gastric bypass
perkymommy
Posts: 1,642 Member
This is an honest question about gastric bypass. I'm not judging anyone who has had it done. I know someone who had this done some years ago and I'm not sure if it's the same as the gastric sleeve or not. But my friend who had this done can only eat a certain amount of food at a time or else he will get physically sick. So in my mind isn't that the same as doing MFP where we eat a certain amount of calories per day? A person could just not get gastric surgery of any kind and lose it on their own if they wanted to eat less just like they are forced to do once getting the surgery right? It doesn't make sense to me. Also, in order to get this surgery many people have to lose some weight beforehand and they are successful losing the pre-surgery weight. I may be missing something but based on what my friend has told me I'm not. He said if he could go back he wouldn't get surgery at all and could have done it on his own by simply choosing not to eat so much in each sitting like he used to do before the surgery. He just can't do it now or else he gets sick and throws up.
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You are correct.
The big BUT is that peole cannot help or control themselves. The surgery is a tool that facilitates this.10 -
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The big difference being that the surgery adds an extra physical cue for fullness. Some people really do need the negative feedback that being ill provides to prevent themselves from overeating. It's a tool for those who tend to have serious problems with overeating. There's a reason why it's not recommended expect in extreme circumstances.9
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There are some metabolic changes that come with the bypass. For instance, I had a near immediate cessation of T2 diabetes, which cannot be explained by weight loss alone. There are known malabsorption issues; folic acid, calcium, Vitamin D and Iron as a good part of the small intestine is bypassed. Ghrelin levels change as well.
The weight loss clinic I was associated with, which has years of data, finds that people who lose by diet alone eventually gain all the weight back in the next year. With the surgery, the loss continues and remains for years longer.15 -
By the way, the smaller stomach does limit how much I can eat at a sitting, and I also cannot drink liquids with my meal (It's one or the other). For instance, I can eat a Big Mac except for the last bite. The last bite gets thrown out.2
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I've seen the good and bad of the surgery in my family, but each person was extremely sick beforehand. Could they have done it on their own? Obviously, in theory, anyone can. But they wouldn't have. That's the point. You're saying they could just eat less, but people often die of their failure to do just that. I'd rather have the person alive and in my life than worry about whether they should have done things the way I think they should be done. If it results in improved health and quality of life, then why does it matter how they got there?8
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I am actually going through the steps to become a candidate for weight loss surgery. Not sure if I am going to do the sleeve or bypass yet, but I do believe that if the surgery is going to be successful you have to make a full lifestyle change before the surgery. I am in counseling due to a traumatic past, but that has not led to me over eating. I don't eat when I'm sad or depressed or angry, that actually takes my appetite away. I have a legitimate medical issue that has caused me to gain weight. From 2010-2012 I lost 100 pounds on mfp. I kept that off for two years and then lost an additional 40 pounds after I left my ex husband. I kept it all off until about 10 months ago when I started gaining back out of nowhere. Same eating habits. Nothing different. Except that I had just come off of depo for the second time. And for the second time it triggered pcos. I've been trying for over 7 months with my doctor to get it back in control. 7 months ago I started researching weight loss surgery. I have at this point cut calories from 1600 a day to 1250 a day. I dropped the two pops a week I used to drink. I've lost 12 pounds in the last month. I'm joining a fitness group at the counseling place I go to (community mental health). I take daily walks with my boyfriend or on my own when he's working. I'm getting an exercise bike from my parents basement and bringing it home. And everything is being supervised and supported by my doctor and friends and family because they see how serious I am about all of this.
My disease I have? Polycystic ovarian syndrome. And this will put it into permanent remission. As long as I do what I'm supposed to be doing, I will be successful and stay successful. I'm also taking 25 mg of topamax for weight loss and headache control. I'm working my butt off.
This surgery is not a quick fix. You have to commit to the changes for life. I'm a very stubborn and determined person though. The people who go through with the surgery and don't succeed, they just weren't committed to the changes they had to make for the rest of their lives.
I know someone who went through the gastric sleeve surgery. She lost her weight and two years ago she had a baby. She has never lost the baby weight and has gained most of the weight back because she never changed the way she ate. She was complaining from the start that she couldn't eat what she wanted to anymore. I have done a week so far as trial for what it's going to be like after surgery. I didn't find it to be too hard. I have 28 more pounds to lose in the next 5 months to qualify for surgery. The requirement is 15% of your body weight so you can prove you're committed to making the changes necessary.
