Public Health Collaboration (UK) guidelines - LCHF natural/"real" foods

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LCHF123
LCHF123 Posts: 26 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Has anyone come across these guidelines? Or follows a similar diet?

I am in the process of enrolling onto a clinical study that involves eating normally, as I usually would, for one week (recording all my food intake on here) and then four weeks following the PHC guidelines: https://phcuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Healthy-Eating-Guidelines-Weight-Loss-Advice-For-The-United-Kingdom-Public-Health-Collaboration.pdf

In summary, the guidelines are:
- eat real food until satisfied (foods that are naturally nutrient dense and are minimally altered from their natural state)
- avoid fake foods (these are foods that have been highly-processed from their natural state)
- be active every day
- minimum fat intake of at 40g for men and 30g for women (so 30g for me)
- minimum protein intake of 1g protein per kg of body weight per day (around 70g for me), primarily from animal sources
- macronutrients to exceed the current recommended nutrient intakes
- minimum 30g fibre
- total carbohydrate intake of less than 130g/day
- the carbohydrate-density of all foods consumed must be less than 25% (i.e. less than 25g carbohydrates per 100g)

I have been interested in the low carbohydrate/sugar way of eating for a while (I definitely feel better when I limit my usual excessive intake of white flour and sugar). This seems like a perfect opportunity to give this way of eating a go, whilst getting lots of information as to whether or not it works well for me (they'll be testing my calorie expenditure, weight and body fat, glucose, haemoglobin and cholesterol levels before and after the four week diet along with weekly mood, sleep and appetite assessments done via email)·

If you look at my diary at the moment, please don’t judge me! I actually feel quite disgusted with myself having to write it all down and am trying really really hard not to let it influence how I eat until next Thursday (when I have my pre-study assessment and can start the LCHF diet) but seeing it in black and white and not being allowed to do anything about it is harrrrrrrd!

I cannot eat eggs, so lots of recipes out there (particularly breakfast options) are not appropriate for me, but I'm looking forward to having to experiment!

If anyone follows this diet, or anything similar, and has any advice or suggestions, I'd love to hear from you! I have requested to join the low carb group, but my request has not yet been approved :(

In particular, what do you recommend my fat/protein breakdown should be? Since this "diet" does not involve counting calories, I have manually set my calorie allowance to an arbitrary 2000cal/day and set my carbs to 25% as this gives me 125g/day. I then didn’t know what to do with my protein and fat so divided the remaining calories in half and set fat to 40% (89g/day) and protein to 35% (175g/day). My minimum fat and protein intake is around 35-40% of what these ratios have set them to. Should I change the split between fat and protein? Increase my fat and decrease my protein?

Replies

  • Old_Cat_Lady
    Old_Cat_Lady Posts: 1,193 Member
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    Any guidelines for high carb lovers? I love a good ol' plain sweet potato.
  • LCHF123
    LCHF123 Posts: 26 Member
    edited July 2017
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    TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »
    Any guidelines for high carb lovers? I love a good ol' plain sweet potato.

    The current NHS (UK national health service) recommendations!

    The PHC guidelines have been written by a group of professionals who are concerned about the current NHS guidelines that advocate ensuring 50% of your food is carbohydrates, with the rest of your food intake being fruit, veggies and low/reduced fat foods. It's got a lot of scientific studies to back up the evidence, and their argument is that the current NHS guidelines are outdated and should be reviewed against more recent studies.

    Whether you agree with their recommendations or not is an entirely different matter :smiley: I'm a bit of a carboholic too and am looking forward to this study as it will challenge me to completely overhaul my diet as opposed to tweaking it (which hasn't worked so well for me in the past....)
  • LCHF123
    LCHF123 Posts: 26 Member
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    TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »
    Any guidelines for high carb lovers? I love a good ol' plain sweet potato.

    I've just been looking for information on the carbohydrate-density (CD) of foods, and it turns out I can still eat potatoes (CD = 10), sweet potatoes (CD = 21) and cooked pasta (CD = 23), all in moderation to fit with the less than 130g/day in total requirement, but not rice, flour, sugar, couscous, popcorn or dried fruits. I'm a little less nervous about the challenge now :smiley:
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    LCHF123 wrote: »
    Has anyone come across these guidelines? Or follows a similar diet?

