Calling the Row Pros!
Nikitazilla
Posts: 69 Member
So I've been looking into getting a concept 2 rower and was able to try out a friends today. He gave me many tips on form, but I was just not able to keep my butt from scooting back instead of powering with my legs. I felt pretty ridiculous. Have any of you encountered this and how can I fix it? I really want to get it right. Thanks for any help!
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Replies
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Maybe try lowering the little lever to like 1 or 2 and slowly progress up as you get better?0
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That's fairly common, I think. I saw a guy do it in a race. Looked exceedingly painful.
Start here: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/technique-videos
Then watch this one:
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/technique-videos/common-errors
The "little lever" is called the damper. More here: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/damper-setting-101
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Yeah. Couple things that worked for me. Keep your back straight, chin up, and on the return stroke start sending your hands back first while your legs are still mostly locked out.
I've only been rowing for a few months though, I'm sure more experienced rowers may expand on or contradict. But these have all helped me.
EDIT: I was gonna make a comment on the drag lever referenced in the post above mine, but I'll let someone else who has more experience go on about it.2 -
You could just try doing some movement with legs only to get a feel for "pulling" yourself forward against the straps. Or do it holding the handle but keep the arms straight the whole time. Some people just have trouble coordinating lower and upper body movement at first.0
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Thanks everyone. I did check out a couple videos on the C2 site, Ill go back and check out the ones you've posted, and see what it says about damper setting too. I did try just arms and just legs, but yeah, together ended up with all that butt scooting.0
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not a rowing pro and this sounds cliche but after a few rowing sessions it'll get easier and you'll get into a flow and a rhythm and wont slide off.. i only slid off when i kept worrying about it..0
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tiffaninghs wrote: »not a rowing pro and this sounds cliche but after a few rowing sessions it'll get easier and you'll get into a flow and a rhythm and wont slide off.. i only slid off when i kept worrying about it..
Thank you for your reply. Do you mean like butt sliding off of the seat? What's happening to me is more like my butt on the seat is leaving position on the slide thing without my body. Not slipping off the seat. Sorry if that makes no sense.0 -
ahh maybe my but is big so it doesnt move.. lol.. i understand what ur saying.. maybe need more resistance.. maybe its too easy for u hence the sliding.. either way i hope u stick with it. it really gets my heart rate up1
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OP: You probably are not fully compressing your legs on the return (or start) and beginning the stroke too early w/your back.
On the return (or start), your hands should be on the handle close to the housing in front of your knees, your lower legs should be near vertical w/the heels of your feet slightly raised, your arms fully extended and your back stretched forward over your knees resulting in a compressed body position BEFORE beginning the stroke by pushing off w/your legs (w/the force felt in your feet).
When your heels drop and your upper thighs are parallel to the floor, your legs are at max extension and your butt cannot move any further. Your legs are locked in and provide support for the rest of the stroke.
At this point, with your arms still fully extended, you can begin to pull w/your lower back until your back rises to just slightly past vertical, at which point you hold your back in this position and begin to pull w your lats and shoulders and then flex your arms to complete the stroke by pulling the handle towards you until it touches your upper abdomen. Then return the handle to the start position by performing the same movements in reverse.
On the return, your hands should be ahead of the elevation of your lower legs. When your back is again stretched foward over your knees and your lower legs are again vertical w/the heels of your feet slightly raised and your body again in a compressed position, begin the stroke again.
Rythym and timing will maximize the power and efficiency of the stroke. 22-24 spm (strokes per min) is a good moderate stroke rate. Your power comes from how hard (not necessarily how fast) you pull. To go faster, you can just pull harder w/o significantly increasing your spm. I can increase the amount off effort (as expressed in cals) from 600 to 900 cal/hr w/o going over 24-25 spm. The speed and distance traveled rises accordingly.
Racers will get up to 30+spm. However, novices at 30+ spm are usually short stroking and are not fully compressing their legs at the start of the stroke or fully engaging their back/arms at the end, and as a result are not rowing at max power or effiency. See it alk the time at the gym.