The reason I posted this is to show that not everyone who is trying to get weight loss surgery has poor eating habits. Some have actual problems that caused them to gain massive amounts of weight in a short amount of time. I gained back 120 pounds in under 7 months. I had gotten down to 220 and gained back to 339.9 which was my weight on July 5th when I started.14 -
Much the same could be said about vaping, hypnosis and nicotine patches to help smokers give up. Whatever a person nerds to help them kick their bad habit is okay by me. No one is superior because they lost weight/stopped smoking by sheer will power alone.11
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There are some metabolic changes that come with the bypass. For instance, I had a near immediate cessation of T2 diabetes, which cannot be explained by weight loss alone. There are known malabsorption issues; folic acid, calcium, Vitamin D and Iron as a good part of the small intestine is bypassed. Ghrelin levels change as well.
The weight loss clinic I was associated with, which has years of data, finds that people who lose by diet alone eventually gain all the weight back in the next year. With the surgery, the loss continues and remains for years longer.
the last part I would love to see the studies on this...as I know for a fact that appx 20% of the people who lose weight keep it off (based on studies I have read and a thread in this section)
and to say that WLS the loss remains is not correct either...50% put the weight back on...
Weight regain was observed within 24 months after surgery in approximately 50% of patients. Both weight regain and surgical failure were higher in the superobese group. Studies in regard to metabolic and hormonal mechanisms underlying weight regain might elucidate the causes of this finding.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/183929073 -
Lgcoulter33 wrote: »I am actually going through the steps to become a candidate for weight loss surgery. Not sure if I am going to do the sleeve or bypass yet, but I do believe that if the surgery is going to be successful you have to make a full lifestyle change before the surgery. I am in counseling due to a traumatic past, but that has not led to me over eating. I don't eat when I'm sad or depressed or angry, that actually takes my appetite away. I have a legitimate medical issue that has caused me to gain weight. From 2010-2012 I lost 100 pounds on mfp. I kept that off for two years and then lost an additional 40 pounds after I left my ex husband. I kept it all off until about 10 months ago when I started gaining back out of nowhere. Same eating habits. Nothing different. Except that I had just come off of depo for the second time. And for the second time it triggered pcos. I've been trying for over 7 months with my doctor to get it back in control. 7 months ago I started researching weight loss surgery. I have at this point cut calories from 1600 a day to 1250 a day. I dropped the two pops a week I used to drink. I've lost 12 pounds in the last month. I'm joining a fitness group at the counseling place I go to (community mental health). I take daily walks with my boyfriend or on my own when he's working. I'm getting an exercise bike from my parents basement and bringing it home. And everything is being supervised and supported by my doctor and friends and family because they see how serious I am about all of this.
My disease I have? Polycystic ovarian syndrome. And this will put it into permanent remission. As long as I do what I'm supposed to be doing, I will be successful and stay successful. I'm also taking 25 mg of topamax for weight loss and headache control. I'm working my butt off.
This surgery is not a quick fix. You have to commit to the changes for life. I'm a very stubborn and determined person though. The people who go through with the surgery and don't succeed, they just weren't committed to the changes they had to make for the rest of their lives.
I know someone who went through the gastric sleeve surgery. She lost her weight and two years ago she had a baby. She has never lost the baby weight and has gained most of the weight back because she never changed the way she ate. She was complaining from the start that she couldn't eat what she wanted to anymore. I have done a week so far as trial for what it's going to be like after surgery. I didn't find it to be too hard. I have 28 more pounds to lose in the next 5 months to qualify for surgery. The requirement is 15% of your body weight so you can prove you're committed to making the changes necessary.
The reason I posted this is to show that not everyone who is trying to get weight loss surgery has poor eating habits. Some have actual problems that caused them to gain massive amounts of weight in a short amount of time. I gained back 120 pounds in under 7 months. I had gotten down to 220 and gained back to 339.9 which was my weight on July 5th when I started.
the bolded items don't match what you said in another thread...
so what is it? 120 or 140lbs? 2 sodas or 1, 1400 or 1600 or 1250 or 1200 calories???
and if you were researching WLS 7 months ago why? you weren't heavy then? in the other thread it was 9 months
not to be whatever but when stories don't match people notice so perhaps you can explain the variances.....4 -
Anyone can lose weight by changing their food and exercising, so why are so many people obese? Because weight needs to be dealt with on a deeper level. Emotional issues, physical issues, economic issues etc. and once your weight is increased, it tells your body that you need more and more, and it takes a lot to run a bigger body, thus, they genuinely are hungrier. The surgery removes the ability to overeat (unless you stretch it) and that gives you time to drop weight rapidly, deal with your emotional issues, and get back to a size where you can exercise again. Those that fail the surgery do so because they didnt utilise the opportunity. Weight Loss surgery is not easy as many think. Its actually a lot of work every day, for the rest of your life. The people that regret the surgery are the ones who expect the surgery to do all the work. It doesnt. Its a tool, and it needs a handyman to use it properly.7
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Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival9
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moogie_fit wrote: »Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival
Nonsense! Please cite your sources.5 -
moogie_fit wrote: »Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival
except when it isn't
except when people lose the weight just being in a calorie deficit by eating less and/or moving more.
except when it fails4 -
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moogie_fit wrote: »Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival
Nonsense! Please cite your sources.