    That's similar to how I naturally enjoy eating, but I don't think it's necessary. This seems like it might be a trial for a lower carb way of eating.

    A few thoughts:
    eat real food until satisfied (foods that are naturally nutrient dense and are minimally altered from their natural state)

    I dislike the term "real food" and being less processed doesn't necessarily mean something is more nutrient dense. (Is cheese "real food"? It's processed, but usually not considered highly processed, and is not particularly nutrient dense.)
    avoid fake foods (these are foods that have been highly-processed from their natural state)

    Same comment, although I mostly do limit or don't eat these kinds of foods, depending on what is meant. For example, are homemade cookies here? I'd assume they are considered highly processed, but usually they would not be called "fake." I think the language is confusing.
    minimum fat intake of at 40g for men and 30g for women (so 30g for me)

    This is definitely not LCHF. OF course, it's a minimum, but 30 g of fat is only 18% of a 1500 cal diet (which would be a weight loss diet for most women, especially since it prescribes activity).
    minimum protein intake of 1g protein per kg of body weight per day (around 70g for me), primarily from animal sources

    This would be 57 g for me, which is IMO quite low protein, although I know it's geared toward RDA+a bit recommendations. Again, with the 1500 cal diet it would be only about 15% of my diet, so you should just be aware of this when figuring what fat and protein amounts really go with the carb limit (I usually eat around 100 g of protein or more, from a variety of sources).
    minimum 30g fibre

    Good, but be aware that the lower carb you go the harder this might be to reach.
    total carbohydrate intake of less than 130g/day

    I'd consider this moderately low carb, not LCHF.
    the carbohydrate-density of all foods consumed must be less than 25% (i.e. less than 25g carbohydrates per 100g)

    This is extremely confusing -- I assumed you meant around 25% carbs of total calories (which is what I do), but not sure what this would mean. Any food must have less than 25 g of carbs in 100 g of the food? This would permit a potato heavy diet (100 g of raw red potatoes have 16 g of carbs). That's fine -- I think potatoes are healthy and all -- but that plus the low fat and protein numbers, and the 130 g carb limit makes me think this is really kind of a moderate low carb test, not LCHF?

    Anyway, interesting, and I imagine you will learn more when doing it.
    In particular, what do you recommend my fat/protein breakdown should be? Since this "diet" does not involve counting calories, I have manually set my calorie allowance to an arbitrary 2000cal/day and set my carbs to 25% as this gives me 125g/day. I then didn’t know what to do with my protein and fat so divided the remaining calories in half and set fat to 40% (89g/day) and protein to 35% (175g/day). My minimum fat and protein intake is around 35-40% of what these ratios have set them to. Should I change the split between fat and protein? Increase my fat and decrease my protein?

    This seems reasonable, and probably you wouldn't be getting totally consistent fat/protein breakdowns anyway, since it sounds like it's about how much you eat without counting (although how you monitor the limits then, I dunno).

    I think a good measure for protein at a deficit (if you will be at one) is .8 g per lb of a healthy goal weight. That's what my 100 g is based on.
  • RodaRose
    RodaRose Posts: 9,562 Member
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    The protein and fat numbers do not matter. They never have to be exactly and you will be getting enough of both on this plan at 2000 calories a day.
  • LCHF123
    LCHF123 Posts: 26 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    LCHF123 wrote: »
    Has anyone come across these guidelines? Or follows a similar diet?

    That's similar to how I naturally enjoy eating, but I don't think it's necessary. This seems like it might be a trial for a lower carb way of eating.

