KETO VS CALORIE COUNTING
That_Country_Girl82
Posts: 122 Member
Ok help. Idk which to do. I have read so much about the keto diet but have done the calorie. Is the keto that great? It really sounds a lot like Atkins to me.
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Replies
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Keto doesn't negate calories...if you over eat on keto, you're not going to lose weight. For many keto simply results in a calorie deficit...but a great many keto folks still count calories and they might as well, because they have to be super aggressive low carb and track that anyway.5
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You can gain, lose or maintain weight on keto because it's just a style of eating. Weight loss comes down to calories. So even if you decide to try keto, you still need to be in a caloric deficit to lose weight.
Some people find it easier to lose weight with keto because they find fat and protein more filling than carbs. So it's easier to stick to your deficit. I also find that hunger pangs are much less noticeable with keto - you don't experience the "sugar crashes" associated with a high-carb diet.
In regards to your Atkins comment - the Atkins induction phase is the same as keto. In Atkins, you slowly add back some carbs - in keto, you don't.
The issue with using a particular diet to lose weight is that you're likely to regain all your weight when you return to your preferred style of eating.
So most recommend that you just continue eating what you enjoy to eat in smaller portions. Grab a digital kitchen scale, calculate your TDEE and a reasonable deficit, and eat and log that amount in whatever foods you enjoy.5 -
where's that graphic about how different diets work?it's through a calorie deficit6
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That_Country_Girl82 wrote: »Ok help. Idk which to do. I have read so much about the keto diet but have done the calorie. Is the keto that great? It really sounds a lot like Atkins to me.
If you want to lose weight on a keto diet you also need to count calories so your answer is both.
Keto does not make you lose any faster, neither does it negate a calorie surplus. Is is nothing more than a specific way to divide up your macros.2 -
Many people do both. If you lose on keto without counting it's because you are naturally cutting calories due to the restrictions or the greater satiety that some experience anyway.
It's always seemed to me to be hard to know how many carbs you are really eating unless you log anyway.
I like lower carbs and just naturally seem to eat that way, but that's going to be a matter of personal preference. There's nothing magic about keto (and yeah, it's similar to Atkins stage 1).
I think keto or LCHF is a good fit for a number of people, but sadly it's gotten so faddish that lots of people think it's necessary or what everyone should be doing or somehow works differently than cutting calories. There always seems to be something going around where people are told it's better since they won't have to worry about how much they eat, just what they eat.2 -
Wouldn't you need to do both? How would you know you're in a calorie deficit without counting?0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Keto doesn't negate calories...if you over eat on keto, you're not going to lose weight. For many keto simply results in a calorie deficit...but a great many keto folks still count calories and they might as well, because they have to be super aggressive low carb and track that anyway.
This. A calorie deficit is needed for weight loss, keto is just one approach to achieve that.0 -
Atkins adds more carbs back in, keto does not. You need a calorie deficit to lose regardless of way of life you are following. If you should be at 1500 calories daily and are over 2000 then obviously that's a lb of gain a week from over eating. So yes, you need to count calories and watch your macros as well.
Some people do a modified version where they are eating carbs and call it "lazy keto" or other things like that. This seems to work well for people and I liken it to post-induction atkins where they're over 20g or 40g of carbs depending on the atkins plan they are on.
I would say, honestly that it's about finding the best balance for you. If you think something isn't going to work then it may not be the best solution for you. Carbs are a trigger for me, cutting them down was hard and I did slip up more often than not, so a friend suggested keto and it's been really helpful for me.2 -
Good morning everyone,
I've been wanting to participate in this forum for a while and I figured since I'm deep in the Keto hole I could try to give some insight.
I am training for my first powerlifting meet. I am also Keto adapted. I am also at the final stages of my cut. My numbers are below so you know I at least halfway know what I'm doing
Starting Weight 186lbs @ 22.1% BF% - 05/01/2017
Current Weight 171lbs @ 14.5% BF% - 07/12/2017
You can (and should) read as much as possible about keto. However there are a few constants that I think will help you get started and ultimately be successful.
Preface. The more honest you are with your numbers the better this is going to work. It's going to happen fast, so best to err on the side of more work to do than less.
Step 1: Determine your TDEE - https://tdeecalculator.net/ (No matter how much you exercise, set the activity to Sedentary. I train HEAVY 5x a week, but I work an office job. I'm sedentary.) My TDEE(Maintenance) is 2,153
Step 2: Work out your macros. Everybody's preference is different however I know what works for me so I eat the EXACT same macros regardless of if it's a training day or a rest day. Simple is effective, effective is successful.
Step 2a: Your macros are going to be as follows.
Protein: 0.8xLEAN BODY MASS. (example. If you way 140lbs at 20% BF% then you are carrying 112lbs of LBM. Your protein is 0.8x112=90g.)
