Thinking about doing a bulk and cut - how long for each and how much do I adjust calories?
abbynormalartist
Posts: 318 Member
I've been re-comping for about 5 months and not seeing much progress, though that was expected. I was mostly trying to get my diet in a good healthy place (good bye pounds of chocolate) and get comfortable with a work out routine. I'm currently eating at maintenance, around 1600 calories, and working out about 3 times a week with the 5x5 strong lifts program (though I've recently starting adding some additional body weight exercise to that).
Now that I'm feeling more comfortable with my diet and exercise plan, I'd like to work towards making some aesthetic changes. I'm thinking of eating at a small surplus to gain some muscle, then to do a small cut afterwards. But, I'm not sure how much of a surplus/deficit and for how long. Do I eat an extra 200 calories for a month? 500 extra for 3 months? I have no clue what I'm doing!
I'm 33 years old, female, about 127lbs, eating at maintenance at 1600 calories. I was normally about 122lbs but have gained a few pounds after I upped my calories to 1800 for a couple of months. I have a sit down job and a long commute and I lift weights (almost) every other day.
Now that I'm feeling more comfortable with my diet and exercise plan, I'd like to work towards making some aesthetic changes. I'm thinking of eating at a small surplus to gain some muscle, then to do a small cut afterwards. But, I'm not sure how much of a surplus/deficit and for how long. Do I eat an extra 200 calories for a month? 500 extra for 3 months? I have no clue what I'm doing!
I'm 33 years old, female, about 127lbs, eating at maintenance at 1600 calories. I was normally about 122lbs but have gained a few pounds after I upped my calories to 1800 for a couple of months. I have a sit down job and a long commute and I lift weights (almost) every other day.
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Replies
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Personally, I don't think SL 5x5 is an optimal program for recomp.. (or bulking, for that matter)
Have you considered anything more tailored to hypertrophy, if that is your goal? (Strong Curves is a popular one that comes to mind.)1 -
not_a_runner wrote: »Personally, I don't think SL 5x5 is an optimal program for recomp.. (or bulking, for that matter)
Have you considered anything more tailored to hypertrophy, if that is your goal? (Strong Curves is a popular one that comes to mind.)
Agree. Stronglifts is a beginner program. If you're comfortable with the program, and looking to add accessories, it's probably time to switch to an intermediate program.
As for your bulk and cut, I'd personally wait and keep working on recomp with a more advanced lifting program.2 -
There are many ways to do it. I've heard that slow bulks and slow cuts are not as efficient but I do it that way because honestly I'm afraid to gain too much at once. For instance, starting at Thanksgiving of 2016 I moved from maintenance to +100-200 calories over maintenance (I weighed 178 at the time, I'm 6'2" tall). I stayed that way all winter until around the end of February. During that time I changed things up, did more strength training (for me it's still body weight only, I cannot lift heavy due to permanent back issues) in the form of circuit training. I managed to gain some muscle and also managed to gain about 12 lbs give or take some water weight. I switched at the first of March to maintenance again, increased my cardio by adding in running 4x a week, and slowly started to see a drop of maybe 1-2 lbs until the end of August. I then switched to roughly a 1lb/wk deficit rate until Thanksgiving or until I get down to about 180ish lbs. Honestly I may not get down that low this time (I was at 178 Thanksgiving of 2016) because of the added muscle, and I don't really want to lose anything I gained so I'll be honest, I eat a little more than I should some days to keep the loss rate low. I intend to switch to a slight bulk again this winter as long as it doesn't put me in the overweight range.
Building muscle, at least for me, is super slow. I've heard it also depends on genetics. There are two types of people in my family, big ones and lean ones. The lean ones don't have a ton of muscle but have very little body fat. The big ones have a lot of body fat, and a lot of muscle at the same time. I'm trying to be lean but want slightly more muscle than the leaner types in my family. Dunno if it's possible but I'm trying. Don't expect to gain it all in one bulk/cut session. Also, expect that cut to be tough because you'll be used to the increased volume of food/calories and it'll seem like it's so much harder to get back into a deficit (was for me). Expect to gain some fat along with it as well which is why people cut after a bulk.
