Does Obesity Cause Inflammation? Or Is It the Other Way Around?
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DevotedToDASH wrote: »
This confuses me... the same calorie amount causes you to gain OR lose slowly? That makes no sense. It would seem you have to be confusing your water retention with fat gain. (As has been pointed out, a person's fat loss can easily be masked by water retention, even a substantial amount.) But ultimately, if you can lose at 1200, albeit more slowly than you might like, you can lose.
How many calories do you eat when you're not restricting? If you were gaining body fat on 1200 calories, it would seem the weight would pile on at an outrageous rate at a normal calorie level.
I realize this was not the issue you posted about. Usually, posters will attempt to clarify an issue like this for the benefit of others who may casually read it and think, "Oh, see there- not everyone can lose weight!" I don't think we know everything there is to know about weight loss, but in the vast majority of cases (like, really vast), the problem boils down to very ordinary, fixable issues. Hope you can find a way to progress.
If what you're asking is whether I know how much of my excess weight is fat - no. Average calorie intake is typically between 1500-1800 calories with occasional splurges (a dinner out with wine or dessert once a month). Because of my body habitus (and what I'm supposing is lipoedema) biometric impedance is not accurate since it bases water composition on what registers in the legs (or arms if they're doing arm-leg studies) and mine definitely carry more water than the rest of my body proportionately. I don't float easily in water, which I've been told indicates more water than fat, but to my knowledge, only full body imaging like MRI or DEXA would give really accurate results. The radiation risk isn't worth it to me. I once asked a physician how much excess water weight I was likely carrying around and they guessed about 45-50 pounds... nothing like the 3-4 lbs most women intermittently gain or lose.
To clarify the 1200 calories and losing slowly or gaining - it most definitely depends on exactly what I'm eating, what time of year it is, what medications I'm on, and at that point in time, what time of the month it was, as well as what my last meal was. Summer heat is an automatic 10-15 pound weight gain. SSRIs or beta blockers can add another 10, but I occasionally need them to deal with PTSD. And while I hate pointing to sugar again, eating a protein bar is the same as eating half a candy bar and can cause me a 5 lb water weight gain that doesn't go away in a week. Imagine a life with a full schedule and without any processed or fast foods and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what I am trying to figure out.
Let's be honest. When people look at an overweight person, they're not considering whether it's water or fat that's making them "fluffy"... and when I get on a scale or try to do something that my size doesn't allow me to do, I just want to be a more normal weight. Figuring out how to get there in a world where the "rules" don't work for you isn't fun, but I will figure it out. Hopefully, eating clean and vegetarian will help - or at least provide me another thing to cross off my list of trials and errors.
My point was just that you are reaching conclusions about your ability and the circumstances under which you can lose weight (fat) when your data is being completely skewed by fluctuating water weight. That you were on a 1200 calorie diet and gained water weight from one of your medical issues doesn't mean the calorie deficit wasn't successfully burning *fat*. But it's true a person in your situation would really have to be patient & committed long-term to see the true results, and I readily acknowledge that wouldn't be easy.10 -
I have some autoimmune problems. When they act up I tend to gain weight. My TDEE seems to drop by many hundred calories quite quickly. I can still lose weight but it is much more difficult. Weight gain on the other hand becomes laughably easy.
For me, flare-ups and inflammation lead to weight gain.2 -
To answer the questions I missed earlier -
I'm 5'4", have a little over 100 lbs to lose, and while I was diagnosed with Hashi's about 10 years ago, because I have a naturally rapid heart rate (even in my teens when I weighed about 125 and was super active, it hung around 95 at rest), the conventional wisdom of the day was that I couldn't have thyroid problems because of the rapid heart. My inflammatory markers were already high, I had digestive issues and I was also having problems with edema already. I went through myriad tests but I think they were looking in the wrong direction. Medicine has gotten smarter in some ways, although it took begging 3 drs before they would consider the possibility of hypothyroidism.
IBS-D doesn't really allow for food build-up in the gut, although it can cause malnutrition which can lead to obesity. No celiac disease, based on a scope and biopsies.
I work full time - it's a desk job, but I do quite a bit of training new hires, so I'm up and about the office pretty frequently. Kids are grown... but the grandkids keep me busy whenever I can spend time with them on weekends.
While it is awful dealing with inflammation, it's good to know that I'm not the only one that feels like it could be a contributor to weight gain. For those of us who deal with it daily, it sounds like it's really about finding what works on an individual basis... here's hoping we all find our answers.1 -
So you say you have lipedema. With this condition body fat is not stored additionally in certain body parts but preferentially in certain body parts, often legs or arms. Furthermore, it causes more problems when sitting a lot and when it's hot. A complication on later stage lipedema is the storage of lymphatic fluids in the affected body parts. To prevent this and/or find relief you'd need to look for someone knowleadgable in lymphatic massage and bandaging. And you most likely need to wear propperly fitted compression thighs. Low impact sports, like swimming, walking and cycling seems beneficial.
