Does Obesity Cause Inflammation? Or Is It the Other Way Around?
DevotedToDASH
Posts: 60 Member
I've been trying to figure out what's causing my 24/7 inflammation/pain cycle and even my healthcare providers don't agree on what I should be doing proactively, especially when it comes to weight and diet. I'm significantly overweight and I understand the energy in/energy out logic to weight loss, but I am one of those people whose body evidently doesn't want to abide by those rules.
If you've ever had to deal with inflammation and obesity, or are even only slightly overweight and have been told that your inflammatory markers are high, putting you at risk of serious health consequences, what have been your experiences? Did your most significant weight gains begin after an illness that taxed your immune system? Did you start stress eating and eventually found you were in too much pain to exercise so the pounds started piling on? Maybe you've been sick and now can't keep weight on, but still feel inflamed or lab work shows inflammation, even on a "normal" diet. If you've found something that worked for you, please - share your story.
If you've ever had to deal with inflammation and obesity, or are even only slightly overweight and have been told that your inflammatory markers are high, putting you at risk of serious health consequences, what have been your experiences? Did your most significant weight gains begin after an illness that taxed your immune system? Did you start stress eating and eventually found you were in too much pain to exercise so the pounds started piling on? Maybe you've been sick and now can't keep weight on, but still feel inflamed or lab work shows inflammation, even on a "normal" diet. If you've found something that worked for you, please - share your story.
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Adipose tissue is not inert. It messes with your hormones. It definitely contributes to inflammation.
I have several autoimmune conditions, and though they are managed with medication, the single best thing I do to keep myself feeling well is maintain a healthy weight and exercise.
It wasn't possible to control my conditions as well when I carried an extra 90 pounds of fat.
And, I'm sorry, but speaking as someone who has medical conditions, you can lose weight just like everyone else, you just need to learn how to be accurate in your calorie counting and logging. If you read the forum stickies, you will get plenty of tips on how to do this. It's where I learned how to do it, and I always thought it was impossible for me to lose weight and thought I'd tried everything. I was wrong.
I have been in too much pain to exercise, but I had enough of that ish and read up on the concept of graded exercise. I was using a cane, and am now a daily runner. Pain doesn't have to rule your life and neither does inflammation. In fact, exercise can be one of your most effective tools to manage the depression that comes with pain, the pain itself, and inflammation.
You don't need to exercise to lose weight, but I highly recommend it for how good it makes you feel showing your body that you're the boss.
That's my story. I hope it helps.35 -
I'm not sure what your main question is, but being overweight caused me all kinds of painful or annoying health issues that have ALL resolved now that I'm at a healthy weight.
I think part of it is that I also cleaned up my nutrition a lot. Instead of daily fried foods and sugary snacks, I limit those to one time or less per week. I make it my mission to hit my protein and fat goals six out of seven days a week.
You say you are different and that you can't lose weight? How long have you been logging your food daily?
Being over weight is all bad and no good. Just start. So much good will follow.
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I definitely believe my weight contributed to my development of Hashimotos.... but I know that I CAN lose it, if I put in the effort and the will power. Like he said ^^ extra weight affects so much! Our hormones, our brain chemistry, our bones, etc.
I have no doubt that any overweight/obese person would see significant improvements in their pre-existing conditions by losing weight and treating their body right.2 -
So I took a peek at your food diary.
Try logging all your food and exercise every day. It looks like (and there are only a week of entries) you either are not logging all your food or you're all over the place with your food intake. Try to be consistent and eat more protein. If you are consistent for a month or six weeks, you'll see results - one way or another. You need to have a baseline of good numbers on which to base any changes.
I see you have thyroid issues and you're older. Me too. That isn't a reason for not losing - you'll just need to find your calorie level. How did you come up with 1650 as a daily goal? That amount would not work for me for weight loss if I wasn't fairly active. I know @GottaBurnEmAll is also a thyroid patient and post menopausal woman like me, so we get it.
