed Canola oil, this uses hexane solvent wish is poisonous. It also list Sunflower oil, whis is considered a "cheap oil",and eating too much of these cheap oils can cause an abundance of Omega 6 fatty acids in our diets, which increases the risk of inflammation, heart disease, obesity, and prostate and bone cancer. So I am not fear-mongering, I just don't see how that is healthier than eating 4oz of locally sourced, organic chicken. Or making your own veggie burger with ingredients you can control and know what they are. Food should not read like a chemical science experiment.

  • Johnturner69
    Johnturner69 Posts: 8 Member
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    "So, you do understand that your first two sentences say that the particular ingredient listed in the vegan burger above (expeller-pressed canola oil) is produced without using a solvent, regardless of how "most" canola processing plants in North America extract the oil?"

    The first two sentences do not say Hexane is not used. It says that it is a mechanical process "An expeller is a big screw that is tightened until it crushes the nut/seed and causes the oil to run. This method provides yields of only 65-70% of the oil. Many companies then try to extract the rest of the oil using the chemical solvent." The only way to insure your expeller-pressed oil has not had poison used is to buy organic. I really am not trying to argue this. I was simply trying to tell the first poster to be aware of the chemically processed not so healthy variety of veggie burgers etc. That sometimes its safe to eat organic meat than the foods that read like science experiments. Here is an website that covers more about what I am talking about. http://www.eatthis.com/veggie-burgers
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    Johnturner69 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Johnturner69 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Johnturner69 wrote: »
    erickirb wrote: »
    If your reason for vegan diet is healthy, you may want to rethink that! vegan diet can be "healthy" but vegan in and of itself does not equate to healthy, just like being an omnivorou can be healthy, and probably more so than a vegan diet

    I can't agree with Eric more. I was raised vegan for the first 13 years of my life. That being said, you can eat a whole box of Oreo's and a gallon of sweetened soy, nut, or rice milk and call yourself a vegan. ESPECIALLY if you are buying the "vegi" meat from your supermarket which is usually NOT healthy. I find a lot of vegan converts can't walk away from the idea of needing meat, and then look to morning star of something equally unhealthy for a replacement. I think its better as a convert to being vegan, eat as many vegan meals as you can, and then find healthy alternatives when you need a meet fix. Having a grilled chicken sandwich will be better for you than a "griller" meat replacement burger. I was never a PETA vegan, I was vegan because my family did it for religious reasons. I have nothing against a nice juicy burger, and with that in mind NO black bean burger will fill the craving for a grilled hunk of meat. Eat responsible, knowing WHAT is in your food is more important than whether or not it has animal byproducts.

    Hope there is something in there that will help. I like to lose the meat when I won't really miss it like a vegetarian chili. http://www.publix.com/recipes-planning/aprons-recipes/hearty-quinoa-chili

    There's no need to fear-monger about meat substitutes. These are the ingredients of a popular vegan burger: Pea Protein Isolate, Expeller Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Water, Yeast Extract, Maltodextrin, Natural Flavors, Gum Arabic, Sunflower Oil, Salt, Succinic Acid, Acetic Acid, Non-GMO Modified Food Starch, Cellulose From Bamboo, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Beet Juice Extract (for color), Ascorbic Acid (to maintain color), Annatto Extract (for color), Citrus Fruit Extract (to maintain quality), Vegetable Glycerin.

    Which of those are going to harm my health?
    I was not "fear mongering" without knowing which "popular vegan burger" you are speaking of it's impossible to know if it is healthy. I never said there are NO healthy meat alternatives. But I will say I could make that same burger using only ingredients that you actually know what they are. There is no reason to eat most of the ingredient that are listed in your choice of a veggie burger. Your burger list Expeller Pressed Canola oil, this uses hexane solvent wish is poisonous. It also list Sunflower oil, whis is considered a "cheap oil",and eating too much of these cheap oils can cause an abundance of Omega 6 fatty acids in our diets, which increases the risk of inflammation, heart disease, obesity, and prostate and bone cancer. So I am not fear-mongering, I just don't see how that is healthier than eating 4oz of locally sourced, organic chicken. Or making your own veggie burger with ingredients you can control and know what they are. Food should not read like a chemical science experiment.