Cite me. Cite the people who have had it and successfully maintained their weight loss and their health.3 -
" isn't that the same as doing MFP where we eat a certain amount of calories per day? A person could just not get gastric surgery of any kind and lose it on their own if they wanted to eat less just like they are forced to do once getting the surgery right?"
If it was that easy would any of us be here? Would any of us be fat or struggling with our weight or counting calories or exercising so hard or looking for support? The resounding answer is NO.
Your friend is just one person. His experiences certainly do not mirror everyone's. I had it six years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. I would recommend it and I would do it all over again. It is a TOOL just like any other, it just happens to be an excellent tool. Does it work for everyone? No. If you misuse it, will it still work? No. Just like Paleo and low/no carb and pescatarian and vegan diets don't work for everyone. I work out harder than anyone I know, I eat healthier than anyone I know. I wouldn't be who I am today, healthwise, if it wasn't for the bypass.
MFP is a touchy place to bring up bypass surgery because a lot of people think it's cheating. I've come to the conclusion that those people are most likely the ones who couldn't afford it or whose insurance wouldn't cover it or who just gave up because the process to get approved was more than they were willing to go through to lead healthier lifestyles. Jealousy is an ugly thing and can and will manifest itself in 'concern' over someone else's choices.
And fyi, a lot of people who get sick fail to tell the entire story of why they got sick. Not following the doctor's orders, eating and drinking what they're not supposed to be eating and drinking, etc. People like to shift blame and play the victim too much to take them at face value.7 -
moogie_fit wrote: »Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival
Nonsense! Please cite your sources.
Cite me. Cite the people who have had it and successfully maintained their weight loss and their health.
The 'nonsense' I think was regarding the claim of it being the "ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term". I'm sure many people have success long term with surgery, but it is certainly not the only way. If it is, it would be great to see evidence (good quality medical studies) that support that claim.5 -
scarlett_k wrote: »moogie_fit wrote: »Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival
Nonsense! Please cite your sources.
Cite me. Cite the people who have had it and successfully maintained their weight loss and their health.
The 'nonsense' I think was regarding the claim of it being the "ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term". I'm sure many people have success long term with surgery, but it is certainly not the only way. If it is, it would be great to see evidence (good quality medical studies) that support that claim.
Yes, thank you. Many, many people have been successful losing weight and keeping it off using WLS, but it's emphatically not the only way to fight obesity long term.3 -
Thanks for the insight everyone and for keeping the conversation civil.3
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scarlett_k wrote: »The 'nonsense' I think was regarding the claim of it being the "ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term". I'm sure many people have success long term with surgery, but it is certainly not the only way. If it is, it would be great to see evidence (good quality medical studies) that support that claim.
Yes, thank you. Many, many people have been successful losing weight and keeping it off using WLS, but it's emphatically not the only way to fight obesity long term.
I completely agree. WLS is a tool that is effective for many people, but it is certainly not the ONLY effective method and certainly not always the best method for everyone. Further, as SezxyStef pointed out, the success rate with WLS isn't 100% either, and there are patients who gain their weight back in 5 years just like those who used diet and exercise. The difference for both WLS patients and the dieters is that they went into it looking at it as a temporary fix instead of a permanent lifestyle change. They allowed old habits to creep back in, and in time, the body can adapt to the increased food intake.
I've seen successful surgeries and stories, and I've seen not-so-successful ones. I think its a shame, though, that WLS is being pushed so hard and heavy these days as a first option. In many cases, it comes down to money and not what is the patient's best interest, and the amount of propganda surrounding it is overwhelming. It's very hard to find honest evaluations of long term effects of WLS surgery, what it does to the body 10, 20, 30 years later and especially for the newer types. The big bad these days is obesity and the medical world seems to think any is better so are quick to push new things to fight it, like a lot of the new weight loss drugs. We've seen this knee-jerk kind of response in the past, and the results in later years are not always pretty; things that were pushed as healthy and good turned out to not be that at all and resulted in a lot of heartache. For example: research the drug thalidomide.
I'm not knocking the surgery . I have a cousin who had it down about 10 years ago, and it changed her life. She dealt with a lot of complications because of it, but she has managed to keep the weight off. My sister in law had it done last year and has lost 200 lbs, but I honestly don't see her being a long term success story because she had the surgery done more for vanity reasons than anything else, and now, a year later, she's not following the diet she is supposed to be following, she's drinking way too much alcohol, and she refuses to exercise. In short, she's already learning to cheat the system, and it's going to backfire on her.