We don't know anything about you, so no way to know if your calories are set to an appropriate level. How much weight do you need to lose? How tall are you? Do you work, go to school, or care for children or family members every day?6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Adipose tissue is not inert. It messes with your hormones. It definitely contributes to inflammation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16470013
Recent discoveries, notably of the hormones leptin and adiponectin, have revised the notion that adipocytes are simply a storage depot for body energy. Instead, adipocytes are also endocrine organs, with multiple metabolic roles in regulating whole-body physiology. Small adipocytes in lean individuals promote metabolic homeostasis; the enlarged adipocytes of obese individuals recruit macrophages and promote inflammation and the release of a range of factors that predispose toward insulin resistance.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC297006/
Obesity and the associated metabolic pathologies are the most common and detrimental metabolic diseases, affecting over 50% of the adult population. These conditions are associated with a chronic inflammatory response characterized by abnormal cytokine production, increased acute-phase reactants, and activation of inflammatory signaling pathways (1). This association is not an inconsequential one, at least in experimental models, and is causally linked to either obesity itself or closely linked diseases such as insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18806722
Obesity and inflammation are highly integrated processes in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance, diabetes, atherosclerosis, and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. The evidence that obesity can be regarded as an inflammatory disease comes from numerous studies showing a moderate increase of circulating inflammatory factors in obese patients and the identification of different types of immune cells infiltrating the human adipose tissue. Obesity may induce a pro-inflammatory state, which can cause or worsen insulin resistance in adipose tissue, skeletal muscle, and liver.https://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2013/139239/
Obesity is a growing epidemic worldwide; its prevalence has been rising tremendously over the last 30 years (WHO, 2013). Excess adiposity is an established risk factor for metabolic diseases including insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes (T2D), hypertension, nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), polycystic ovarian diseases, and several types of cancer [1].
Obesity is a proinflammatory condition in which hypertrophied adipocytes and adipose tissue-resident immune cells (primarily lymphocytes and macrophages) both contribute to increased circulating levels of proinflammatory cytokines. The obesity-associated state of chronic low-grade systemic inflammation, termed “metabolic inflammation,” is considered a focal point in the pathogenesis of insulin resistance and T2D in humans and rodent animal models [2–5]. Although liver and muscle show obesity-induced mild inflammatory responses, white adipose tissue (WAT) is the key site mediating systemic inflammation
I could go on, but essentially there is a clear connection between excess adipose tissue and inflammation as well as certain cancers and hormonal disorders as @GottaBurnEmAll said, body fat is not some innocuous substance that just makes us "look bad".
As far as your comment about "but I am one of those people whose body evidently doesn't want to abide by those rules." I'm sorry but this just isn't true. I would take a real hard look at the situation and ask whether you're being honest with yourself about your calorie intake.
If someone who is class 3 morbid obese (600+ pounds) can lose weight on a low calorie diet so can you. You are not a special exception to the rule.22 -
That's awesome that you've found your answers - helps me feel hopeful. I'm very familiar with much of the information you've shared, but thanks for sharing it for everyone.
As for this -GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
And, I'm sorry, but speaking as someone who has medical conditions, you can lose weight just like everyone else, you just need to learn how to be accurate in your calorie counting and logging. If you read the forum stickies, you will get plenty of tips on how to do this. It's where I learned how to do it, and I always thought it was impossible for me to lose weight and thought I'd tried everything. I was wrong.
I politely disagree.
I also have medical conditions that I believe have contributed and continue to be a concern. Under controlled circumstances, in a hospital setting with very specific meal choices by a nutritionist, I gained weight that they did not expect me to gain - with marked edema from certain foods, particularly anything with beet sugar. I've had tons of allergy tests - no food allergies, although I'm "sensitive" to virtually everything; i.e. there is nothing that I don't have a histamine reaction to, albeit at a low level. I've been checked for gluten intolerance, no real signs of a problem there. I've logged foods (weighed down to the gram and calories counted very accurately) for months at a time at a level (1250 kcals/day) where my PCP and RD said I "couldn't not lose weight" - and I gained or lost so slowly that I lost confidence and motivation. I found out that, with a diagnosis of Hashi's and on a dose of Levoxyl that corrected my t4 to normal, I still don't convert t4 to t3, so my metabolism is virtually at a standstill. Desiccated animal thyroid as well as synthetic t3 produces arrhythmia, so that's not an option for me. I was diagnosed with IBS-D over 40 years ago, although I believe it to be more leaky gut and that has improved slightly with probiotics. I also was diagnosed with a muscular problem as a child that causes my muscles not to heal as quickly as they should from day to day strain, so while starting any exercise program is a bit daunting from a pain perspective, it's not insurmountable - I've lived with that pain my entire life. My greater concern always, is the inflammation.