    Why do you need to know the brand to determine if the ingredients are healthy? That seems like the opposite of what you would need to know -- the ingredients alone should be able to indicate if it is dangerous or not.

    I know what all those ingredients are. A person's lack of knowledge doesn't make harmless things harmful. A person's knowledge doesn't make the harmful harmless.

    I sometimes eat expeller pressed canola oil and I have not been poisoned. If you're claiming that it, in and of itself, is a poison, then you're either using a very different definition of the word or there is some critical information about the dose at which harm begins that you are leaving out.

    Eating "too much" of anything isn't good for you. That's the very definition of "too much." I can drink too much water and harm myself, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have a glass of water when I'm thirsty. That an ingredient in a dish would be harmful if too much was consumed doesn't mean that a reasonable amount is harmful.

    I never claimed that the burger we are discussing is "healthier" than a portion of chicken. I am responding to your claim that meat substitutes are harmful (that is, "NOT healthy," in your words). If you can't support how the ingredients in the burger, in the dosage context of the burger, are harmful, I don't see how you can stand by your claim.

    Food should not read like a science experiment? Do you avoid baking due to the chemical reactions one needs to create? Why shouldn't we use science to better understand food and create delicious foods to eat that also meet our nutritional needs? What's wrong with science?

    I feel you are being a bit argumentative but I will try and spell it out for you. 1. "Why do you need to know the brand to determine if the ingredients are healthy? " Without knowing the brand I can't know HOW MUCH of any of those ingredient are in the burger. As you argue later in your last post the AMOUNT not the ingredient is what tells you how bad it its for you. (2.) I never said Expeller Pressed Canola oil is poisonous. You have NO idea if you have been poisoned. The question to you is, how much poison should you eat? (3.) "Eating "too much" of anything isn't good for you." Honestly I can't believe an adult would even want to argue this. Yes even water in "to much" quantity is harmful. But water with poison in it is even more harmful at any quantity. That is not to say you would fie because the water had poison in it. It could poison you over time without you ever knowing it was happening. So Don't you think water with no poison is better than water with poison? (4.) "I never claimed that the burger we are discussing is "healthier" than a portion of chicken." I NEVER said meat substitutes are harmful. I said that Veggie meat from the supermarket is usually not healthy. That is not saying there are not good options out there, it's just saying that most are over processed, loaded with salt and unhealthy fats. The burger you listed being a great example of what NOT to eat. I mean honestly how much poison is a safe amount to consume? If you are going to eat veggie meat from the supermarket do some research, find the healthiest versions, like those with the USDA organic which are not allowed to use poison like hexane solvents. (5.)"If you can't support how the ingredients in the burger, in the dosage context of the burger, are harmful, I don't see how you can stand by your claim." Again, you won't tell me the brand of the veggie burger you are talking about so you offer no "dosage" amounts. But again, your burger has poison in it. You tell me how much poison is the right amount? (6.) "Food should not read like a science experiment?" I again never said science is bad or should not be used. I said your food should not real like a science experiment. When you bake does your ingredients read like a science experiment? Yes, it is a scientific process that yields proper results. However you have to be intelligent enough to know the difference between baking powder and poison.

    It's a Beyond Meat burger, although knowing the brand name still won't tell you how *much* of each ingredient is used (unless you somehow have access to the company's recipes). How does knowing the manufacturer tell you whether or not the food will cause physical harm?

    You were the one who called out expeller pressed canola oil as an ingredient that would cause harm. If it isn't poison, how will it harm me? Typically one who has consumed a harmful dosage of poison experiences some physical effect. If you're arguing that there is no way for anyone to ever know if they have been exposed to poison, what definiton of "poisoned" are you using?