My brother had it done today. He's a fit guy, exercises a lot, and he's very dedicated and regimented. However, he had trouble in the past sticking to a diet and so he tended to gain his weight back. I disagree with his decision to have the surgery at this point in his life, but it is his life and his body and his choice. However, I know that he has a better chance at being one of the success stories because of his dedication, unlike his wife.
I have another cousin who is going through the process now to have it done, and I'm on the fence as to whether or not its going to be successful for her. On the one hand, it may truly be her last option, but on the other, she's not a really dedicated person and she's surrounded by people who are not very supportive of her, so I don't know if it will work for her long term or not.
I've also had friends and acquaintances that had the surgery done in the past and wished they hadn't done it. Others folks had such a positive experience that they are quick to try to push it onto everyone.
My concerns with it are this: its a radical, permanent thing you are doing to your body. It has to be approached as a lifestyle change - a permanent one, and it has to be understood that it is in no way the "easy" way out. I personally think a person should actively pursue all other options first and that WLS should truly be a last resort - not the first thing a doctor suggests to a patient. However, if a person's life is in immediate danger because of their weight, if they have serious medical conditions and have tried other methods to lose weight and fail, then WLS may be the answer they need. But please do the research, and not just focusing on the success stories or the propaganda that is out there on it. There are serious side effects and permanent health concerns that you need to understand before considering it. Make sure you know all the facts - both the good and the ugly - and go into it informed. Just browse after surgery websites and bariatric cookbooks to see how complicated it can be, especially the first stages after the surgery. Talk to those who have had it done and see what their daily routine has to be, and then decide if this is a lifestyle you can live with.
Then, if you and your doctor agree this is the option for you, go for it! It can be radically life changing! Just understand its in no way easy. In any case, I'm not trying to knock those who have done it - I congratulate those who've done it and been successful. What I am standing against, however, are those who think that WLS is the great obesity panacea these days and who try to push it onto everyone. Weight loss is not a once size fits all kind of thing - its very individual, and each person needs to find a method that will work for them personally and will result in a lifestyle they can maintain, because we as humans rarely ever succeed in forcing ourselves to do things we hate for very long.
For me personally, WLS is not an option I want to take. I've done my research and just do not believe its the kind of commitment I want to make. For me, calorie counting works and I prefer the freedom it leaves me. If, when I'm older, I develop health issues and other methods fail, I might consider it, but not at this point in my life.
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I'm going through the process now to get weight loss surgery. For 6 months I have to prove that I can either maintain or loose weight. They want to see the lifestyle changes now that I will need post surgery. There is no way weight loss surgery is easy. You loose hair, your on vitamins the rest of your life, you can't eat and drink at the same time. Life is really different and you have to be very regimented in order to keep your stomach small. The only thing surgery does is restrict the amount of calories your body consumes. Some people just can't do this on their own, and weight loss surgery is a TOOL. It's important to remember that it's a tool because it is possible to stretch the stomach out again with previous bad habits. Knowing all the pros and cons, I am leaning towards not getting the surgery and giving calorie counting one last go. Like a previous poster said, why go through a permanent change if you don't have too.1
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moogie_fit wrote: »Gastric bypass surgery is the ONLY medically proven way to fight obesity long term. It is life changing AND necessary for some people. A lot of ppl with it end up having to supplement with ensure or other high calorie options and cannot eat 'real' food anymore. But this is the price some must pay for their lives and survival
First, no, many people do lose weight through lifestyle changes and keep it off. But also weight loss surgery is a medical intervention so it is studied medically. People who simply decide to give MFP a try, without their doctor even suggesting it (like in my case) aren't being studied, unless we seek out the weight loss registry. Nobody has studied other ways someone might lose a lot of weight--such as moving to a new location where there is less junk food, more physical activity, and more social support... or whatever... Nobody has done a medical study on the hand-slapping-diet where someone slaps your hand whenever you reach for more food... I know those are silly examples. But if it's not studied, then it's an unknown quantity in terms of medical studies, but other things, people here, the weight loss registry, etc support that people can maintain weight loss over the long-term.2 -
I'm going through the process now to get weight loss surgery. For 6 months I have to prove that I can either maintain or loose weight. They want to see the lifestyle changes now that I will need post surgery. There is no way weight loss surgery is easy. You loose hair, your on vitamins the rest of your life, you can't eat and drink at the same time. Life is really different and you have to be very regimented in order to keep your stomach small. The only thing surgery does is restrict the amount of calories your body consumes. Some people just can't do this on their own, and weight loss surgery is a TOOL. It's important to remember that it's a tool because it is possible to stretch the stomach out again with previous bad habits. Knowing all the pros and cons, I am leaning towards not getting the surgery and giving calorie counting one last go. Like a previous poster said, why go through a permanent change if you don't have too.
Thank you! Well said, and I wish you the best of luck, whether or not you go ahead with the surgery!0
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