The other option is to just stay at your maintenance calories and increase exercise, not to create a deficit, but to increase muscle. For instance if you do an extra 200 calories of exercise beyond what you normally do, be sure to eat back that 200 calories to stay even with maintenance calories. I'm right at about 500 days since I hit my weight loss goals. I'm still under my original goal by about 4 lbs which makes me happy, but I'm about six pounds above where I was at Thanksgiving 2016. It's not necessarily a bad thing though, I can definitely see the muscle I've built in the mirror. I just want to get a bit leaner before Thanksgiving.1 -
not_a_runner wrote: »Personally, I don't think SL 5x5 is an optimal program for recomp.. (or bulking, for that matter)
Have you considered anything more tailored to hypertrophy, if that is your goal? (Strong Curves is a popular one that comes to mind.)
I looked at Strong Curves a few months ago and it was a little overwhelming. A ton of different exercises, a lot of body weight moves and just things I'm nervous about doing at the gym. The appeal to 5x5 has been how simple and straight forward it is, as well as the app feature. Also, I lift at a power lifting gym, so I've just gotten comfortable at the squat rack with the dudes. I'm a tad nervous doing hip thrusts and planks in front of the bros. That's all in my head and I've got to get over it. I think you're absolutely right about trying a new program.0 -
abbynormalartist wrote: »not_a_runner wrote: »Personally, I don't think SL 5x5 is an optimal program for recomp.. (or bulking, for that matter)
Have you considered anything more tailored to hypertrophy, if that is your goal? (Strong Curves is a popular one that comes to mind.)
I looked at Strong Curves a few months ago and it was a little overwhelming. A ton of different exercises, a lot of body weight moves and just things I'm nervous about doing at the gym. The appeal to 5x5 has been how simple and straight forward it is, as well as the app feature. Also, I lift at a power lifting gym, so I've just gotten comfortable at the squat rack with the dudes. I'm a tad nervous doing hip thrusts and planks in front of the bros. That's all in my head and I've got to get over it. I think you're absolutely right about trying a new program.
Strong Curves does have a lot of "butt stuff" haha. There are lots of programs out there though, that was just one example which I know is popular among the ladies here.
It can definitely be overwhelming trying to learn so many new exercises. Don't be afraid to ask someone at the gym if you have questions. The powerlifting dudes will most likely not care about you doing some hip thrusts or anything else. I've found those guys to be the most helpful at my gym.
I agree with @quiksylver296 though, I would stick with recomp for now while you navigate a more advanced program.
Maybe start adding some more calories in slowly in hopes of getting your maintenance cals a bit higher over time, but I wouldn't worry about bulking right now.1 -
Here's a pretty comprehensive list of strength programs, Abby. Look through the intermediate ones, and see if you find one that you might like. I liked Layne Norton's PH3, personally.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p10 -
As others said, I would look into different programs (Strong Curves is great but it is not for everyone, lots of other amazing programs out there.. see which one speaks to you in the link above and works with what you love to do)
Now, you said your weight but not your height. Do you know your bodyfat%? If you want to bulk, you want to be at least 20% or below ideally (now there are exceptions of course but this is the typical recommendation). Bulking can be a very uncomfortable process, if you still have fat to lose, it really only gets worse (especially in the trouble spots) and you are more likely to gain fat vs muscle. So you can either stay at recomp or cut down a bit more (depending on your height/weight of course)
I also agree about spending some time in maintenance to get used to a program before jumping in. Then if you are ready to bulk, I would aim for 0.5lb gain per week (so 250cals above maintenance, or a bit less if you want to be more conservative with the gain) .. how long you go is up to you, typical bulks last anywhere from 4 months+ to get the most out of it. As for cutting, typically you will spend about half the time cutting as you do bulking (again, many exceptions here, some people like to lose a bit faster.. but that is the general rule I've heard).5 -
As others said, I would look into different programs (Strong Curves is great but it is not for everyone, lots of other amazing programs out there.. see which one speaks to you in the link above and works with what you love to do)
Now, you said your weight but not your height. Do you know your bodyfat%? If you want to bulk, you want to be at least 20% or below ideally (now there are exceptions of course but this is the typical recommendation). Bulking can be a very uncomfortable process, if you still have fat to lose, it really only gets worse (especially in the trouble spots) and you are more likely to gain fat vs muscle. So you can either stay at recomp or cut down a bit more (depending on your height/weight of course)
I also agree about spending some time in maintenance to get used to a program before jumping in. Then if you are ready to bulk, I would aim for 0.5lb gain per week (so 250cals above maintenance, or a bit less if you want to be more conservative with the gain) .. how long you go is up to you, typical bulks last anywhere from 4 months+ to get the most out of it. As for cutting, typically you will spend about half the time cutting as you do bulking (again, many exceptions here, some people like to lose a bit faster.. but that is the general rule I've heard).