    Do you disagree that eating "too much" of anything would be harmful? What strikes you as unadult about the claim? I would think that water with no poison (defined as a substance at a dosage that will cause harm) would be better than a glass of water without it. I think a burger without poison would be the same. But you were the one who made the claim that this burger would harm my health and you haven't been able to establish how. When you claimed that meat substitutes were "NOT healthy," did you not see this as a claim they were harmful? If you meant something else, can you explain what "NOT healthy" means to you? I typically see it as a claim that something is harmful.

    What poison is in that burger?

    Why shouldn't food read as a science experiment? What's wrong if food does? Your argument seems to be a circular one, that we should avoid food with names that might be confusing or less understandable to those with lower scientific literacy/knowledge of food science because food shouldn't require literacy or knowledge to understand. Why is this your expectation for how everyone should choose to eat?

    If I seem argumentative, it's because I get concerned when I see people demonize foods for no valid reason, trying to scare newer vegans or vegetarians from foods that can be tasty, convenient, help people meet nutritional goals, and *are safe.* Someone might have specific goals or preferences that lead them from choosing certain meat substitutes (or they may not want to eat them at all), but to say that all of them should be avoided just because you have an illogical bias against "food that reads like an experiment" isn't helpful advice.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    Johnturner69 wrote: »

    Expeller pressing is a mechanical process. It doesn't involve solvents.

    Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil Is Naturally Produced. Expeller-pressed canola oil is produced by mechanically squeezing (pressing) the oil from the canola seed using a unique double expeller-press process. In North America, most canola processing plants use hexane solvent extraction to remove oil from the canola seed.
    [/quote]

    So expreller-pressed canola oil would be the exception to most canola oil in the US. Hexane solvent extraction, even if it is a valid concern, wouldn't be a legitimate reason to object to this product.

    If a company did try to get the rest of the oil from the canola, the resulting oil wouldn't be sold under the expreller-pressed labeling.
  • Johnturner69
    Johnturner69 Posts: 8 Member
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    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Johnturner69 wrote: »

    Expeller pressing is a mechanical process. It doesn't involve solvents.

    Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil Is Naturally Produced. Expeller-pressed canola oil is produced by mechanically squeezing (pressing) the oil from the canola seed using a unique double expeller-press process. In North America, most canola processing plants use hexane solvent extraction to remove oil from the canola seed.

    So expreller-pressed canola oil would be the exception to most canola oil in the US. Hexane solvent extraction, even if it is a valid concern, wouldn't be a legitimate reason to object to this product.

    If a company did try to get the rest of the oil from the canola, the resulting oil wouldn't be sold under the expreller-pressed labeling. [/quote]

    Okay, I have explained myself all I am going to. Please for the love of god eat all the poison you like. You can eat crayons of you like. But don't fool yourself into thinking it's good for you just because it's a colorful salad of chemicals.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    Johnturner69 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Johnturner69 wrote: »

    Expeller pressing is a mechanical process. It doesn't involve solvents.

    Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil Is Naturally Produced. Expeller-pressed canola oil is produced by mechanically squeezing (pressing) the oil from the canola seed using a unique double expeller-press process. In North America, most canola processing plants use hexane solvent extraction to remove oil from the canola seed.

    So expreller-pressed canola oil would be the exception to most canola oil in the US. Hexane solvent extraction, even if it is a valid concern, wouldn't be a legitimate reason to object to this product.

    If a company did try to get the rest of the oil from the canola, the resulting oil wouldn't be sold under the expreller-pressed labeling.

    Okay, I have explained myself all I am going to. Please for the love of god eat all the poison you like. You can eat crayons of you like. But don't fool yourself into thinking it's good for you just because it's a colorful salad of chemicals. [/quote]

    So I take it you aren't able to explain how any of the ingredients would be harmful?

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