I don't feel like I've tried everything - I feel like I just need to keep looking for my answers. I'm glad you've found yours! I'll definitely be reading up on graded exercise
I'm thinking that one thing I will have to do is eat as "clean" as I can - processed food is a nightmare for me - and that will be a nightmare in another way as the hubs and I are on totally different ends of the food/health spectrum. But then, that's why I hope to have friends here to give me the support I won't get at home! As my diet gets cleaner, you'll see my logging get much more exact. If anything, right now, I'm over-estimating my calorie intake. As for the 1650, it came from setting up a DASH diet program with the RD and my cardiologist. I thought it was too high, but I'll have to prove it to them, lol. Until I'm at least a month in (I feel like I'm losing water weight right now), I won't have a good sense of where I should be and what's working. I'm determined.
Anyone else have a story to tell or advice to give me?9 -
Hun, your metablism is not at a standstill. If it was at a standstill you'd not storing food as fat as that's part of metabolism and a normal, healthy function if one eats too much calories. If it was at a standstill you would simply be dead.4
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@yirara - poor choice of words on my part. Let me rephrase. My ability to increase my BMR compared to a person with normal thyroid function or medicinally corrected thyroid function is essentially stalled. It's virtually impossible to build muscle without adequate t3. Without increasing muscle mass, it's difficult to increase BMR. Moderate exercise won't fix the t3 thing and other health issues preclude intense exercise. I'm currently researching how to increase my zinc absorption in the hopes of that increasing my ability to convert t4 to t3 and help with some other issues.
For the record, I am one of those people who do not believe " a calorie is a calorie". Maybe from a physics sense as far as energy, but not from a nutritional sense and effect on metabolism. Sorry... I don't think there is a single magic bullet for weight loss. There is a lot of science and studies out there I could quote here, but I won't because I know that horse has been beaten to death in the forums.
Our bodies are so complex and unique and there is so much science and medicine hasn't figured out yet.
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Please take a look at plant based diet, I have Fibromyalgia and doing plant based diet has help with the pain and Im losing weight too. I feel better. That means no meat, dairy or cheese, just whole foods, you will feel like a new person.9
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You don't need to increase your BMR to lose weight, or add to your efforts to create a calorie deficit.
It's pretty meaningless, actually.
You need to increase your TDEE, your total daily energy expenditure.
You can do that without building muscle, and you can start by increasing your daily movement. Pace while you're on the phone. Park further away in the parking lot. Take the stairs. Look, as I said into graded exercise (which is just a fancy way of saying "take baby steps").
These forums take a dim view of the saying "a calorie isn't a calorie". In theory, I know what you mean, but it's an empty phrase. Calories are units of measurement and they shouldn't be confused with what they measure, which is what people who say they aren't all the same seem to do. The things they measure aren't the same, and I'll agree with you on that point.
Different macronutrients and different foods have different effects on people, and those effects vary from one individual to the next. However, this doesn't mean that the calories which measure the energy in the foods which deliver those macronutrients are different. It means that the macronutrients are different.
Don't conflate nutrition with energy
You said you gained weight, but was that fat. There's a difference between edema, or water weight gain and fat gain if you're having an allergic response that's causing you to retain water to the point it's masking fat loss that you should be seeing from a caloric deficit.
Have you looked into a low-histamine diet? I've known people on another forum who have had to be on one.16 -
My friend has problem with inflammation when she eats gluten0
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^ this ... it is right on.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You don't need to increase your BMR to lose weight, or add to your efforts to create a calorie deficit.