Great advice here^3 -
As others said, I would look into different programs (Strong Curves is great but it is not for everyone, lots of other amazing programs out there.. see which one speaks to you in the link above and works with what you love to do)
Now, you said your weight but not your height. Do you know your bodyfat%? If you want to bulk, you want to be at least 20% or below ideally (now there are exceptions of course but this is the typical recommendation). Bulking can be a very uncomfortable process, if you still have fat to lose, it really only gets worse (especially in the trouble spots) and you are more likely to gain fat vs muscle. So you can either stay at recomp or cut down a bit more (depending on your height/weight of course)
I also agree about spending some time in maintenance to get used to a program before jumping in. Then if you are ready to bulk, I would aim for 0.5lb gain per week (so 250cals above maintenance, or a bit less if you want to be more conservative with the gain) .. how long you go is up to you, typical bulks last anywhere from 4 months+ to get the most out of it. As for cutting, typically you will spend about half the time cutting as you do bulking (again, many exceptions here, some people like to lose a bit faster.. but that is the general rule I've heard).
I'm about 5'6". As for bodyfat, the little hand held scanner thing we have at work shows me ranging 18-21% over the last 6 months.
After reading all of the advice, I think I'll stay at maintenance for awhile and switch up my routine and see how that goes after a few more months. Thank you all!
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Have you stalled at your lifts?
I highly suggest squeezing out every bit of progress before moving onto a intermediate program.
Though it's pretty well known I'm not fond of SL for optimal progress as a beginner program, though I do suggest you run it out if you haven't stalled with every option available.
If you can still gain, there is no reason to move to a intermediate program that is based for slower progression.1 -
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abbynormalartist wrote: »As others said, I would look into different programs (Strong Curves is great but it is not for everyone, lots of other amazing programs out there.. see which one speaks to you in the link above and works with what you love to do)
Now, you said your weight but not your height. Do you know your bodyfat%? If you want to bulk, you want to be at least 20% or below ideally (now there are exceptions of course but this is the typical recommendation). Bulking can be a very uncomfortable process, if you still have fat to lose, it really only gets worse (especially in the trouble spots) and you are more likely to gain fat vs muscle. So you can either stay at recomp or cut down a bit more (depending on your height/weight of course)
I also agree about spending some time in maintenance to get used to a program before jumping in. Then if you are ready to bulk, I would aim for 0.5lb gain per week (so 250cals above maintenance, or a bit less if you want to be more conservative with the gain) .. how long you go is up to you, typical bulks last anywhere from 4 months+ to get the most out of it. As for cutting, typically you will spend about half the time cutting as you do bulking (again, many exceptions here, some people like to lose a bit faster.. but that is the general rule I've heard).
I'm about 5'6". As for bodyfat, the little hand held scanner thing we have at work shows me ranging 18-21% over the last 6 months.
After reading all of the advice, I think I'll stay at maintenance for awhile and switch up my routine and see how that goes after a few more months. Thank you all!
Have a look at AllPro. It is a beginners hypertrophy, as opposed to strength, programme. It is in the list qwiksylver296 posted above.
Cheers, h.1 -
Have you stalled at your lifts?
I highly suggest squeezing out every bit of progress before moving onto a intermediate program.
Though it's pretty well known I'm not fond of SL for optimal progress as a beginner program, though I do suggest you run it out if you haven't stalled with every option available.
If you can still gain, there is no reason to move to a intermediate program that is based for slower progression.
Yes, I've maxed out. I did a small de-load a few weeks ago, thinking that if I worked back up I might get past my previous max weight, but I stalled at the same weight. Right now I'm lifting the same each week without moving up.
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abbynormalartist wrote: »Have you stalled at your lifts?
I highly suggest squeezing out every bit of progress before moving onto a intermediate program.
Though it's pretty well known I'm not fond of SL for optimal progress as a beginner program, though I do suggest you run it out if you haven't stalled with every option available.