There are many patient groups in my home country for lipedema. The recommendation is indeed: lymphatic evaluation and massage, wear compressional thighs, and learn from a specialist how to bandage the affected parts, and overall weight loss. This does not stop the progression of the desease but slows it down.3 -
So you maintain on 1500-1800. So you would absolutely lose on 1250 despite your assertions you didn't, you just didn't ride it out long enough to see scale losses because of water weight issues.
But what you do is up to you. None of us can lose the weight for you.8 -
Just out of curiosity, what is your current height and weight? How much does your weight fluctuate on a given day and when you eat fast foods?
Have your doctors talked to you about weight loss medications like saxenda or contrave? Are you open to trying a medically supervised weight loss program, where the doctor carefully monitors your intake and blood work?
While excess weight does cause inflammation, I wonder if your excess weight is contributing to your numerous health problems, or if you had numerous health problems which contributed to your current predicament (excess weight). Have you always been your current weight?1 -
jennpinklady wrote: »Please take a look at plant based diet, I have Fibromyalgia and doing plant based diet has help with the pain and Im losing weight too. I feel better. That means no meat, dairy or cheese, just whole foods, you will feel like a new person.
And yet, plant based wreaked havoc on my fibro....7 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »
@VintageFeline - Evidently me and a lot of other people. This paper explains it in simpler terms (with journal references in the footnotes) better than I could. https://www.edinstitute.org/paper/2015/6/13/gaining-weight-despite-calorie-restrictionVintageFeline wrote: »So you are saying that you are somehow defying the laws of thermodynamics and cannot lose weight at all and even GAIN whilst in a deficit? And your doctors are baffled by this?
1. You need tested in a lab as a medical marvel
and/or
2. Get new doctors because they should not be unable to work out why you gained on a strictly controlled intake
I'm in no way saying I can't lose weight, but for reasons still unknown to me and my medical providers, the only real successes I've had with weight loss were on a 700 calorie a day diet, which got me in all kinds of other trouble medically - and that was in the midst of running around with three kids, working a full time job, and exercising an hour and a half a day. And yes, piled the weight back on for a number of reasons - some quite traumatic both physically and mentally - and of course I gained it much more easily.
If I had the financial resources, I would be checking myself in to the Mayo Clinic hospital here in AZ to have that testing done. It's been suggested. Thanks for adding to the suggestions pile Oh, and keep in mind that science evolves as well - Pluto used to be a planet, life does exist on other planets (even if it's microbial) and ulcers were believed to be caused by stress. That second law of thermal dynamics supports me just as well as the first supports you.
The site for your source is run by people who won't even give their credentials for giving advice and they use EXTREME fat-positive language.
They are wrong.
That article you posted is wrong.
Metabolic ward studies that restrict calories all will show people losing weight.
You may have trouble because of lipedema (that's the American spelling). A former poster reported some success managing hers with a low carb diet, I'd suggest giving that a try.
I'd also suggest you try joining the low carb group, there might be other members there dealing with lipedema.
I'd also suggest doing research on how to better vet your sources.8 -
I love the name. Dedicated to DASH.
I love this way of eating. Giving up fast food, and frozen meals has been hard. I don't see a need to go plant based, since grilled chicken breast is a staple for me. For inflammation, I take a fish oil along with my multivitamin. I also put Turmeric on my foods. Don't give up. Never give up.3 -
Maybe this is helpful: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lipoedema/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Best wishes for improving your health1 -
Maybe this is helpful: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lipoedema/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Best wishes for improving your health
OP doesn't appear to be saying they've been diagnosed with this, just that they are sensitive to the natural water weight fluctuations many of us experience.
And I missed it but re-reading I notice the mention of leaky gut. Which isn't a thing.5 -
OP did say that she think she might have lipedema, but with the water weight fluctuations, it sounds more like lymphedema.
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Also want to mention that in no case does malnutrition ever lead to obesity. People would never die of starvation if such a thing were the case.
I have celiac disease, and before it was diagnosed I had uncontrollable diarrhea and was not absorbing nutrients.
This led to rapid weight loss, not weight retention.
I (and my son) also have IBS-D, which I control with diet. When it flares, it never leads to weight gain.5 -
Man, we're hitting all the myths in one thread, eh?6
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@DevotedtoDash I am looking over that article you posted (https://www.edinstitute.org/paper/2015/6/13/gaining-weight-despite-calorie-restriction ).
It appears all the sources they cited link back the homepage of their blog.2 -
oops nvm I see all the sources at the bottom. It will take time to go through them.1
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There are many patient groups in my home country for lipedema. The recommendation is indeed: lymphatic evaluation and massage, wear compressional thighs, and learn from a specialist how to bandage the affected parts, and overall weight loss. This does not stop the progression of the disease but slows it down.