It's pretty meaningless, actually.
You need to increase your TDEE, your total daily energy expenditure.
You can do that without building muscle, and you can start by increasing your daily movement. Pace while you're on the phone. Park further away in the parking lot. Take the stairs. Look, as I said into graded exercise (which is just a fancy way of saying "take baby steps").
These forums take a dim view of the saying "a calorie isn't a calorie". In theory, I know what you mean, but it's an empty phrase. Calories are units of measurement and they shouldn't be confused with what they measure, which is what people who say they aren't all the same seem to do. The things they measure aren't the same, and I'll agree with you on that point.
Different macronutrients and different foods have different effects on people, and those effects vary from one individual to the next. However, this doesn't mean that the calories which measure the energy in the foods which deliver those macronutrients are different. It means that the macronutrients are different.
Don't conflate nutrition with energy
You said you gained weight, but was that fat. There's a difference between edema, or water weight gain and fat gain if you're having an allergic response that's causing you to retain water to the point it's masking fat loss that you should be seeing from a caloric deficit.
Have you looked into a low-histamine diet? I've known people on another forum who have had to be on one.
Also ... how is your gut working (as in elimination) ... you'd be amazed at how much weight a full small intestine and blocked up colon can add to your scale.
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@gottaburnemall - the first words out of every new Dr's mouth (except a nephrologist) over the past ten years is "have you tried diuretics to lose some of the water you're retaining?" I have no doubt that a lot of it is water. I believe much of it is due to a condition called lipoedema (not to be confused with lipidemia), but there are only a handful of Drs in the entire region who have the training to diagnose it... and the insurance won't pay (nor can I afford the time away from work) for the diagnosis or treatment to help with the symptoms. As for diuretics, I have tried them - they don't work for me and my kidneys don't like them. The doctors scratch their heads and shrug their shoulders because what should work, doesn't. That is why I started looking for different answers. Because I have a histamine reaction to virtually every food they've tested, it's probably a cumulative effect there too. At this point, I'm looking to reduce whatever fat there is lurking. I will definitely look for the low-histamine thread. Thank you for mentioning that!
This is part of what I'm trying to become more accountable for here. I know I could do better, but I average about 7500 steps a day (I have a desk job or it would be more), and with 8 grandkids, my weekends are often filled with activity (I'm not a passive grandma who likes to just sit back and watch the kids play). I leave the couch potato-ing to my hubby.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You need to increase your TDEE, your total daily energy expenditure.
You can do that without building muscle, and you can start by increasing your daily movement. Pace while you're on the phone. Park further away in the parking lot. Take the stairs. Look, as I said into graded exercise (which is just a fancy way of saying "take baby steps").
@jennpinklady - I had decided last night that this actually begins for me tomorrow. Part of the reason for this post was to see if anyone else had tried - so thank you for your input! I've actually tried a more moderate version (with lean meats and eggs, but lots of fruits and veggies) and did feel better, although the weight wasn't budging much. That was a couple years back and I had a little more support at home because my stepdaughter was living with us and on board with it for her own weight issues. I've heard and read so much more since then about the positive results, that I announced a couple hours ago that I was going to give it a try again for at least two weeks - and if there's any improvement, I can live with eating like that forever. Hubby is NOT on board and I'll never convince him - which, from experience, will make it stressful. It may cost me a relationship, but it may save my life... I still have a long bucket listjennpinklady wrote: »Please take a look at plant based diet, I have Fibromyalgia and doing plant based diet has help with the pain and Im losing weight too. I feel better. That means no meat, dairy or cheese, just whole foods, you will feel like a new person.
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So you are saying that you are somehow defying the laws of thermodynamics and cannot lose weight at all and even GAIN whilst in a deficit? And your doctors are baffled by this?