The damper setting as nothing to do w/how much effort is used to pull. The damper is used to control the "drag factor" which simulates the way a scull slows in the water after a stroke has been completed and before another is begun. I use a damper setting of 6 for a drag factor of 130. You can find instructions on how to adjust the drag factor on Concept's website.
Hope this info is helpful.3 -
OP: You probably are not fully compressing your legs on the return (or start) and beginning the stroke too early w/your
I definitely feel this to be true. I am sure I wasn't fully compressing but I was feeling like I couldn't any further because I'm overweight. Would that make the difference? I should have put that detail in earlier.0 -
@sgt1372 Whoops, don't know my reply got in
the quote box, but here it is again. I definitely feel this to be true. I am sure I wasn't fully compressing but I was feeling like I couldn't any further because I'm overweight. Would that make the difference? I should have put that detail in earlier.0 -
Nikitazilla wrote: »tiffaninghs wrote: »not a rowing pro and this sounds cliche but after a few rowing sessions it'll get easier and you'll get into a flow and a rhythm and wont slide off.. i only slid off when i kept worrying about it..
Thank you for your reply. Do you mean like butt sliding off of the seat? What's happening to me is more like my butt on the seat is leaving position on the slide thing without my body. Not slipping off the seat. Sorry if that makes no sense.
I still have no idea what you are trying to explain.
Rowing should be
Legs, arms, arms, legs.
Keep your torso straight & engaged with shoulders just in front of hips. Arms straight out, drive with your legs first, and once at full extension pull with your arms as you lean back slightly.
As you come forward, don't bend your knees until your arms are straight.
Keep your shoulders relaxed0 -
Slow your stroke right down until you have managed to co-ordinate your arms and legs better.
Too many people go at it like the Duracell Bunny. Think power not speed if that helps.2 -
Nikitazilla wrote: »tiffaninghs wrote: »not a rowing pro and this sounds cliche but after a few rowing sessions it'll get easier and you'll get into a flow and a rhythm and wont slide off.. i only slid off when i kept worrying about it..
Thank you for your reply. Do you mean like butt sliding off of the seat? What's happening to me is more like my butt on the seat is leaving position on the slide thing without my body. Not slipping off the seat. Sorry if that makes no sense.
I still have no idea what you are trying to explain.
Rowing should be
Legs, arms, arms, legs.
Keep your torso straight & engaged with shoulders just in front of hips. Arms straight out, drive with your legs first, and once at full extension pull with your arms as you lean back slightly.
As you come forward, don't bend your knees until your arms are straight.
Keep your shoulders relaxed
Sorry it makes no sense and I have no videos of the issue. So when I push back with my legs my butt moves back without my upper body following and I can feel there is a issue because the chain feels slack/light and I can't get any torque . But on the time when body and butt move together it feels good. It's just I can rarely get that to happen.0 -
This. Filmed at my rowing club with our old head coach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA
I've been rowing, sculling, coxing, coaching and umpiring since 1999. I'm currently British indoor champion in my para category. I might be a bit of a pro...
1) Do NOT strap your feet in when you're learning. This is the easiest way to check you're actually doing it right. If your technique is decent, and all the movements are in the right order, then you don't need to have your feet strapped in for your warm up. (When you start going hard, you'll probably need them strapped in, but keep them out to nail technique first.)
2) Arms body legs, legs body arms
Using your body is vital to good rowing. It should swing between a sort of 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock position, maybe a bit less if your hip and hamstring flexibility isn't great.
Start with just your arms. Your shoulders should be behind your hips, with your back nice and straight.
Once you've got a smooth arm action going, add in the body swing. Make sure your body has finished swinging backwards before you bend your arms, and that your arms are pretty much straight before your body swings forwards.
When your arms and back are sorted, start by just bending your legs a TINY bit.