If you can still gain, there is no reason to move to a intermediate program that is based for slower progression.
Yes, I've maxed out. I did a small de-load a few weeks ago, thinking that if I worked back up I might get past my previous max weight, but I stalled at the same weight. Right now I'm lifting the same each week without moving up.
All you lifts are stalled at same time or just presses?
Are you still doing body weight exercises?
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I also agree about spending some time in maintenance to get used to a program before jumping in. Then if you are ready to bulk, I would aim for 0.5lb gain per week (so 250cals above maintenance, or a bit less if you want to be more conservative with the gain) .. how long you go is up to you, typical bulks last anywhere from 4 months+ to get the most out of it. As for cutting, typically you will spend about half the time cutting as you do bulking (again, many exceptions here, some people like to lose a bit faster.. but that is the general rule I've heard).
I'll second that.. good advice.
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as for the length of bulk and cut cycles... Bulk until you hate yourself, then cut until you are happy with the results you see in the mirror.2
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abbynormalartist wrote: »Have you stalled at your lifts?
I highly suggest squeezing out every bit of progress before moving onto a intermediate program.
Though it's pretty well known I'm not fond of SL for optimal progress as a beginner program, though I do suggest you run it out if you haven't stalled with every option available.
If you can still gain, there is no reason to move to a intermediate program that is based for slower progression.
Yes, I've maxed out. I did a small de-load a few weeks ago, thinking that if I worked back up I might get past my previous max weight, but I stalled at the same weight. Right now I'm lifting the same each week without moving up.
All you lifts are stalled at same time or just presses?
Are you still doing body weight exercises?
All lifts are maxed out. And I've just started doing some body weight exercises and using some machines. I was getting a little bored with the same 5x5 lifts.0 -
abbynormalartist wrote: »abbynormalartist wrote: »Have you stalled at your lifts?
I highly suggest squeezing out every bit of progress before moving onto a intermediate program.
Though it's pretty well known I'm not fond of SL for optimal progress as a beginner program, though I do suggest you run it out if you haven't stalled with every option available.
If you can still gain, there is no reason to move to a intermediate program that is based for slower progression.
Yes, I've maxed out. I did a small de-load a few weeks ago, thinking that if I worked back up I might get past my previous max weight, but I stalled at the same weight. Right now I'm lifting the same each week without moving up.
All you lifts are stalled at same time or just presses?
Are you still doing body weight exercises?
All lifts are maxed out. And I've just started doing some body weight exercises and using some machines. I was getting a little bored with the same 5x5 lifts.
Boredom many times comes from stalling, not the lifts itself. If you start hitting PRs every session again, it may change your current funk.
You probably will benefit switching scheme to 8x3 for a few weeks and squeeze out some more novice gains. Oddly females get much more out of triples then males, and would be worth while.2 -
abbynormalartist wrote: »abbynormalartist wrote: »Have you stalled at your lifts?
I highly suggest squeezing out every bit of progress before moving onto a intermediate program.
Though it's pretty well known I'm not fond of SL for optimal progress as a beginner program, though I do suggest you run it out if you haven't stalled with every option available.
If you can still gain, there is no reason to move to a intermediate program that is based for slower progression.
Yes, I've maxed out. I did a small de-load a few weeks ago, thinking that if I worked back up I might get past my previous max weight, but I stalled at the same weight. Right now I'm lifting the same each week without moving up.
All you lifts are stalled at same time or just presses?
Are you still doing body weight exercises?
All lifts are maxed out. And I've just started doing some body weight exercises and using some machines. I was getting a little bored with the same 5x5 lifts.
Boredom many times comes from stalling, not the lifts itself. If you start hitting PRs every session again, it may change your current funk.
You probably will benefit switching scheme to 8x3 for a few weeks and squeeze out some more novice gains. Oddly females get much more out of triples then males, and would be worth while.
If her goals are aesthetic based rather than strength, don't you think she'd be better off going with a program more appropriate for those goals though?
From what she's shared here it sounds like she's more concerned with body composition than the weight she's lifting. (I don't see any mention about weight/strength, just wanting to recomp/look better.) While there's certainly benefit to heavy triples and sets of 5, it doesn't make sense to me to continue with SL when her goals don't really align..1
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