1. You need tested in a lab as a medical marvel
and/or
2. Get new doctors because they should not be unable to work out why you gained on a strictly controlled intake
I'm sorry, as much as you don't want to hear it, there isn't a medical condition in the world that will stop someone losing weight if their calorie intake is below their output. If you didn't lose on 1250 for 6 weeks what happened in the 6 weeks after you stopped? Because no losses would suggest that's maintenance and you would gain rapidly once increasing calories. In fact, it would suggest you're constantly gaining because you really have to monitor intake closely to keep it at that low a level.
There are so many people here who have a whole plethora of medical conditions, many share yours, and they have successfully lost weight without any magic or trickery.7 -
@VintageFeline - Evidently me and a lot of other people. This paper explains it in simpler terms (with journal references in the footnotes) better than I could. https://www.edinstitute.org/paper/2015/6/13/gaining-weight-despite-calorie-restrictionVintageFeline wrote: »So you are saying that you are somehow defying the laws of thermodynamics and cannot lose weight at all and even GAIN whilst in a deficit? And your doctors are baffled by this?
1. You need tested in a lab as a medical marvel
and/or
2. Get new doctors because they should not be unable to work out why you gained on a strictly controlled intake
I'm in no way saying I can't lose weight, but for reasons still unknown to me and my medical providers, the only real successes I've had with weight loss were on a 700 calorie a day diet, which got me in all kinds of other trouble medically - and that was in the midst of running around with three kids, working a full time job, and exercising an hour and a half a day. And yes, piled the weight back on for a number of reasons - some quite traumatic both physically and mentally - and of course I gained it much more easily.
If I had the financial resources, I would be checking myself in to the Mayo Clinic hospital here in AZ to have that testing done. It's been suggested. Thanks for adding to the suggestions pile Oh, and keep in mind that science evolves as well - Pluto used to be a planet, life does exist on other planets (even if it's microbial) and ulcers were believed to be caused by stress. That second law of thermal dynamics supports me just as well as the first supports you.
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This is my second go-round of serious weight loss. The first time I lost weight, I lost 50 lbs, going from the bottom limit morbidly obese to the top limit of overweight. I was happy with myself, working out at a high level, and planned to lose even more weight. Then my lupus flared so badly I was eventually bedridden. I tried so hard to maintain my fitness and just power through the flare... there were times when I felt I was crawling around the walking path at the park, with my heartrate skyrocketing - a path I had been able to run just a few weeks before. I ended up gaining the weight back because eating was literally the only activity that didn't hurt.
So, in that instance, losing weight definitely did not improve my inflammatory illness. In fact it did the exact opposite. It seemed like my body rebelled against being expected to become fit.
This go round I have diabetes as well as lupus. I've lost 57 lbs so far, am no longer obese, have reduced my A1c from 11 to 4.9, and I'm terrified my lupus is going to take all my gains away from me at any moment. The dieting and exercise have definitely improved my heart rate, lipids, and other markers of health, and at the moment I'm not having a lupus flare. Fingers crossed.4 -
@rheddmobile - Dealing with the medical issues you have the way you do is awesome. Congrats on the A1c numbers. You should be very proud of yourself! My daughter has a friend who was diagnosed with Lupus when they were 22... my daughter was diagnosed with life-threatening thyroid storm a few years later and still has significant health issues. They were both struggling with dietary/ weight issues, but then adopted vegetarian lifestyles which really seems to help them over bad times and maybe even prevent flares. Keeping my fingers crossed for you too!1
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DevotedToDASH wrote: »That's awesome that you've found your answers - helps me feel hopeful. I'm very familiar with much of the information you've shared, but thanks for sharing it for everyone.
As for this -GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
And, I'm sorry, but speaking as someone who has medical conditions, you can lose weight just like everyone else, you just need to learn how to be accurate in your calorie counting and logging. If you read the forum stickies, you will get plenty of tips on how to do this. It's where I learned how to do it, and I always thought it was impossible for me to lose weight and thought I'd tried everything. I was wrong.
I've logged foods (weighed down to the gram and calories counted very accurately) for months at a time at a level (1250 kcals/day) where my PCP and RD said I "couldn't not lose weight" - and I gained or lost so slowly that I lost confidence and motivation.
