No change after 4 months of recomp - suggestions? How long does it take to see change?
abbynormalartist
Posts: 318 Member
I'm 33 years old, 5'6", female, approx 126lbs. I eat at maintenance at 1570 calories a day (open diary). I went from zero exercise a few months ago to lifting with the 5x5 program 3 days a week and doing some light cardio, usually for 15 minutes after lifting, occasionally for a 30 minute jog on rest days. I understand recomp takes a long time but I thought I'd see some sort of small measurable change by now since a few weeks ago I was a couch potato. My weight goes up and down a few lbs throughout the month but on average has stayed the same as before I started tracking and exercising. My waist, belly and hips are all measuring the same. Is it too soon to see change or do I need to do something different? I don't want to keep doing what I'm doing if I'm doing it wrong.
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In my opinion this is the issue with recomp. People have a tendency to spin their wheels and not make progress.
In my opinion: if you want to gain muscle, eat in a calorie surplus, if you want to lean up, you need a deficit.6 -
trigden1991 wrote: »In my opinion this is the issue with recomp. People have a tendency to spin their wheels and not make progress.
In my opinion: if you want to gain muscle, eat in a calorie surplus, if you want to lean up, you need a deficit.
I'd agree with this in regards to recomp being a deliberate act. I've always kinda viewed recomp as something that just happens over time when you're eating well and training...my body has changed quite a bit over the last 4.5 years, but recomp wasn't some deliberate thing I was trying to accomplish and taking measurements and whatnot...I was just done losing weight and no real interest in bulking so I've just been eating and training..
OP...it's taken years...I personally don't know that I would do recomp as a deliberate act of trying to achieve a certain physique...it's more of a long term bi-product IMO...9 -
Where are you in the 5x5 program? Are you still adding weight comfortably on all your lifts by chance?0
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have you gone in to have a body comp assessment done? recomp is slow
although 5'6"- IMHO 1570 potential sounds on a touch too low for maintenance (I'm 5'3", 148 and maintain on 2600ish)0 -
How many weeks into that 4 months when you hit the point the SL5x5 actually hit a difficult weight?
All that time was not a workout for your body - it had no need to make more muscle, and therefore use extra fat for energy source.
Depending on how long that was, some extra time is your body just using your existing muscle more effectively, and depending on how active and strong before (I see a kid in your pic!) - that could take a while too.
How many weeks into the 4 months did the failures start?
Also - since you can't spot lose - spot measuring is difficult to see results sometimes.
Some tightesh clothes work better that you try on every month as a test. Just don't wash them in hot water!2 -
How many weeks into that 4 months when you hit the point the SL5x5 actually hit a difficult weight?
I still can't lift very heavy so it didn't take long until the weight was difficult and I was unable to get through 5 reps and 5 sets.
Here are my current lifts (with good form):
Squat- 100lbs
OHP- 50lbs
Deadlift - 100lbs - (I'm sure I could go much heavier but I can't get my form right so I'm nervous to lift much this way)
Bench - 55lbs
Row - 55lbs
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Basically what everyone else said..
If you haven't been challenged by the 5x5 routine for long due to the slow increases at the start, you probably haven't been giving your muscles enough stimulus. - Ex - if it took 2 months to work up to challenging weight you've only had two months of challenging training. (One might also argue that SL isn't really an ideal program for recomping/muscle building either.)
Muscle building takes a really long time even when in a surplus. No surplus and that further reduces your progress.
I can't remember the exact source, but there was a podcast with Dr Mike Israetel where he basically said he's tried to 'recomp' and he thinks it's not the way to go. Massing and cutting yields much better results.2 -
goldthistime wrote: »Where are you in the 5x5 program? Are you still adding weight comfortably on all your lifts by chance?
Occasionally adding but not on all lifts. I've been at the same weights for a few weeks now.0 -
So a few weeks is perhaps the time scale of overloading the muscles.
And even then - form improvements will see increases not due to getting stronger.
And even then - getting stronger will see increases not due to gaining muscle.
Ditto to 5x5 meant to overload you fast and increase strength, and of course some muscle growth.