Carbs: Start with 30g. Today. Do not taper or adjust. It's 30g now and when you feel comfortable with 30g, you can play around with dropping it to 25g. You will quickly learn what is best for your body. You want these carbs to be of high quality. Zero Frucose, Ever.
Fats: The rest of your calories are going to come from fats. You're looking for quality fats here too wherever possible. Nuts, avocoados, etc, but you're going to get plenty of fats from meats like beef/bacon etc.
Step 3: Put it all together. (I dont know your metrics, so I'm going to give a typical example below, adjust accordingly)
You are a 31 year old female who is 5 feet 8 inches tall and weighs 140 lbs @20%BF while being Sedentary
//Your maintenance Calories are 1761 Calories per day
//To lose weight you should consume 1261 Calories per day (1761-500)
//Your macros to induce Nutritional Ketosis are as follows.
Protein: 90g (4kcal/g =360kcal)
Carbs: 30g (4kcal/g = 120kcal)
Fats: 87g (9kcal/g = 783kcal)
Total = 1263kcal/day
Step 4: If you perform cardio, you will add back your calories burned in fats and proteins. Even split. I walk 2 miles a day just so I can have more satisfying meals
Do not add cals back for weight training.
Step 5: Be consistent. No cheat meals. No Refeed days. If it goes in your mouth, you count it. No exceptions.
This plan will put you at 1lb of fat loss per week. It's sustainable for a very long time and is not mentally fatiguing if approached with a positive outlook and the knowledge that you are recomping your body in an aggressive way all while eating pretty delicious food stuffs.
If you dont have a digital scale, get one. If you have never had your body fat taken before, go get it done at any 24 hour fitness, or your doctor or wherever. You need a baseline to calculate your energy expenditure.
Lastly, do it today. Like right now. No planning necessary. It's all right here. We're all gonna make it!1 -
dsltnangel wrote: »Good morning everyone,
I've been wanting to participate in this forum for a while and I figured since I'm deep in the Keto hole I could try to give some insight.
I am training for my first powerlifting meet. I am also Keto adapted. I am also at the final stages of my cut. My numbers are below so you know I at least halfway know what I'm doing
Starting Weight 186lbs @ 22.1% BF% - 05/01/2017
Current Weight 171lbs @ 14.5% BF% - 07/12/2017
You can (and should) read as much as possible about keto. However there are a few constants that I think will help you get started and ultimately be successful.
Preface. The more honest you are with your numbers the better this is going to work. It's going to happen fast, so best to err on the side of more work to do than less.
Step 1: Determine your TDEE - https://tdeecalculator.net/ (No matter how much you exercise, set the activity to Sedentary. I train HEAVY 5x a week, but I work an office job. I'm sedentary.) My TDEE(Maintenance) is 2,153
Step 2: Work out your macros. Everybody's preference is different however I know what works for me so I eat the EXACT same macros regardless of if it's a training day or a rest day. Simple is effective, effective is successful.
Step 2a: Your macros are going to be as follows.
Protein: 0.8xLEAN BODY MASS. (example. If you way 140lbs at 20% BF% then you are carrying 112lbs of LBM. Your protein is 0.8x112=90g.)
Carbs: Start with 30g. Today. Do not taper or adjust. It's 30g now and when you feel comfortable with 30g, you can play around with dropping it to 25g. You will quickly learn what is best for your body. You want these carbs to be of high quality. Zero Frucose, Ever.
Fats: The rest of your calories are going to come from fats. You're looking for quality fats here too wherever possible. Nuts, avocoados, etc, but you're going to get plenty of fats from meats like beef/bacon etc.
Step 3: Put it all together. (I dont know your metrics, so I'm going to give a typical example below, adjust accordingly)
You are a 31 year old female who is 5 feet 8 inches tall and weighs 140 lbs @20%BF while being Sedentary
//Your maintenance Calories are 1761 Calories per day
//To lose weight you should consume 1261 Calories per day (1761-500)
//Your macros to induce Nutritional Ketosis are as follows.
Protein: 90g (4kcal/g =360kcal)
Carbs: 30g (4kcal/g = 120kcal)
Fats: 87g (9kcal/g = 783kcal)
Total = 1263kcal/day
Step 4: If you perform cardio, you will add back your calories burned in fats and proteins. Even split. I walk 2 miles a day just so I can have more satisfying meals Do not add cals back for weight training.
Step 5: Be consistent. No cheat meals. No Refeed days. If it goes in your mouth, you count it. No exceptions.
This plan will put you at 1lb of fat loss per week. It's sustainable for a very long time and is not mentally fatiguing if approached with a positive outlook and the knowledge that you are recomping your body in an aggressive way all while eating pretty delicious food stuffs.