This confuses me... the same calorie amount causes you to gain OR lose slowly? That makes no sense. It would seem you have to be confusing your water retention with fat gain. (As has been pointed out, a person's fat loss can easily be masked by water retention, even a substantial amount.) But ultimately, if you can lose at 1200, albeit more slowly than you might like, you can lose.
How many calories do you eat when you're not restricting? If you were gaining body fat on 1200 calories, it would seem the weight would pile on at an outrageous rate at a normal calorie level.
I realize this was not the issue you posted about. Usually, posters will attempt to clarify an issue like this for the benefit of others who may casually read it and think, "Oh, see there- not everyone can lose weight!" I don't think we know everything there is to know about weight loss, but in the vast majority of cases (like, really vast), the problem boils down to very ordinary, fixable issues. Hope you can find a way to progress. 4 -
This confuses me... the same calorie amount causes you to gain OR lose slowly? That makes no sense. It would seem you have to be confusing your water retention with fat gain. (As has been pointed out, a person's fat loss can easily be masked by water retention, even a substantial amount.) But ultimately, if you can lose at 1200, albeit more slowly than you might like, you can lose.
How many calories do you eat when you're not restricting? If you were gaining body fat on 1200 calories, it would seem the weight would pile on at an outrageous rate at a normal calorie level.
I realize this was not the issue you posted about. Usually, posters will attempt to clarify an issue like this for the benefit of others who may casually read it and think, "Oh, see there- not everyone can lose weight!" I don't think we know everything there is to know about weight loss, but in the vast majority of cases (like, really vast), the problem boils down to very ordinary, fixable issues. Hope you can find a way to progress.
If what you're asking is whether I know how much of my excess weight is fat - no. Average calorie intake is typically between 1500-1800 calories with occasional splurges (a dinner out with wine or dessert once a month). Because of my body habitus (and what I'm supposing is lipoedema) biometric impedance is not accurate since it bases water composition on what registers in the legs (or arms if they're doing arm-leg studies) and mine definitely carry more water than the rest of my body proportionately. I don't float easily in water, which I've been told indicates more water than fat, but to my knowledge, only full body imaging like MRI or DEXA would give really accurate results. The radiation risk isn't worth it to me. I once asked a physician how much excess water weight I was likely carrying around and they guessed about 45-50 pounds... nothing like the 3-4 lbs most women intermittently gain or lose.
To clarify the 1200 calories and losing slowly or gaining - it most definitely depends on exactly what I'm eating, what time of year it is, what medications I'm on, and at that point in time, what time of the month it was, as well as what my last meal was. Summer heat is an automatic 10-15 pound weight gain. SSRIs or beta blockers can add another 10, but I occasionally need them to deal with PTSD. And while I hate pointing to sugar again, eating a protein bar is the same as eating half a candy bar and can cause me a 5 lb water weight gain that doesn't go away in a week. Imagine a life with a full schedule and without any processed or fast foods and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what I am trying to figure out.
Let's be honest. When people look at an overweight person, they're not considering whether it's water or fat that's making them "fluffy"... and when I get on a scale or try to do something that my size doesn't allow me to do, I just want to be a more normal weight. Figuring out how to get there in a world where the "rules" don't work for you isn't fun, but I will figure it out. Hopefully, eating clean and vegetarian will help - or at least provide me another thing to cross off my list of trials and errors.
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I definitely believe my weight contributed to my development of Hashimotos....
I too have Hashimoto's but I don't think my weight contributed to my development of the disease. I was diagnosed at age 20 at around 120 lbs. I also have an adrenal tumor, not caused by my weight but since it causes an increase in my cortisol and some other hormones it does cause weight gain by Cushing's disease. Not exactly inflammation, but it can be resolved by surgery. As soon as it gets large enough for my insurance to cover it.3 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »
This confuses me... the same calorie amount causes you to gain OR lose slowly? That makes no sense. It would seem you have to be confusing your water retention with fat gain. (As has been pointed out, a person's fat loss can easily be masked by water retention, even a substantial amount.) But ultimately, if you can lose at 1200, albeit more slowly than you might like, you can lose.