Will also give you some numbers to work with when converted to other rep ranges and total working weight - to use in other programs that are better range for Time Under Tension weekly.
Adjusting Squat and DL to Working weight.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/Workload.html
Adjusting 5 reps to 1RM for use in other programs.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
But keep at it until totally tapped out - and form feels right - since many reps and short sets, can help to do that easier.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »In my opinion this is the issue with recomp. People have a tendency to spin their wheels and not make progress.
In my opinion: if you want to gain muscle, eat in a calorie surplus, if you want to lean up, you need a deficit.
Yeah, this^ is happening.
5x5 is good for strength gains, but you don't actually build much muscle. Make no mistake it's great and stick with it, but you will make faster progress with a cut/bulk cycle and you may want to change your training up to include more sets of less intensity with higher reps. Might want to change from 5x5 with 80-90% 1RM to 5x10 with 60-70% 1RM and add some isolation exercises for those muscles you really want to grow.
The article below is a great place to start if you'd like to try to make your program more tailored to growth. https://renaissanceperiodization.com/training-volume-landmarks-muscle-growth/
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All of the above, plus TAKE PICTURES!! My waist and hip measurements didn't change very much at all when my body fat changed significantly over a few years. Stuff just moved around or something. I look different in pictures.3
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To recap some of what others said that I agree with:
1. Recomp is a long term thing. Four months is nothing in recomp. For a woman four months is nothing for lean mass gains period.
2. Some people, like me, do not respond well to strength programs. I have to follow hypertrophy programs.
3. Measure and take pictures.
I think you really need to decide what your short term and long term goals are. Honestly, recomp or bulk and cut is a long term strategy. Women gain about a pound of muscle per month under great conditions. That's really not much. Recomp takes a long time to look like you are making improvements. Bulking and cutting is going to be a similar time frame for results as recomp, but you'll feel like you are doing something productive. You have to accept that building muscle take time.1 -
You are still early on in weight training to expect much in terms of recomp. You, admittedly, are still working on form on some lifts. Recomp requires a couple of things. Patience and forcing adaptions by pushing volume and intensity (weight on the bar). Doesn't sound like you are there yet. So, expectations of much change would be unrealistic.0
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All of the above, plus TAKE PICTURES!! My waist and hip measurements didn't change very much at all when my body fat changed significantly over a few years. Stuff just moved around or something. I look different in pictures.
What CJ said. Pictures, pictures, pictures. Over a year's period I can see a change in pictures while my measurements have stayed the same or actually increased. Larger erector muscles increase my waist size and bigger booty = larger hip measurements.0 -
My stats are almost identical to yours, only difference is I do All Pro's programme instead of 5x5 (basically the same, with stuff like shin raises and an emphasis on muscle hypertrophy as I want/ need to build muscle mass). Oh and I use dumbells instead of barbells as I want to build up strength on my left side.
Started this in February. Noticed a change to my torso/ arms after six or so months as I store very little fat there and only just beginning to see a difference in my legs (store all my weight in my thighs, lol) a month or so ago. I lost a lot of muscle mass through what I guess is crash dieting.
Much like everyone else is saying, it takes time. My guess is 2 or so years of progressive lifting before people really get the results they're after.2 -
Do you have progress pictures? Have you increased the weight you're lifting or the reps? Is the weight you're lifting getting any easier? All these are progress in my book.
I didn't think my body had changed much until I took progress pics at 9 months. I'm no wonder woman, but that's not my goal, so I'm happy.1 -
All of the above, plus TAKE PICTURES!! My waist and hip measurements didn't change very much at all when my body fat changed significantly over a few years. Stuff just moved around or something. I look different in pictures.
op, since you're already 126lb at 5'6" i think this is probably even more true. not that recomp is an expertise zone for me or anything, but basically it doesn't seem to me like your individual measurements can have anywhere much to go. that was my experience of doing 5x5 on a deficit while also weighing mid-to-low 120's, a few years ago (at 5'3").