When that's well ingrained, bend your legs a bit more. It's really important to make sure your arms are straight and body is swung forward before you really bend your legs, or you'll end up doing the classic "gym monkey" thing where you have to lift the handle up to go over your knees. Bad bad bad
(It can be really tough to learn to maintain good body position as you start bending the legs more. Stick with it.)
Keep working your way forward, bending your knees a bit more, until you're as compressed as you can be (but never more so than the point at which your shins are vertical).
Keep reciting "legs body arms" as you push back, every time, until it's ingrained!!
3) Don't try and go fast, go HARD
You can get a perfectly tough workout by rating about 18 strokes per minute, and just pushing really, really hard.
There's zero reason to jack the rate up unless you're training for sprint racing or something.
Once you've got the technique locked in, your split (time per 500m) can easily be lower rating 18 than a gym monkey rating over 30. I can beat a lot of men in the gym, despite being lightweight rower size and a girl.
4) Consider other drills
Straight-arm rowing can be good for technique too. It's just legs body, body legs. It's a good way of emphasising the movement pattern in a slightly different way, which might help.
5) Check the drag factor
Not the damper setting on the side, go through the menu until you find "display drag setting" and make sure it's over 100. I favour about 115, big men go for around 130. If you can't get it that high, then you need to hoover the dust out of the fan! You can unscrew the side cover on the fan to get in there and clean it out.
If you have any more questions, just ask!
PS What you're doing is called bum-shoving in the UK, and shooting the slide in the US. It's so common in all kinds of rowing, that it has a name
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This. Filmed at my rowing club with our old head coach:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA
I've been rowing, sculling, coxing, coaching and umpiring since 1999. I'm currently British indoor champion in my para category. I might be a bit of a pro...
1) Do NOT strap your feet in when you're learning. This is the easiest way to check you're actually doing it right. If your technique is decent, and all the movements are in the right order, then you don't need to have your feet strapped in for your warm up. (When you start going hard, you'll probably need them strapped in, but keep them out to nail technique first.)
2) Arms body legs, legs body arms
Using your body is vital to good rowing. It should swing between a sort of 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock position, maybe a bit less if your hip and hamstring flexibility isn't great.
Start with just your arms. Your shoulders should be behind your hips, with your back nice and straight.
Once you've got a smooth arm action going, add in the body swing. Make sure your body has finished swinging backwards before you bend your arms, and that your arms are pretty much straight before your body swings forwards.
When your arms and back are sorted, start by just bending your legs a TINY bit.
When that's well ingrained, bend your legs a bit more. It's really important to make sure your arms are straight and body is swung forward before you really bend your legs, or you'll end up doing the classic "gym monkey" thing where you have to lift the handle up to go over your knees. Bad bad bad
(It can be really tough to learn to maintain good body position as you start bending the legs more. Stick with it.)
Keep working your way forward, bending your knees a bit more, until you're as compressed as you can be (but never more so than the point at which your shins are vertical).
Keep reciting "legs body arms" as you push back, every time, until it's ingrained!!
3) Don't try and go fast, go HARD
You can get a perfectly tough workout by rating about 18 strokes per minute, and just pushing really, really hard.
There's zero reason to jack the rate up unless you're training for sprint racing or something.
Once you've got the technique locked in, your split (time per 500m) can easily be lower rating 18 than a gym monkey rating over 30. I can beat a lot of men in the gym, despite being lightweight rower size and a girl.
4) Consider other drills
Straight-arm rowing can be good for technique too. It's just legs body, body legs. It's a good way of emphasising the movement pattern in a slightly different way, which might help.
5) Check the drag factor
Not the damper setting on the side, go through the menu until you find "display drag setting" and make sure it's over 100. I favour about 115, big men go for around 130. If you can't get it that high, then you need to hoover the dust out of the fan! You can unscrew the side cover on the fan to get in there and clean it out.
If you have any more questions, just ask!