@yirara There is no insurance coverage for this in the US, as it's considered cosmetic... which means my out of pocket costs for initial treatment would cost me upwards of $4-5k and every session afterwards would be approximately $100 (weekly or biweekly) for no more than two areas. That doesn't include the bandages or compression garments - or income lost from work hours lost. I have already spent about $500 on compression stockings and a couple pairs of compression tights, but without insurance coverage, the cost for treatment is formidable for me. There are only two doctors in the state I live in that are trained/willing to diagnose/treat this disorder - one is not taking new patients, and the other will only diagnose and give a list of therapists from what I understand. Liposuction has become the new standard treatment here, but at $4-7k a session with multiple sessions - not happening right now. Regular massage is just too painful, so that's not an option either.TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »I love the name. Dedicated to DASH.
I love this way of eating. Giving up fast food, and frozen meals has been hard. I don't see a need to go plant based, since grilled chicken breast is a staple for me. For inflammation, I take a fish oil along with my multivitamin. I also put Turmeric on my foods. Don't give up. Never give up.
@TheWJordinWJordin Thanks for the encouragement. I guess part of the reason I'm thinking vegetarian and organic would be good right now is I'm really trying to calm the inflammation. You just don't know what you're getting with animal protein - between the antibiotics they're given and the GMO feed and pesticides, it all works its way up the food chain and into our bodies. If I do eat meat, it will likely be free range chicken or free range grass fed beef. I want to give my immune system a break. I started turmeric last week - in capsule form. Haven't noticed a difference yet, but it takes time, I've taken fish oil supplements for a long time now. I am adding a larger dose of zinc to my daily regimen as there is research showing that has a positive effect on thyroid function.
Noted... I have access to a great deal of journal articles and will in the future. Didn't realize that everyone understood medical terminology - but cool! That one was in simple English and provided sources so I thought it was a good basic resource.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'd also suggest doing research on how to better vet your sources.Have your doctors talked to you about weight loss medications like saxenda or contrave? Are you open to trying a medically supervised weight loss program, where the doctor carefully monitors your intake and blood work?
While excess weight does cause inflammation, I wonder if your excess weight is contributing to your numerous health problems, or if you had numerous health problems which contributed to your current predicament (excess weight). Have you always been your current weight?
@ugofatcat Not a candidate for anything that would increase a risk of arrhythmia (personal/family history), pancreatitis (personal GI problems), thyroid cancer (family history) or doesn't play well with PTSD meds. I wish I had an answer to what came first. I'm guessing the health problems, because I had some quirky medical problems even as a child that doctors couldn't explain (long term FUOs, anemia, muscle pain) and others that were diagnosable - like migraine syndrome (onset around age 5, not formally diagnosed until age 18). Too many antibiotics did a number on my ability to absorb nutrients well - although probiotics help with that. Also, because I have a quirky form of familial hypertension not related to weight, most doctors are really hesitant about anything that could have a negative effect on that. Haven't always been my current weight - only 8 lbs 15 oz when I was born, lol - j/k... but pretty much always overweight unless I really restricted. Haven't been in Onederland in over 15 years. Genetics are miserable, although mom is still going strong at 93 (but wheelchair bound and never very active in her lifestyle).
Lots of great feedback and questions - keeps me thinking. I'm still feeling positive about achieving progress, so if sounds like I'm all negativity, I'm not. I've just got a lot of roadblocks and I'm looking for ways around or over them.2 -
Regarding the lipedema, even if you have that, what you have said regarding fluid issues indicates that you likely have lymph involvement, and that necessitates another type of treatment protocol that you should see someone about.
Lipedema involves the abnormal accumulation of fat cells in the extremities. It has nothing to do with fluid in those areas. You have mentioned fluid several times in this thread. They're separate issues, though someone can suffer from both conditions.
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Doctors know about this program. They may ask for a printout so log accurately every single day. Get a food scale if you don't have one. They are next to measuring cups at the store.
I know you will get better.0 -
jennpinklady wrote: »Please take a look at plant based diet, I have Fibromyalgia and doing plant based diet has help with the pain and Im losing weight too. I feel better. That means no meat, dairy or cheese, just whole foods, you will feel like a new person.
@jennpinklady it is great that this way of eating is working for you because others report the same. Will another person eating the same way feel like a new person is unknown before trying it.
In my case I cut out all added sugar and all forms of all grains Oct 2014. In just 30 days my 40 year of pain levels in the 7-8 range had dropped to 2-3 range. Today it is even lower and I have maintained my weight loss for the past two years. While I could say it will work for everyone that eats my Way Of Eating but I know that will not be the case. I do eat a more plant based diet today but I get a ton of my protein from fish and some from other meats, dairy/cheese but from whole products for the most part.
The point there are many WOE's to successfully eat and still reverse/prevent health issues.
Yes fat can cause inflammation as clearly supported by others above as well as different types of foods may cause inflammation in different people. Best of success to each one in finding the best way to eat in the case of each one.7
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