to put things in perspective, i was told that even without the deficit and very mindful eating, most women should only realistically expect to gain about a pound of muscle a month in their first year of lifting. so 'a few months' in your case might amount to a few pounds of muscle . . . and actually, if you look up the physics muscle isn't THAT much more dense than fat. i think five pounds of muscle takes up about the same space on your body as four pounds of fat. those visuals were pretty misleading (at least for me).
all this means you might 'look like' you've lost a pound at this point (assuming you've just exchanged five pounds of muscle for five pounds of fat). and a pound is about half a litre, or two cups. so idk if that makes sense to you, but it's the way that i worked it all out for myself after six months or so. i'm not trying to be discouraging, btw. my personal feeling was a little disappointment but it also felt like a relief because at least i had an explanation. and ymmv but personally i felt like i was arming myself psychologically with realism.
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My personal opinion on recomp is that it should be done by people with little fat to lose AND have been training for awhile (at least a year consistently).
If you need to gain size, then cut and bulk along with a hypertrophy program is what I usually recommend.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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My personal opinion on recomp is that it should be done by people with little fat to lose AND have been training for awhile (at least a year consistently).
If you need to gain size, then cut and bulk along with a hypertrophy program is what I usually recommend.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My concern about cutting and bulking vs recomp is the idea that as we age it's more difficult to build muscle. I worry that I may lose muscle during cuts and just gain fat during the bulks. Do you recommend bulk/cut cycles at any age? What if I'm 80? Or is there another criteria you could suggest, like "if you can't get to the gym 3 times a week, stick with recomp".
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The easiest way not to lose muscle while dropping weight is to get plenty of protein (around 1g/lb body weight will get you that plus some for satiety) and continue or start a structured lifting program and don't have your cut last longer than 4-6 months or so before maintenance for a bit. If you can do those three things, your going to be just fine.goldthistime wrote: »My personal opinion on recomp is that it should be done by people with little fat to lose AND have been training for awhile (at least a year consistently).
If you need to gain size, then cut and bulk along with a hypertrophy program is what I usually recommend.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My concern about cutting and bulking vs recomp is the idea that as we age it's more difficult to build muscle. I worry that I may lose muscle during cuts and just gain fat during the bulks. Do you recommend bulk/cut cycles at any age? What if I'm 80? Or is there another criteria you could suggest, like "if you can't get to the gym 3 times a week, stick with recomp".
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If your routine isn't giving you enough stimulus to force growth then switching from recomp to cut/bulk isn't going to change that. The cut part is only going to make it worse in the short term.
Building muscle is slow irrespective of calories unless you are a young male or on naughty drugs.
Patience is required. Build a foundation of technique and strength then consider a change of programming if hypertrophy is really your aim.
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goldthistime wrote: »My personal opinion on recomp is that it should be done by people with little fat to lose AND have been training for awhile (at least a year consistently).
If you need to gain size, then cut and bulk along with a hypertrophy program is what I usually recommend.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My concern about cutting and bulking vs recomp is the idea that as we age it's more difficult to build muscle. I worry that I may lose muscle during cuts and just gain fat during the bulks. Do you recommend bulk/cut cycles at any age? What if I'm 80? Or is there another criteria you could suggest, like "if you can't get to the gym 3 times a week, stick with recomp".
As a 66 year old, I just don't buy that the age thing is such a big factor. From the 20s to the 40s there is some drop off due to T levels but it's not that significant. Or at least it hasn't been for me. Maybe 10-15%. From the 40s to the 60s I dont' see that much difference at all. Maybe I'm just lucky with my genes and my T levels have always remained good for my age.2 -
If your routine isn't giving you enough stimulus to force growth then switching from recomp to cut/bulk isn't going to change that. The cut part is only going to make it worse in the short term.
Building muscle is slow irrespective of calories unless you are a young male or on naughty drugs.
Patience is required. Build a foundation of technique and strength then consider a change of programming if hypertrophy is really your aim.
All of this all day long! ^0 -
A few weeks back someone posted an article in this section about actual calories needed to build muscle. For women, under ideal conditions (calorie surplus, progressive heavy lifting, etc) a 1/4# muscle gain per week was cited. If I'm remembering correctly, the author proposed that while eating at maintenance and lifting, women might gain 1/8# muscle a week. Recomp is slow.1
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