PS What you're doing is called bum-shoving in the UK, and shooting the slide in the US. It's so common in all kinds of rowing, that it has a name
I had no idea bum-shoving was a thing, I thought I was special brand of freak! Makes me feel a little better? Thanks for your reply ( and everyone else too!) it warms my heart that everyone is so helpful . I am going to keep watching the videos, review your information, and will get on the rower tomorrow and see if i can't fix this thing.2 -
Nikitazilla wrote: »@sgt1372 Whoops, don't know my reply got in
the quote box, but here it is again. I definitely feel this to be true. I am sure I wasn't fully compressing but I was feeling like I couldn't any further because I'm overweight. Would that make the difference? I should have put that detail in earlier.
I haven't had your particular problem, but you might try lowering the footpads. I'm overweight as well and set them as low as possible. I think it's the setting marked "1." That gives you more room to compress your body into the catch position.1 -
Also, check out this page about getting comfortable on the C2 web site.
concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/getting-comfortable0 -
This. Filmed at my rowing club with our old head coach:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA
I've been rowing, sculling, coxing, coaching and umpiring since 1999. I'm currently British indoor champion in my para category. I might be a bit of a pro...
1) Do NOT strap your feet in when you're learning. This is the easiest way to check you're actually doing it right. If your technique is decent, and all the movements are in the right order, then you don't need to have your feet strapped in for your warm up. (When you start going hard, you'll probably need them strapped in, but keep them out to nail technique first.)
2) Arms body legs, legs body arms
Using your body is vital to good rowing. It should swing between a sort of 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock position, maybe a bit less if your hip and hamstring flexibility isn't great.
Start with just your arms. Your shoulders should be behind your hips, with your back nice and straight.
Once you've got a smooth arm action going, add in the body swing. Make sure your body has finished swinging backwards before you bend your arms, and that your arms are pretty much straight before your body swings forwards.
When your arms and back are sorted, start by just bending your legs a TINY bit.
When that's well ingrained, bend your legs a bit more. It's really important to make sure your arms are straight and body is swung forward before you really bend your legs, or you'll end up doing the classic "gym monkey" thing where you have to lift the handle up to go over your knees. Bad bad bad
(It can be really tough to learn to maintain good body position as you start bending the legs more. Stick with it.)
Keep working your way forward, bending your knees a bit more, until you're as compressed as you can be (but never more so than the point at which your shins are vertical).
Keep reciting "legs body arms" as you push back, every time, until it's ingrained!!
3) Don't try and go fast, go HARD
You can get a perfectly tough workout by rating about 18 strokes per minute, and just pushing really, really hard.
There's zero reason to jack the rate up unless you're training for sprint racing or something.
Once you've got the technique locked in, your split (time per 500m) can easily be lower rating 18 than a gym monkey rating over 30. I can beat a lot of men in the gym, despite being lightweight rower size and a girl.
4) Consider other drills
Straight-arm rowing can be good for technique too. It's just legs body, body legs. It's a good way of emphasising the movement pattern in a slightly different way, which might help.
5) Check the drag factor
Not the damper setting on the side, go through the menu until you find "display drag setting" and make sure it's over 100. I favour about 115, big men go for around 130. If you can't get it that high, then you need to hoover the dust out of the fan! You can unscrew the side cover on the fan to get in there and clean it out.
If you have any more questions, just ask!
PS What you're doing is called bum-shoving in the UK, and shooting the slide in the US. It's so common in all kinds of rowing, that it has a name
It's called Persian *kitten*-rowing in my Women's only rowing club in Denmark. No, I don't know why. :-) But it cracked me up the first time I heard it.1 -
Also, I did this when I first started rowing, and I fixed it by concentrating on my legs only. Do not move your arms at all, until your legs are almost fully extended, and your hips have swiveled out to the 2 o'clock position. THEN pull in your arms for the last of the stroke. And the whole time, during the entire stroke, you are pushing HARD with your legs.
Just forget about the arms. Most of the work should be done with your legs, and then your abs/body.
Hope it helps!1
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