If you dont have a digital scale, get one. If you have never had your body fat taken before, go get it done at any 24 hour fitness, or your doctor or wherever. You need a baseline to calculate your energy expenditure.
Lastly, do it today. Like right now. No planning necessary. It's all right here. We're all gonna make it!
This sounds like so much work oiy! I didn't track macros at all during my weight loss phase, nor did I do any intentional exercise. Kept things really simple and just tracked calorie intake while still eating all the foods I liked. Created the necessary calorie deficit and lost the extra weight.
It's great that you found something that works for you, just goes to show how we're all different!0 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »This sounds like so much work oiy! I didn't track macros at all during my weight loss phase, nor did I do any intentional exercise. Kept things really simple and just tracked calorie intake while still eating all the foods I liked. Created the necessary calorie deficit and lost the extra weight.
It's great that you found something that works for you, just goes to show how we're all different!
Oh for sure. It can be a huge pain in the butt to start, but once you're adjusted, there is no smoother sailing in my opinion. Some folks though admittedly have a hard time because alcohol or other lifestyle things get in the way. I enjoy keto because it has a lot of other beneficial qualities. No other eating protocol reduces overall adipose at such a fast speed while also simultaneously being very muscle sparing. It works well for people who don't want to lose their gains. (not to say it can't be done on other protocols, just keto happens to be pretty muscle sparing) I also couple it with 18/6 intermittent fasting. So I eat two Huge, satisfying meals, while still at a deficit. So I can lose almost exclusively fat, and not feel mentally drained from being calorie restricted.
But yeah, we're all different absolutely.
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dsltnangel wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »This sounds like so much work oiy! I didn't track macros at all during my weight loss phase, nor did I do any intentional exercise. Kept things really simple and just tracked calorie intake while still eating all the foods I liked. Created the necessary calorie deficit and lost the extra weight.
It's great that you found something that works for you, just goes to show how we're all different!
Oh for sure. It can be a huge pain in the butt to start, but once you're adjusted, there is no smoother sailing in my opinion. Some folks though admittedly have a hard time because alcohol or other lifestyle things get in the way. I enjoy keto because it has a lot of other beneficial qualities. No other eating protocol reduces overall adipose at such a fast speed while also simultaneously being very muscle sparing. It works well for people who don't want to lose their gains. (not to say it can't be done on other protocols, just keto happens to be pretty muscle sparing) I also couple it with 18/6 intermittent fasting. So I eat two Huge, satisfying meals, while still at a deficit. So I can lose almost exclusively fat, and not feel mentally drained from being calorie restricted.
But yeah, we're all different absolutely.
keto doesnt burn fat faster. fat is lost in a deficit.what you are using as fuel in keto is the dietary fat,not body fat like people think. you can lose fat any way of eating as long as you are in a deficit. and as for losing fast in keto,most of it in the beginning is water weight. as for muscle sparing how is it better than any other type of weight loss? you will lose muscle in a deficit no matter how you eat which is why its recommended to get enough protein and do weight/resistance training.keto is just another way of eating and can help those with type 2 diabetes,PCOS,insulin resistance and some types of seizures.Its not a special way to lose weight and its not a fat blasting diet.3 -
This really is the age old question. For me I always lose weight on keto however it's so difficult to keep up especially since I travel often for work.
Im back to counting using this app and so far the results have been excellent! I am so excited to do this.
Feel free to add me. PMs welcome.0 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »where's that graphic about how different diets work?it's through a calorie deficit
Here.
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That_Country_Girl82 wrote: »Ok help. Idk which to do. I have read so much about the keto diet but have done the calorie. Is the keto that great? It really sounds a lot like Atkins to me.
As others have said, for weight loss, the only requirement is to be in a calorie deficit. You can achieve that eating any foods, and some people find Low Carb, and extremely low carb diets like Keto, to be a way to achieve that deficit.
Do you have experience with Atkins? Was it a positive one? Is it something that you could see yourself maintaining forever? Because generally, long term success is built on finding a way of eating that you can continue with even after you lose the weight. Using keto to lose weight because of things you've heard, but then returning to eating how you eat today, with no focus on calories, is likely to lead to gaining the weight back. If however you find low carb to be an enjoyable and satiating way of eating and think you could stick with it, then give it a try I suppose. But I would still accurately log your calorie consumption while doing so.1 -
dsltnangel wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »This sounds like so much work oiy! I didn't track macros at all during my weight loss phase, nor did I do any intentional exercise. Kept things really simple and just tracked calorie intake while still eating all the foods I liked. Created the necessary calorie deficit and lost the extra weight.
It's great that you found something that works for you, just goes to show how we're all different!
Oh for sure. It can be a huge pain in the butt to start, but once you're adjusted, there is no smoother sailing in my opinion. Some folks though admittedly have a hard time because alcohol or other lifestyle things get in the way.