How many calories do you eat when you're not restricting? If you were gaining body fat on 1200 calories, it would seem the weight would pile on at an outrageous rate at a normal calorie level.
I realize this was not the issue you posted about. Usually, posters will attempt to clarify an issue like this for the benefit of others who may casually read it and think, "Oh, see there- not everyone can lose weight!" I don't think we know everything there is to know about weight loss, but in the vast majority of cases (like, really vast), the problem boils down to very ordinary, fixable issues. Hope you can find a way to progress.
If what you're asking is whether I know how much of my excess weight is fat - no. Average calorie intake is typically between 1500-1800 calories with occasional splurges (a dinner out with wine or dessert once a month). Because of my body habitus (and what I'm supposing is lipoedema) biometric impedance is not accurate since it bases water composition on what registers in the legs (or arms if they're doing arm-leg studies) and mine definitely carry more water than the rest of my body proportionately. I don't float easily in water, which I've been told indicates more water than fat, but to my knowledge, only full body imaging like MRI or DEXA would give really accurate results. The radiation risk isn't worth it to me. I once asked a physician how much excess water weight I was likely carrying around and they guessed about 45-50 pounds... nothing like the 3-4 lbs most women intermittently gain or lose.
To clarify the 1200 calories and losing slowly or gaining - it most definitely depends on exactly what I'm eating, what time of year it is, what medications I'm on, and at that point in time, what time of the month it was, as well as what my last meal was. Summer heat is an automatic 10-15 pound weight gain. SSRIs or beta blockers can add another 10, but I occasionally need them to deal with PTSD. And while I hate pointing to sugar again, eating a protein bar is the same as eating half a candy bar and can cause me a 5 lb water weight gain that doesn't go away in a week. Imagine a life with a full schedule and without any processed or fast foods and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what I am trying to figure out.
Let's be honest. When people look at an overweight person, they're not considering whether it's water or fat that's making them "fluffy"... and when I get on a scale or try to do something that my size doesn't allow me to do, I just want to be a more normal weight. Figuring out how to get there in a world where the "rules" don't work for you isn't fun, but I will figure it out. Hopefully, eating clean and vegetarian will help - or at least provide me another thing to cross off my list of trials and errors.
My point was just that you are reaching conclusions about your ability and the circumstances under which you can lose weight (fat) when your data is being completely skewed by fluctuating water weight. That you were on a 1200 calorie diet and gained water weight from one of your medical issues doesn't mean the calorie deficit wasn't successfully burning *fat*. But it's true a person in your situation would really have to be patient & committed long-term to see the true results, and I readily acknowledge that wouldn't be easy.10 -
I have some autoimmune problems. When they act up I tend to gain weight. My TDEE seems to drop by many hundred calories quite quickly. I can still lose weight but it is much more difficult. Weight gain on the other hand becomes laughably easy.
For me, flare-ups and inflammation lead to weight gain.2 -
To answer the questions I missed earlier -
I'm 5'4", have a little over 100 lbs to lose, and while I was diagnosed with Hashi's about 10 years ago, because I have a naturally rapid heart rate (even in my teens when I weighed about 125 and was super active, it hung around 95 at rest), the conventional wisdom of the day was that I couldn't have thyroid problems because of the rapid heart. My inflammatory markers were already high, I had digestive issues and I was also having problems with edema already. I went through myriad tests but I think they were looking in the wrong direction. Medicine has gotten smarter in some ways, although it took begging 3 drs before they would consider the possibility of hypothyroidism.
IBS-D doesn't really allow for food build-up in the gut, although it can cause malnutrition which can lead to obesity. No celiac disease, based on a scope and biopsies.
I work full time - it's a desk job, but I do quite a bit of training new hires, so I'm up and about the office pretty frequently. Kids are grown... but the grandkids keep me busy whenever I can spend time with them on weekends.