    A few thoughts:
    eat real food until satisfied (foods that are naturally nutrient dense and are minimally altered from their natural state)

    I dislike the term "real food" and being less processed doesn't necessarily mean something is more nutrient dense. (Is cheese "real food"? It's processed, but usually not considered highly processed, and is not particularly nutrient dense.)
    avoid fake foods (these are foods that have been highly-processed from their natural state)

    Same comment, although I mostly do limit or don't eat these kinds of foods, depending on what is meant. For example, are homemade cookies here? I'd assume they are considered highly processed, but usually they would not be called "fake." I think the language is confusing.
    minimum fat intake of at 40g for men and 30g for women (so 30g for me)

    This is definitely not LCHF. OF course, it's a minimum, but 30 g of fat is only 18% of a 1500 cal diet (which would be a weight loss diet for most women, especially since it prescribes activity).
    minimum protein intake of 1g protein per kg of body weight per day (around 70g for me), primarily from animal sources

    This would be 57 g for me, which is IMO quite low protein, although I know it's geared toward RDA+a bit recommendations. Again, with the 1500 cal diet it would be only about 15% of my diet, so you should just be aware of this when figuring what fat and protein amounts really go with the carb limit (I usually eat around 100 g of protein or more, from a variety of sources).
    minimum 30g fibre

    Good, but be aware that the lower carb you go the harder this might be to reach.
    total carbohydrate intake of less than 130g/day

    I'd consider this moderately low carb, not LCHF.
    the carbohydrate-density of all foods consumed must be less than 25% (i.e. less than 25g carbohydrates per 100g)

    This is extremely confusing -- I assumed you meant around 25% carbs of total calories (which is what I do), but not sure what this would mean. Any food must have less than 25 g of carbs in 100 g of the food? This would permit a potato heavy diet (100 g of raw red potatoes have 16 g of carbs). That's fine -- I think potatoes are healthy and all -- but that plus the low fat and protein numbers, and the 130 g carb limit makes me think this is really kind of a moderate low carb test, not LCHF?

    Anyway, interesting, and I imagine you will learn more when doing it.
    In particular, what do you recommend my fat/protein breakdown should be? Since this "diet" does not involve counting calories, I have manually set my calorie allowance to an arbitrary 2000cal/day and set my carbs to 25% as this gives me 125g/day. I then didn’t know what to do with my protein and fat so divided the remaining calories in half and set fat to 40% (89g/day) and protein to 35% (175g/day). My minimum fat and protein intake is around 35-40% of what these ratios have set them to. Should I change the split between fat and protein? Increase my fat and decrease my protein?

    This seems reasonable, and probably you wouldn't be getting totally consistent fat/protein breakdowns anyway, since it sounds like it's about how much you eat without counting (although how you monitor the limits then, I dunno).

    I think a good measure for protein at a deficit (if you will be at one) is .8 g per lb of a healthy goal weight. That's what my 100 g is based on.

    Thanks lemurcat, and thanks also for your responses to my post in the low carb group. The carbohydrate-density does indeed mean that the food must contain less than 25g of carbohydrates per 100g of the food, as opposed to carbs making up 25% of the total calories. This does indeed permit me to eat "for instance all green vegetables and most root vegetables, most fruits, legumes, potatoes, beans and full fat dairy products." (quote taken directly from the participant information leaflet). Which I must admit is not what I was expecting from a "low carb" regime. Having read all the responses in the low carb group, I realise that this isn't a LCHF regime at all - and now I'm not sure how to describe this regime :smiley:

    I completely agree with you that not monitoring my limits is probably not a good idea long term, but I'm going to treat the four week period of the clinical study as a trial period to get used to eating following those guidelines and then look into setting my calorie intake once that's finished.

    Your method of calculating protein (.8g per lb of healthy body weight) brings me out to around 100g/day which I think is more manageable than 175g/day.....
  • LCHF123
    LCHF123 Posts: 26 Member
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    I should also point out that the diet guidelines say that you have to meet your minimum fat, protein and micronutrient requirements for the day before adding in carbohydrates.
  • LCHF123
    LCHF123 Posts: 26 Member
    edited July 2017
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    RodaRose wrote: »
    The protein and fat numbers do not matter. They never have to be exactly and you will be getting enough of both on this plan at 2000 calories a day.

    Thanks. That puts my mind at rest! Though I have tweaked my %s to increase the amount of fat (up to closer to 100g) and reduce the amount of protein (down to around 100g). That still leaves me a huge amount of wiggle room in terms of meeting my minimum requirements :smiley:

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