Eating 30 g of carbs or under would be basically impossible for me just based on the vegetables I like to eat, plus in smaller amounts nuts and some dairy.
Guess that's one of those lifestyle things.
(I don't think you need to be that low to be in ketosis or that low carb is all about ketosis anyway, however.)1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
keto doesnt burn fat faster. fat is lost in a deficit.what you are using as fuel in keto is the dietary fat,not body fat like people think. you can lose fat any way of eating as long as you are in a deficit. and as for losing fast in keto,most of it in the beginning is water weight. as for muscle sparing how is it better than any other type of weight loss? you will lose muscle in a deficit no matter how you eat which is why its recommended to get enough protein and do weight/resistance training.keto is just another way of eating and can help those with type 2 diabetes,PCOS,insulin resistance and some types of seizures.Its not a special way to lose weight and its not a fat blasting diet.
You're def not wrong. It's not a fat blasting diet by any stretch but it does let you exist well into a deficit and feel satisfied almost indefinitely. Not to mention the amazing anti-inflammatory effects that come with a greatly reduced carbohydrate intake.
Keto in and of itself does not burn FFAs any faster than any other dietary model. It does however put you in a much more advantageous position when it comes to managing nutrient partitioning as well as insulin, as you stated. This leads to a naturally more muscle sparing and fat burning environment as you can more finely tune your primary energy source.
I didn't mean to tout it as the "end all be all, you're gonna get all cut up on keto solution". It's just a protocol just like everything else. I also really didn't mean to start this argument for the 1000th time. The research is pretty young still but I'm here to talk about what works for me and what may work well for others.2 -
Everyone claims their preferred diet is anti-inflammatory. The WBPB types think animal products cause inflammation. I believe ultra processed vegetable oils are supposed to, and those are not off limits on keto. Others say that fruits and veg are helpful for inflammation.
As for muscle-sparing, that's about keeping the protein up (and I'm glad you recommend that, as some versions of keto do not, but are scared of protein interfering with ketosis).
Muscle loss can be a greater concern (even greater than with non low carb) with very low carb if you don't keep protein up: http://caloriesproper.com/protein-ketosis-and-lean-mass/
Edit to add: I'm not anti keto at all. I think it's a good choice for some and people can be very successful on it, as it seems you have been. But sometimes claims that are exaggerated get made.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Everyone claims their preferred diet is anti-inflammatory. The WBPB types think animal products cause inflammation. I believe ultra processed vegetable oils are supposed to, and those are not off limits on keto. Others say that fruits and veg are helpful for inflammation.
As for muscle-sparing, that's about keeping the protein up (and I'm glad you recommend that, as some versions of keto do not, but are scared of protein interfering with ketosis).
Muscle loss can be a greater concern (even greater than with non low carb) with very low carb if you don't keep protein up: http://caloriesproper.com/protein-ketosis-and-lean-mass/
Edit to add: I'm not anti keto at all. I think it's a good choice for some and people can be very successful on it, as it seems you have been. But sometimes claims that are exaggerated get made.
I agree with all of this. 0 -
dsltnangel wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
keto doesnt burn fat faster. fat is lost in a deficit.what you are using as fuel in keto is the dietary fat,not body fat like people think. you can lose fat any way of eating as long as you are in a deficit. and as for losing fast in keto,most of it in the beginning is water weight. as for muscle sparing how is it better than any other type of weight loss? you will lose muscle in a deficit no matter how you eat which is why its recommended to get enough protein and do weight/resistance training.keto is just another way of eating and can help those with type 2 diabetes,PCOS,insulin resistance and some types of seizures.Its not a special way to lose weight and its not a fat blasting diet.
You're def not wrong. It's not a fat blasting diet by any stretch but it does let you exist well into a deficit and feel satisfied almost indefinitely. Not to mention the amazing anti-inflammatory effects that come with a greatly reduced carbohydrate intake.
Keto in and of itself does not burn FFAs any faster than any other dietary model. It does however put you in a much more advantageous position when it comes to managing nutrient partitioning as well as insulin, as you stated. This leads to a naturally more muscle sparing and fat burning environment as you can more finely tune your primary energy source.
I didn't mean to tout it as the "end all be all, you're gonna get all cut up on keto solution". It's just a protocol just like everything else. I also really didn't mean to start this argument for the 1000th time. The research is pretty young still but I'm here to talk about what works for me and what may work well for others.
if it works for you then great. Im not knocking keto .I tried it in the past but wasnt for me, main reason being I cant do high fat(I have familial hypercholesterolemia,I did keto before I knew I had it) and it made me very lethargic,I had no strength and so on. I had to stop, could have been due to the FH and the high fat content, for some the high fat will satiate them for others it may be carbs or protein.If it works for some out there great. as for being anti-inflammatory, I have RA and eat a lot of carbs and have no issues with inflammation but thats me.0
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