While it is awful dealing with inflammation, it's good to know that I'm not the only one that feels like it could be a contributor to weight gain. For those of us who deal with it daily, it sounds like it's really about finding what works on an individual basis... here's hoping we all find our answers.1 -
So you say you have lipedema. With this condition body fat is not stored additionally in certain body parts but preferentially in certain body parts, often legs or arms. Furthermore, it causes more problems when sitting a lot and when it's hot. A complication on later stage lipedema is the storage of lymphatic fluids in the affected body parts. To prevent this and/or find relief you'd need to look for someone knowleadgable in lymphatic massage and bandaging. And you most likely need to wear propperly fitted compression thighs. Low impact sports, like swimming, walking and cycling seems beneficial.
There are many patient groups in my home country for lipedema. The recommendation is indeed: lymphatic evaluation and massage, wear compressional thighs, and learn from a specialist how to bandage the affected parts, and overall weight loss. This does not stop the progression of the desease but slows it down.3 -
So you maintain on 1500-1800. So you would absolutely lose on 1250 despite your assertions you didn't, you just didn't ride it out long enough to see scale losses because of water weight issues.
But what you do is up to you. None of us can lose the weight for you.8 -
Just out of curiosity, what is your current height and weight? How much does your weight fluctuate on a given day and when you eat fast foods?
Have your doctors talked to you about weight loss medications like saxenda or contrave? Are you open to trying a medically supervised weight loss program, where the doctor carefully monitors your intake and blood work?
While excess weight does cause inflammation, I wonder if your excess weight is contributing to your numerous health problems, or if you had numerous health problems which contributed to your current predicament (excess weight). Have you always been your current weight?1 -
jennpinklady wrote: »Please take a look at plant based diet, I have Fibromyalgia and doing plant based diet has help with the pain and Im losing weight too. I feel better. That means no meat, dairy or cheese, just whole foods, you will feel like a new person.
And yet, plant based wreaked havoc on my fibro....7 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »
@VintageFeline - Evidently me and a lot of other people. This paper explains it in simpler terms (with journal references in the footnotes) better than I could. https://www.edinstitute.org/paper/2015/6/13/gaining-weight-despite-calorie-restrictionVintageFeline wrote: »So you are saying that you are somehow defying the laws of thermodynamics and cannot lose weight at all and even GAIN whilst in a deficit? And your doctors are baffled by this?
1. You need tested in a lab as a medical marvel
and/or
2. Get new doctors because they should not be unable to work out why you gained on a strictly controlled intake
I'm in no way saying I can't lose weight, but for reasons still unknown to me and my medical providers, the only real successes I've had with weight loss were on a 700 calorie a day diet, which got me in all kinds of other trouble medically - and that was in the midst of running around with three kids, working a full time job, and exercising an hour and a half a day. And yes, piled the weight back on for a number of reasons - some quite traumatic both physically and mentally - and of course I gained it much more easily.
If I had the financial resources, I would be checking myself in to the Mayo Clinic hospital here in AZ to have that testing done. It's been suggested. Thanks for adding to the suggestions pile Oh, and keep in mind that science evolves as well - Pluto used to be a planet, life does exist on other planets (even if it's microbial) and ulcers were believed to be caused by stress. That second law of thermal dynamics supports me just as well as the first supports you.
The site for your source is run by people who won't even give their credentials for giving advice and they use EXTREME fat-positive language.
They are wrong.
That article you posted is wrong.
Metabolic ward studies that restrict calories all will show people losing weight.
You may have trouble because of lipedema (that's the American spelling). A former poster reported some success managing hers with a low carb diet, I'd suggest giving that a try.
I'd also suggest you try joining the low carb group, there might be other members there dealing with lipedema.
I'd also suggest doing research on how to better vet your sources.8 -
I love the name. Dedicated to DASH.
I love this way of eating. Giving up fast food, and frozen meals has been hard. I don't see a need to go plant based, since grilled chicken breast is a staple for me. For inflammation, I take a fish oil along with my multivitamin. I also put Turmeric on my foods. Don't give up. Never give up.3 -
Maybe this is helpful: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lipoedema/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Best wishes for improving your health1
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