so, um, can you build strength (if not muscle) at a caloric deficit?

sak20011
sak20011 Posts: 94 Member
edited November 20 in Fitness and Exercise
Okay, so I get that you dont *add* muscle on a deficit--have to be at least at maintenance or above for that. But if that's true, why would you weight train at a deficit? Is there muscle conditioning or strengthening that happens even at a deficit--like my weak tight muscles that are there are getting a little longer and stronger? is weight training in a deficit a way to keep the muscles from wasting away during dieting?

I am close to goal weight and once I feel strong enough and get clearance from my PT I want to start a more serious weight lifting program, but in the meantime I've been starting to more seriously do squats, lunges, presses, etc (at pathetically light weights).

Replies

  • edlanglais5
    edlanglais5 Posts: 172 Member
    I believe now is the time for weight training, esp finally if you're close to your goal weight. Yes, you are correct. It can prevent you from losing muscle while in a deficit. I have other thoughts on this as well but not as well reseal as others, so will allow others to chime in.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    Yes, you can gain strength in a deficit. You can also retain as much muscle as possible. You can even gain muscle, especially as a beginner and non very lean person while in a deficit. It's not as much as when you eat more but it certainly happens.

    This video (specifically starting at the 5 minute mark) discusses this issue.

    https://youtu.be/MFo_wQq8M3Q
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    yup, i'll agree with this too. started adding wendler's boring-but-big set/rep format into my regular 5/3/1 at one point a while back.

    everybody i mentioned it to warned me 'you have to eat like a horse if you want that to go anywhere' but i found it all depends on where you want it to go. in my case, physical mass wasn't the goal. i actually stayed on my small-deficit-and-keep-an-eye-on-the-scale thing the entire time. i just wanted way more reps than 5/3/1 gives so i could perfect and 'groove' my form. and i wanted it to help make me stronger, of course.

    both those things happened, for what that's worth. and my weight stayed where it was and may have continued to drop a little. i don't know how long that would have lasted, but for the two or three months that i was doing it, i got stronger without getting any bigger.
  • ttippie2000
    ttippie2000 Posts: 412 Member
    I doc see limited increases in the weight I'm doing while running a calorie deficit. But that is in the context of doing a lot of working hard on speed, explosiveness and technique. I suspect this is in part because heavy powerlifts are super technical and as much as 35% of your power comes from inter-muscular coordination and a lot more comes from technique. When I run a calorie surplus I lift hard and it's much easier to increase, for example, my single rep max squat. As far as appearance goes, I think one sure way to make your shoulders, chest, legs, etc. look bigger is to make your stomach smaller.
  • gothchiq
    gothchiq Posts: 4,590 Member
    You can get stronger in a deficit. I've been doing it. You just don't add muscle bulk.
  • Okiludy
    Okiludy Posts: 558 Member
    edited July 2017
    I have gained strength and maybe a bit of muscle while losing 30lbs.

    6/5/2017
    Squat 45lbs 3x5
    Bench 45lbs 3x5
    Deadlift 65lbs 1x5

    7/21/2017
    Squat 230lbs 2x5
    Bench 145lbs 3x5
    Deadlift 320lbs 1x5

    Now I am an obese male and have plenty of fat to use as energy. I also never lifted seriously before but was very active until about 15 years ago.

    People at work have noticed more "athletic" but think they just mean not as fat. Still I'll take the compliment. Clothing getting very loose and might fit into pants 4" smaller than when I started in a week or two.

    I started lifting with Starting Strength but have moved to a powerlifting newbie program. Core lifts all competition lifts 3x a week. I also do assistance lifts 2x a week. I do swim for around 1-2km about 3x a week but no other cardio. I have been eating 30/30/40 carb/fat/protein at a calorie deficit to lose 1lbs a week.

    Edit: I also only eat back at most 1/2 of exercise calories from cardio and none from weights. A good 10lbs of loss likely water.
  • kellyfeb78
    kellyfeb78 Posts: 65 Member
    I've gained muscle despite being in a deficit but I lift every gym visit and as soon as it becomes easier I add more weights, I have some lovely biceps coming on at the moment lol
  • sak20011
    sak20011 Posts: 94 Member
    Thank you all! I will keep.at it the. I had done an hour of weight training this morning and just wondered, hey is this for naught? Glad to know it's not. My primary current goal is to get leaner and build strength/ injury prevention. I started trying to light heavier a couple years ago in the context of crossfit and it was great, until the strained shoulder, torn calf muscle and lower back issues....then I became a strenght training couch potato ( except yoga and occadional cardio). So I'm really restarting the muscle conditioning...
  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,283 Member
    I don't lift heavy; I work out with dumbbells, ankle weights, and body weight exercises at home. So far, I've gone from doing the majority of my exercises with 3-lb dumbbells (and 2.5lbs ankle weights on each foot) to a mix of 5 and 8lbs, with 5lb weights on each ankle. So, yes, definite strength gains, even in a deficit.
  • CipherZero
    CipherZero Posts: 1,418 Member
    Strength building, especially in novice lifters, is achieved through two mechanisms: Muscle mass increase and central nervous system (hereafter CNS) adaptations.

    There isn't a 1:1 ratio of nerve fibers to muscle cells. A single nerve impulse triggers multiple muscle cells to contract and produce movements. Even on large deficits it's possible to gain strength because your CNS is learning to fire more muscle cells simultaneously.

    Whether you can gain muscle mass on a deficit is wildly variable; if you're overfat and eating at maintenance, it's possible to use fat energy as calories to build muscle mass. Usually this is called a "recomposition" or recomp - where people say their weight is static but are still losing fat and gaining "leanness".
  • tk2222
    tk2222 Posts: 199 Member
    One more anecdote - I saw some increase in strength while on a deficit, a fairly steep one even, on 1300-1400 cals a day at 200+ pounds. I went from never having touched a weight in my life, starting with just the empty 20kg
    bar, to sticking to 5*5 and getting to 50kg squat in about 3-4 months. BUT, I also lost about 15kg over that period, so that may have been compensating, (I made good progress on the deadlift, but more modest gains on bench, rows, etc - ie, things where my own body weight played less part.) I also think some part of the progress was more about building the capability and confidence than strength per se. I did track macros pretty religiously and was able to average 100+ grams protein every day though.

    So, anyway, my experiences were a mixed bag - I definitely felt stronger, fitter and more energetic, and I was definitely a bit smaller at that weight then than I am at the same weight now, after a couple years of patchy physical activity and my best lifts at somewhat lower weights. Whether I actually gained any muscle or merely did a decent job preserving it would seem to be moot - weight lifting even with plenty to lose and eating at a deficit was definitely the right way to go.
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